Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No Personal Air Vents On Most 777s?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13416 times:

How come the majority of 777s in service do not feature personal air vents? Yes, I know there are a few exceptions, such as Delta, Emirates, and Air Canada. However, the 777s that do feature them are a minority. I don't see the reason why Boeing would offer it as an option rather than as a standard feature. Some 757s and 767s also lack them, such as Delta's ex-ATA and ex-Gulf Air aircraft.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

Because they are very high up, and you are going to end up blowing air on your neighbors. That's my guess.

A lot of carriers don't put personal air on their widebody jets.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineATLflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13176 times:

I agree..I love having personal air vents...it is nice to air circulating..especially when you get on a hot plane in Summer!

Boeing better offer personal air vents on the 787!


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13169 times:

Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 2):
Boeing better offer personal air vents on the 787!

It's a customer option on other planes, but I do wonder if the 787 will have them as an option or if they will be done away with.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13150 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
It's a customer option on other planes, but I do wonder if the 787 will have them as an option or if they will be done away with.

The 787 is supposed to offer higher cabin humidity, and maybe more passengers prefer a more humid cabin over personal air vents. Still, I would like to see Boeing offer them on the 787, 747-8, and the 737RS.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 966 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12978 times:

Gasper air is an option on the 777 and an airline would have to request and pay for it. It adds significant weight with all the additional ducting etc. so most airlines don't add it in. On the 777, I doubt if you could reach it anyway from most seats while you were belted in. The 777 zonal control cabin is flow balanced and gaspers just throw off the flow and temp balance anyway.

I doubt you will see gasper air on the 787. The PSU's are high over your head and unreachable from anything but maybe a window seat. There is no bins in the center in business and first and you would have to stand on a seat to reach the PSU.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12974 times:

My guess is that it will stay a customer option... though they are so high that they are not convenient to redirect, would likely disturb other people... so unless they found a new place to put them, like in seat backs or something, they aren't really well workable on large, high ceilinged widebodies.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12949 times:

...come to think of it, no widebody I have ever been on has gasper system outlets above each seat

However, the 764 that I was on had very good airflow, so that makes up for this inconvenience


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12920 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 7):
However, the 764 that I was on had very good airflow, so that makes up for this inconvenience

Just to let you know, Delta's 767-400s have personal air vents, while Continental's do not.

BTW, I believe that the 767-400 uses the air circulation system of the 777, rather than the one used on older 767s.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25342 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12787 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
My guess is that it will stay a customer option... though they are so high that they are not convenient to redirect, would likely disturb other people... so unless they found a new place to put them, like in seat backs or something, they aren't really well workable on large, high ceilinged widebodies.

And on some widebodies without centerline overhead bins, air vents in the ceiling would be almost impossible to reach and adjust. And as mentioned by FlyDreamliner, on most widebodies the vents would be difficult to aim so they weren't blowing on a passenger next to you (and would require very strong airfllow to do much good).

Early DC-8s had Douglas-built "Palomar" seats with the air vents in the seatback. There was nothing overhead on early DC-8s as the reading light was at one end of the headrest facing forward and a second light aimed at the meal tray was in the seatback next to the air vent and call button. Emergency oxygen masks were also behind a drop-down panel in the seatback At front row seats the controls/masks were in the bulkhead facing you.

Many DC-10s, at least the early ones, not sure if all, also had air vents and oxygen masks in the seatbacks but reading lights were overhead (with controls in the armrest, along with the call button).

DL DC-8 photo from 1976 below with original Palomar seats. You can see the air vent, call button, and one of the two reading lights in the small panel at the end of each seatback. The oxygen mask is behind the large panel next to it. The main forward-facing reading light is at the end of each headrest on the opposite side of the rear-facing control panel.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ellis M. Chernoff



Other views of the DC-8 Palomar seats in following page from UA DC-8 introduction brochure dated 1958, the year before it went into service. Depending on your browser, it may or may not enlarge to be readable if you click on it. From airchive.com which has a lot of interesting memorabilia of this type.

http://www.airchive.com/Memorabilia/United/DC-8%20insert%20comp.jpg


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12636 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
Just to let you know, Delta's 767-400s have personal air vents, while Continental's do not.

