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Southwest: SFO Update  
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6986 times:

So passing through SFO this pass weekend I spoke with my friend at Air Canada. He told me that AC is moving to terminal 3 in October. This will be opening gates 21 and 23 for Southwest. Now I was of the understanding that these gates were Delta's, they were when I left 1 1/2 years ago. None the less, these will be WN gates, right across from Alaska's gates 2o,22, and 24. So initial operations out of 2 gates, WN could operates I'd guess 20 flights?

Any WN personal heard rumors on routes?

ASLAX


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6975 times:

What are the first routes expected to be? I can guess LAX, LAS, SEA, MDW, PHX...

User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6942 times:

They might have 1 HOU flight too, who knows.


Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6919 times:

LAS, SAN, PHX are locks I'd say.
Maybe MDW or DEN.
HOU is another good choice.
I'd really like to see a PVD flight, but I don't think that would happen for a while.

-Copa


User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

Being that UA's highest yield route out of SFO is BUR, I'd think that might be a viable choice. Initially, I'd guess on a 1XMDW, 1XHOU, 4XLAS, 6XLAX, 3XPHX, 5XBUR. Thinking about also what stations have the room for additional flights, SNA is maxxed out, so no SFO flights for them and I was thinking of maybe RNO flights to enable the pacific n.w connections but don't know if SWA really wants to head that way so quickly with their SFO reentry.

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6883 times:

I'd actually be surprised they would start SFO-LAX. This route is just so saturated as is. Now I do not rule out SoCal service, just not LAX. BUR would be my guess with only UA operating this segment.

My guess's"

SFO-/

BUR/SAN/PHX/MDW to start

*Hoping for HOU

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):
I'd actually be surprised they would start SFO-LAX. This route is just so saturated as is. Now I do not rule out SoCal service, just not LAX. BUR would be my guess with only UA operating this segment.

My guess's"

SFO-/

BUR/SAN/PHX/MDW to start

*Hoping for HOU

ASLAX

Got to agree with that. Sounds about right. SFO-LAX is waay saturated, and another carrier might be too much.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6710 times:

LAX also has serious facility issues for SWA. Schedules have remained constant at about 110 daily departures for over 5 years now with no real prospects for growth as long as US Air hangs on in T-1.

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 4):
UA's highest yield route out of SFO

Since yield was mentioned here are UA's top yielding CA markets from SFO for 12 months ending Sept 06. (source DOT).

City - Yield Cents
BUR - 42.24
LAX - 36.43
SNA - 35.53
SAN - 29.25



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineONTFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6551 times:

I don't particularly think that the chances are very high but I hope hope hope that ONT is one of the first destinations in/out of SFO. I know that other airlines have tried this route but maybe WN can put more than 2 RT'S a day in order to appeal all different types of travelers. Myself included. One can hope right?  biggrin 

ONT



Doin' just fine thanks...
User currently offlineUnited319 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6514 times:

I could see them operating a high amount of SAN flights over the already saturated LAX flights as previously stated. You can make a lot of connections in SAN that you could make in LAX. Afterall SAN is their 10th largest city in the network on all facetts (sp?) according to their website.


It's Time To Fly
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

By the way, where can you find a list of WN citites and their daily flights?

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6463 times:

Why would WN want to return to SFO? They're already hugely successful at OAK and SJC, so success at SFO is no longer necessary.

User currently offlineONTFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6448 times:

Quoting United319 (Reply 9):
By the way, where can you find a list of WN citites and their daily flights?

Here's a link to southwest.com that has a list of cities they fly to as well as the top ten airports with the number of daily departures out of those 10.

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/p...actsheet.html#Top%20Ten%20Airports

ONT



Doin' just fine thanks...
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6448 times:

BUR would be great... I fly to BUR from the Bay Area every week for work, and I'm forced to goto Oakland because my company won't pay $468 for the rediculous round trip on UA...

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6437 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 10):
By the way, where can you find a list of WN citites and their daily flights?

Check out page 13 of the annual report

http://www.southwest.com/investor_relations/swaar05.pdf



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6380 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):

Thanks. Well to bad we never met. I'm back to SFO after Thursday


ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3406 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6219 times:

I'd say LAS, PHX, MDW are locks. SAN and any of the LA area are good bets as well.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
I'd really like to see a PVD flight, but I don't think that would happen for a while.

wow - so would I, but so do I.

do you travel between PVD and SFO often???


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9112 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6005 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
LAS, SAN, PHX are locks I'd say.

I would say that LAS and PHX are almost definite locks. I'd look at an L.A. airport though for a third. I suppose WN is running out of room at LAX? Somebody mentioned BUR though...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

Quoting AS739X (Thread starter):
AC is moving to terminal 3 in October. This will be opening gates 21 and 23 for Southwest.

