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Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?  
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 602 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

OK, I know we have discussed the issues BA has with the BWI flight to LHR. What does open skies do to the BWI-LHR flight? I am wondering if BA is considering that slot better allocated to DFW in the new open skies environment. Thoughts?


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14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Apologies - but could somebody quickly explain the issues BA has with its BWI flight? I did a quick search but turned up nothing.

Thanks!


User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

It always seems like it's on the list of marginal routes. Its one of the few routes flown to the USA with 767 versus the 777 and 744s that regularly invade IAD (Dulles Intl), an airport that serves the same market catchment (Washington/Baltimore). Also, the State of Maryland helped the flight out through a lottery scheme called "Big Ben Bucks", where the lottery would give away business seats in exchange for funds from Maryland.


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User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

Do they still have that flight continue to CLT or am I just crazy? I remember seeing photos of BA 767s and even 777s in CLT!

I've always wondered why BA even considered flying there when the yields to/from IAD are much higher and are more capable of filling up a 777 or 744.


User currently offlineIC408 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 26 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

BA serves BWI to LHR through the exception in Bermuda II which allows for service to LHR if no competing service is offered. i.e. if UA (never going to happen but just for example) started BWI - LGW then BA would have to switch to LGW as BWI is not specifically allowed to LHR. A similar situation exists at DEN I believe that allows for the BA service there.

A secondary argument used by BA was that BWI, DCA , and IAD are considered to be co-terminals as part of WAS. So technically they are offering WAS - LHR service. There are actually several technicalities and claims, etc but its mainly a combination of these two reasons.

As for why they serve BWI, well despite what some people believe there is actually a difference in the IAD catchment area and the BWI area. There is overlap but a lot of people live N and NE of DC and can get to BWI a lot faster than IAD. In addition, Baltimore and its suburbs are North of BWI so a IAD trip takes almost 1.25 hours if not more during rush hour. So in short, lots of people can use BWI as a more convenient option plus its a low cost hub with WN offering service to most everywhere.



Opinions expressed within my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of United Airlines, Inc.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 3):
Do they still have that flight continue to CLT or am I just crazy?

Not anymore

Quoting IC408 (Reply 4):
BA serves BWI to LHR through the exception in Bermuda II which allows for service to LHR if no competing service is offered.

No they don't. They switched the flight under coterminal authority quite a bit before exploiting the single service loophole on the other three routings.


User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 951 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 2):
Also, the State of Maryland helped the flight out through a lottery scheme called "Big Ben Bucks", where the lottery would give away business seats in exchange for funds from Maryland.

More than this...the Md Aviation Authority do not charge BA rent. This was biggish news during the last election cycle.

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 6):
More than this...the Md Aviation Authority do not charge BA rent. This was biggish news during the last election cycle.

Really?...I didn't hear anything...which candidate brought it up?...since BWI seems to be unable to get/hold onto( e.g. KL,EI ) any major Intl. service, I'd be very careful threatening BA, or they'll lose this flight also.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3408 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 2):
Its one of the few routes flown to the USA with 767 versus the 777 and 744s

Just because it sees the 763 does not mean its a marginal performer. The BA 763's have received new interiors and now PHL, EWR, and i believe BOS all see the 763


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 8):

He means it isn't one of BA more successful US runs, hence the use of smaller aircraft on the route


User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 8):
The BA 763's have received new interiors and now PHL, EWR, and i believe BOS all see the 763

Yes, but that is BWI's sole service to whereas PHL, BOS and EWR all have multiple BA frequencies per day - especially in summer. Just a hunch...



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User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 951 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 7):
Really?...I didn't hear anything...which candidate brought it up?...since BWI seems to be unable to get/hold onto( e.g. KL,EI ) any major Intl. service, I'd be very careful threatening BA, or they'll lose this flight also.

As luck would have it, there was something in the press this week about the subsidy, Balto Sun - "BA BWI Subsidy Ok'd."

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 8):
Just because it sees the 763 does not mean its a marginal performer. The BA 763's have received new interiors and now PHL, EWR, and i believe BOS all see the 763



Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 10):
Yes, but that is BWI's sole service to whereas PHL, BOS and EWR all have multiple BA frequencies per day - especially in summer. Just a hunch...

The reason BA decided to redesign the interiors and use 767s on several routes instead of the 777/747 is directly related to the amount of premium traffic in the specific market. The upgraded BA 767s do not have First Class cabins like the 777 and 747. Markets that could not adequately support BA FIrst Class were downgraded to the 767, either completely (BWI, DTW, etc.), or partially (PHL, BOS, EWR, etc.). The cities partially downgraded retained at least one other year round premium flight (777 or 747).

Here is an (old) article which highllights some of the relationships between BWI/MD and BA.
http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?id=8652&siteSection=4


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
The upgraded BA 767s do not have First Class cabins like the 777 and 747. Markets that could not adequately support BA FIrst Class were downgraded to the 767

Some of their 777-served cities also lack the traffic to support First, so having service with a 767 is not always indicative of premium demand for some of their routes.


User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
The upgraded BA 767s do not have First Class cabins like the 777 and 747. Markets that could not adequately support BA FIrst Class were downgraded to the 767

Some of their 777-served cities also lack the traffic to support First, so having service with a 767 is not always indicative of premium demand for some of their routes.

Obviously.


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