Hmmm...I did not know DL fitted gasper system outlets above each seat in their 764s. I guess this makes up for the lack of PTVs in economy, as Hawaiian717 informed me earlier.


User currently offlineJholiiday From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

Yup - I was on a 764 about a year and a half ago, ATL-LAX-HNL, and it had vents - but they were hard to reach, I had to unbuckle and stand.

Quoting N231YE (Reply 10):
Hmmm...I did not know DL fitted gasper system outlets above each seat in their 764s. I guess this makes up for the lack of PTVs in economy, as Hawaiian717 informed me earlier.



-Please sign up for the National Marrow Donor Program Registry - Help Save a life (maybe mine!) marrow.org
User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11237 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Because they are very high up, and you are going to end up blowing air on your neighbors.

they're very noisy as well


User currently offlineATLflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11138 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 10):
Hmmm...I did not know DL fitted gasper system outlets above each seat in their 764s. I guess this makes up for the lack of PTVs in economy, as Hawaiian717 informed me earlier.

Some of Delta's 764s already have PTVs in economy and eventually all 764s will be fitted with PTVs. All of the 764s have personal air vents on Delta.


User currently offlineBN727 From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10936 times:

It's got to be rough sitting next to someone who's passing gas and have no personal air vent.

User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10745 times:

Many A330/340 aircraft also do not have personal air vents. I guess it is down to customer preference. From recent experience I noticed that BD and LX didn't have them on their A330/340 respectively. Personally I much prefer to have them.


Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2226 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9691 times:

I prefer the air vents for health reasons.

Five years ago, I was flying LX ORD-ZRH. The girl next to me had a horrible cold, and was coughing and wheezing throughout the flight. I adjusted the air vent to blow air in the area between us, in hopes of limiting the spread of germs from her coughing.

Even though my immune system was weakened because I'd been under extreme stress before the flight, and didn't sleep from 4 AM Minneapolis time until I got to my hotel room in Vevey, Switzerland the afternoon of the next day, I still didn't get a cold from my seatmate. Having fresh air from the air vents didn't save me from getting sick by itself, but I'm sure it definitely helped.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineC133 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9292 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Don't know about other airline's fleets, but American's DC-10s originally had small electric fan gaspers in the seatbacks. When they started burning up, away they went.


Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
User currently offlineLokey123 From Barbados, joined May 2006, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8986 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
but I do wonder if the 787 will have them as an option or if they will be done away with.

That is one thing that I was really disappointed about, alas, personal air vents will not be on the 787.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8635 times:

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 12):
they're very noisy as well

No they're not.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7931 times:

I have asked an Engineer once about the personal air vents.

He replied that they are not a core part of the system, in fact they hinder "engineered" airflow and for this reason manufacturer's prefer not to install them.

The temperature of the air coming out of the vent matches that of the rest of the cabin which is controlled by the crew. The positioning of inflow ducts (on the ceiling) and outflow ducts (usually at the intersection of the fuselage with the cabin floor) ensure that every part of the plane gets an "even" amount of air and that there are no places with stalled air.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7574 times:

I just poked my head into this thread and find it intriguing. The vast majority of my flying is US domestic flying, almost entirely on narrowbody aircraft that have personal air vents. A couple of weeks ago I went to Europe, and was startled to find no personal air vents on the Lufthansa A340-300 on the way home. I had no idea that so many airlines don't install them on jumbos.

FWIW, I much prefer having personal air vents. I needed to leave my window shade open in order to read, because the person in front of me laid their seatback in my lap for virtually the whole flight on a daytime flight. (Personal opinion: LH's A343 Y seatbacks recline way too much for the seat pitch. LH 744 Y was more reasonable) Their seatback blocked my personal reading light. The sun made me hot, and I wanted moving air. I don't care how well air is circulated in general, at times I want my own airflow. There were bins over both aisle and center seats, so vents would be practicable.