Since the possible start-up routes from SFO have been discussed many time before (do a search), I won't bother commenting on that. What intrigues me is the timing (date) of the inaugural of service. I had guessed more like an August start (maybe the 25th, when the next reservations block will open), which has been supported (?) by some rumors here on A.net a month or 2 ago.

The only "official" comment by WN (when the return to SFO was first announced) so far has been:
DALLAS, Feb. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines today announced its intent to resume service at San Francisco International Airport. The carrier has not released specific service details or a timeline, only saying that it is currently in discussions with the Airport and that it aims to return to the West Bay in a meaningful way in the early fall.
... so I figured late August or September.

Does anyone know a specific date of AC's move at SFO? (And BTW who handles them there -- UA?) I would think WN might start flying a week or so later (to give them time for gate remodeling, etc.) Has anyone seen any work under way in the ticketing lobby yet?

bb


User currently offlinePITSpeedbird From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

Any chance of a PIT transcon -- thoughts?

PITSpeedbird



you leave. Arrive before
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5796 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 18):

Search as been well done there buddy, with no answers. With OCT creeping into the window for WN ticket sales, I'd think they would come out with more then "Hey we are coming back" by now. I'm surprised WN insiders have not heard any rumblings. As least a date on an official announcement. This is the longest time I have seen from announcing a city to announcing routes I have seen WN go.

Maybe I'll get more information when I get back to SFO on the 22nd, and I'll get you a date on the AC move from them.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6729 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5773 times:

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 19):
Any chance of a PIT transcon -- thoughts?

I would say that unless you are a Southwest "Mega-Station" or within 1.5 hours away from SFO, the likelyhood of you getting service if probably less than 0.5%....

To me, the contenders would be the following:

SAN
OAK
LAS
PHX
MDW
BWI
BNA
PHL
MCO
LAX
ONT
BUR
SEA
SLC
BOI
etc...

I would say almost every station east of the Mississippi not mentioned above should not even think about asking if they are getting service..

But that's just my opinion..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5691 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 18):
The only "official" comment by WN (when the return to SFO was first announced) so far has been:
DALLAS, Feb. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines today announced its intent to resume service at San Francisco International Airport. The carrier has not released specific service details or a timeline, only saying that it is currently in discussions with the Airport and that it aims to return to the West Bay in a meaningful way in the early fall.
... so I figured late August or September.

Seeing as Fall does not begin until Sept 21st or so, first part of October seems more likely. WN has began a few cities at in that time frame, ORF comes to mind.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineIAHFLYER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5545 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
Why would WN want to return to SFO? They're already hugely successful at OAK

Why, OAK is closing down according to another forum, sorry but I forgot which one.



Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9112 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21):
I would say almost every station east of the Mississippi not mentioned above should not even think about asking if they are getting service..

But that's just my opinion..

In spite of being the PIT die-hard that I am, I have to concur with your opinion. PIT is not a very strong station right now, but I am sure things will change for the better at PIT. As much as I would love to see WN with a transcon flight at PIT, like PIT-LAX, OAK, or even SFO... I just don't see it happening either.

I pretty much see PIT and PIT-related aviation as a chess match... WN is making their moves regarding which cities to add, given the O&D and its growth, but the airlines already well-entrenched at PIT (US and UA, regarding transcons) are pretty much making moves that appear to be keeping WN in check.

I believe effective this summer, SFO and LAX go to two daily frequencies, and Luketenley stated that UA has weekly 757 service to LAX. Given he receives his info from airport employees, I have to say that his information is accurate... If WN was to start non-stop LAX or SFO service, or OAK service, I would bet that both loads and yields would be low...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 R311music : OAK is most definitely not closing down. Gary Kelly has said he wants the SFO service to coexist with the other two bar area airports. Just like IAD
26 SkyHarborsHome : Aww man. Nashville fell out of the top 10.
27 Post contains images SANFan : Note that I mentioned the August 25 opening of the next reservation window as an excellent opportunity for WN to unveil a new city's schedules. New s
28 Stirling : Why would WN fly between SFO and OAK? DOT Q32006 Rank | Market | Daily Passengers | Average Fare | Average Yield | Average Daily Revenues 1. (SFO) -
29 Post contains images FATFlyer : To get to the other side of the bay, of course. LOL
30 AS739X : IAHFlyer, well I dont know where you heard this, but WN is not shutting down Oakland. You dont just move +120. SFO will have 2 gates for WN, making S
31 SANFan : Yeah, that pesky MCO has been growing fast for WN! BNA actually left the Top-10 in the Summer of 2005 as Orlando scooted up the ladder, passing first
32 ScottB : Well, you don't have to take it that way, but you can look at past WN city openings for some guidance: IAD opened 10/5/06. RSW opened 10/3/05. ORF op
33 Post contains images Steeler83 : I completely missed that one! Yeah! Good question there Stirling... FATFlyer, yours was also a funny post! Why would WN... "FLY" between SFO and OAK?
34 SANFan : There certainly is that history of early-October start-ups, Scott, and that is a good time (after the summer rush) to be able to throw extra resource
35 Coronado990 : It would be nice if Southwest could this time pair up SFO with SAN and continue some flights from SFO via SAN to destinations that might otherwise too
36 SJCRRPAX : For sure OAK is not closing down, it's probably the closest airport to the population center of the Bay Area out of the three Bay Area airports, if f
37 Flyboy7974 : From lists above, if we're looking at a contender in the "L.A." area other then LAX, it'd most likely be BUR. Gate space available and operations read
38 PVD757 : PVD opened 10/27/96
39 AlexPorter : They aren't going to ever fly PVD-SFO with their current fleet - right now their longest flight is PHL-OAK, and PVD-SFO is longer than that. They migh
40 PVD757 : "ever" is an awful long time. I'd be willing to bet that the winglet and thrust upgrades they made to the 73G's make the flight logistcally possible.
41 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : There are several reasons... I'd imagine not the least of which would be a preemptive strike by WN to avoid another repeat of their "Great Screwup of
42 SkyHarborsHome : SMF is one of two CA stations I have not utilized. I had no idea they were so busy there but we all know how much WN loves (and for good reason) intr
43 Flyboy7974 : Why are they reentering into SFO, that's an easy question to answer, to defend their turf. Just like why did they ever go into PHL, why did they go in
44 AS739X : Very well said. I think to add to this they have learned in PHL how to deal with a delayed plagued airport. A little more ground time in other statio
45 Mariner : I agree with the second part, but the first one puzzles me. Since they didn't have "turf" at PHL (or DEN) how could they defend it? And at SFO - what
46 SJCRRPAX : The market they are defending is the Bay Area. For a certain percentage of WN customers presently flying out of OAK or SJC, SFO is the closer more co
47 Mariner : Yes, I think I made that point: But wasn't that always true? So the interesting issue (for me) is not that they are going back, but that they left, m
48 SANFan : Thanks for that ASLAX2SFO. A third gate possibility makes more sense than just 2 (which hardly seems worth the trouble for WN.) With the new cx arriv
49 AS739X : Gates 12 and 14 if I remember correctly
50 AADC10 : I am sure WN is preparing for the day OAK hits the wall on capacity. It only has one commercial runway (the others are for GA use only) and there are
51 SANFan : Tx AS; so they won't happen to end up at their former gates. bb
52 Legacyins : This could still be a few years out. The City just put out bids to see the best way to utilize the Terminal. There is even talk of a total tear down
53 AS739X : The concourse they were at is gone. it was torn down in the last 6 months and will be the ramp area for the international terminal gates A1,3,5 which
54 Flyboy7974 : My point when I was refering to SWA defending turf was simply from other growing carriers. Just prior to SWA and their entry into the PHL market, Airt
55 Post contains links Legacyins : They probably would. Below are the minutes from the Airport Comission regarding the renovation of Term 1 and 2. http://www.flysfo.com/about/organizat
56 Post contains links AS739X : (You said)You can't tell me like SWA noted in their press release that we have seen major changes to the SFO airspace and airport operation, no way!!
57 Post contains images UA772IAD : I agree completely. It hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread, but you are correct in that changing a few flights to SFO instead of OAK or SJC will
58 Flyboy7974 : UA772IAD - where are you getting your info from regarding JFK? Latest figures released by DOT straight from airline for UA and their Hub Profile/SFO t
59 UA772IAD : Sure thing, from our Station Operations manager in SFO. Of course, he could have just been talking for March- but his syntax made it sound like he wa
60 Lexy : The important thing to remember here is BNA is also the SMALLEST market in the top 15 for WN. That should say alot for the amount of traffic the carr
61 SkyyMaster : I think WN's focus from SFO this time is going to be more trans-con oriented; i.e. BWI, PHL, IAD, MDW. They will probably add a few western destinatio
62 Post contains images Dadoftyler : Thanks for the insightful response...I'll let Pete and Gary know you send your regards.....
63 Lexy : Sounds good to me. And tell them regards from the market they forgot...Nashville. I have no use for a company that virtually gets everything they cou
64 AS739X : China Airlines Cargo OperateS BNA-SFO (Sorry couldn't resist) You'd think there is someone at UAL looking at running a A319 on this route. ASLAX
65 Lexy : LOL! Occasionally they do. Well, when they don't have to stopover in Houston of course. United doesn't even HAVE mainline service at BNA anymore. The
66 SANFan : This is my one and only route-remark on this thread: I think it very possible that WN will in fact start SFO-BNA sooner rather than later, you bet. H
67 Jacobin777 : ...actually SJC still has quite a bit of capacity, especially considering how much flights have dropped off after the "tech bubble burst of 2000-2001
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