End of opinion. Again, an interesting thread.

Jim

[Edited 2007-04-10 19:37:23]


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineSdwranglers From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7574 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the L-1011 have a control unit for the gasper air vent installed into the controls on the seat armrest? I recall being on a Delta flight years ago and the control wasn't really working very well. The idea made sense considering the cabin height.

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7392 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 19):
Quoting Max777geek (Reply 12):
they're very noisy as well

No they're not.

Depends on the particular aircraft you are on. I've been on aircraft where they have been noisy, and some where they've almost whistled.

Quoting Sdwranglers (Reply 22):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the L-1011 have a control unit for the gasper air vent installed into the controls on the seat armrest? I recall being on a Delta flight years ago and the control wasn't really working very well. The idea made sense considering the cabin height.

The other problem is that air needs to move an awful long way to get from the ceiling down to you, and as a result, has to blow pretty hard to make it all the way down. In a claustrophobic CRJ or a stuffy DC-9, they are nice. I newer, airier, well ventilated aircraft, I don't even use mine.

If they are going to be used in widebodies, I think they need to be mounted in the seatbacks so they aren't an annoyance to people next to you.

Honestly, if the plane is well ventilated, I guess I just don't understand a need for them.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7067 times:

For people who are slightly claustrophobic (like myself). The illusion of having some control over your environment can be very calming, even if the gasper does not actually provide improved air quality. It's well proven that perception matters more than reality sometimes.


Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
25 Tugger : I agree 100%, the side with the sun on it can be much warmer to sit and the air is nice to have. I don't care what people say about "modern air circu
26 Type-Rated : I had that happen last Christmas! Some guy sitting next to me (who didn't even remotely understand English) kept breaking wind so loud the people acr
27 Gigneil : All UA 777s have personal air. NS
28 AsstChiefMark : I use vents to blow air in my face if someone rips a nice, juicy, dripping, wet fart. Having higher cabin humidity and no air vents will only enhance
29 N757KW : Yes, I remember DL L-1011s had those useless vents in the ceiling with the control in the arm rest, I think it was labeled as AIR. I remember hitting
30 Spoke2Spoke : I have also heard this. If the cabin is too hot or cold, the crew would be able to bring the temperature back across the aircraft to an acceptable le
31 Post contains images Tugger : As I noted earlier, a "comfortable temperature" is SUBJECTIVE on a personal level. What is cold to one person is too hot for someone else and just pe
32 JetJeanes : No center aisle on the 777 at Air Canada are built into the side panel on the seats, but are positined for me at my height it blows up my nose.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No DL DUS-ATL On April 9? posted Fri Apr 6 2007 17:43:05 by Cgnnrw
Why No Fare Codes Shown On AA.com Reservations? posted Wed Mar 7 2007 06:21:09 by TransWorldSTL
Why No CAT II/III On Rwy 09 At BRS? posted Thu Feb 22 2007 11:29:21 by Robertmalpass
Why No More Intl First On US posted Sat Dec 2 2006 01:58:02 by Boeing 747-311
Boeing 777 Personal Air Vents posted Thu Mar 2 2006 03:49:13 by ATLflyer
Why No MFE-EWR Service On CO? posted Thu Aug 25 2005 16:14:27 by MFEFlyer
Why No In-cabin Pets On WN? posted Thu Apr 7 2005 17:03:58 by Junction
Why No DFW-CLL Flights On March 11? posted Thu Mar 3 2005 20:34:18 by Ssides
Why No Below Cabin Galleys On Modern Widebodies? posted Thu Mar 3 2005 00:54:40 by Orion737
Why No More Air India In YYZ? posted Sat Apr 24 2004 17:08:46 by Flug