Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Frontier Aims To Unveil Lynx's Markets Next Month  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26025 posts, RR: 50
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5614 times:

Frontier Aims To Unveil Lynx's Markets Next Month

04/13/2007

Frontier plans to unveil routes for its new Lynx Aviation subsidiary next month as the first of 10 Bombardier Q400 turboprops are delivered to the carrier.

Last fall, Frontier sent request for proposals to about 50 communities inviting them to explain why they would be ideal candidates for Q400 service and routes for 17 Embraer 170s coming on line. Republic Airways Holdings' subsidiary Republic Airlines launched 170 flights under Frontier's banner last month from Denver to Indianapolis, Omaha, Albu- querque and El Paso.

Frontier's spokesman noted routes flown by the Q400 would likely be a mix of new and existing markets.
From the start, Frontier's management has said the 18 markets the company plans to serve with Q400 play into a strategy of generating incremental passengers that Denver rival Southwest can't access. Executives previously noted that the 170s and Q400s are targeted to spoke markets that are too small for Southwest's Boeing 737s.



Full article (requires subscription)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...nveil+Lynx%27s+Markets+Next+Month+


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25567 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5545 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hopefully, the DOT will have approved the AOC for Lynx by then.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9654 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5537 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Is F9 planning on going head-to-head with UA on some routes, or are they looking for new fields?

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5526 times:

Mariner-

Give me the odds on DEN-COS.

NS


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6784 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

Am I to assume correctly that all the flights will be DEN-XXX?

I do remember seeing some of the cities that applied.. and some were on the east coast.. yeah, it was odd.. I am assuming they won't be opening any east coast hub/focus city or flying any Q400 to the east coast will they?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25567 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5498 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
Give me the odds on DEN-COS.

A Tibetan nun who has taken a vow of silence could say more about this than I, but I would have thought quite low.

I don't know what it achieves from an economic point of view. Presumably, it would all be connecting pax (to Frontier flights at DEN), but COS-DEN-XXX would have to be a higher fare than simply DEN-XXX, or the COS-DEN part wouldn't be profitable. Which might defeat the purpose.

We've just been having a discussion about exactly this on another board - with people who know something about it - and their consensus is that COS may see some service (it was on the list for the RFP), but it is more likely to be p2p to other cities.

Anything's possible, and Frontier has said that there is - and has been - a huge internal debate at the company about COS - should they, shouldn't they - and it is about fifty-fifty.

Then again, Midwest's MCI-COS may have shifted that balance.

My guess is that the value, for folk at COS, is to be able to fly somewhere - MDW? SFO? - that is both a destination and a potential connecting airport. But it is only a guess.

I think it is more likely, at least in the first instance, that TUL will go to Lynx.

mariner

[Edited 2007-04-13 02:49:23]

[Edited 2007-04-13 03:17:56]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9654 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5493 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

where would they fly the Q400 from on East Coast routes? MEM? As a hub?

User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

If the 170s are operated by republic- thern the other half of lynx (Q400s) are F9? im i wrong? also, id wait and see if lynx will throw in a E170 DEN-EGE....


121
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5451 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):

I don't know what it achieves from an economic point of view.

I'm not sure either... what I do know is that UA manages to fill a bunch of planes DEN-COS every day, and those people have to be going to or from somewhere, potentially somewhere expensive.

I am not positive that a fleet of Q400s point-to-point from COS will compete with OO's RJs to the top markets - they do fly DEN, ORD, SFO, and LAX from COS.

We KNOW that COS can sustain the service... nobody seems to want to do it.


NS


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25567 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5422 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 7):
thern the other half of lynx (Q400s) are F9?

Lynx will be all Q400's, and they intend to purchase, not lease, all the presently ordered aircraft.

The Republic deal is separate from Lynx.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 6):
where would they fly the Q400 from on East Coast routes? MEM? As a hub?

I don't think there will be any "east coast" routes - depending on your definition of "coast". There were a few surprises in the RFP - such as Huntsville, Alabama, which is beyond the 650 mile limit from DEN that Frontier/Lynx has suggested.

Just because a city was on the RFP doesn't mean that they will get service, but there must be some interest just to put 'em on the list.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
I am not positive that a fleet of Q400s point-to-point from COS will compete with OO's RJs to the top markets - they do fly DEN, ORD, SFO, and LAX from COS.

I don't think it would be a fleet. At best, you might - stress "might" - see a couple of routes out of COS. Remembering too, the supposed 650 mile limit on the Q400's.

And yes, it is always possible that one of them could be DEN - the Q400 is a game-changer for Frontier, and so far we don't know (or I don't) the new rules of the game.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

I wonder if Frontier will use the Q400s to serve smaller cities in California, the Northwest, andi in the Southwest. I am hoping Stockton, CA is on their list.

User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 1):
Hopefully, the DOT will have approved the AOC for Lynx by then.

Why has it taken so long to get that certificate? Political corruption?

Could these aircraft be flown under the Frontier certificate in the interim?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25567 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5350 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 11):
Why has it taken so long to get that certificate? Political corruption?

The DOT always takes its time on these things. I believe Vision Air applied for their (scheduled carrier) AOC last October and it was only approved a couple of weeks ago.

Vision Airlines Gets Scheduled Service Certificate (by FATFlyer Mar 30 2007 in Civil Aviation)

But Frontier has asked the DOT - genty and politely - to get a bit of a move on.  Smile

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 11):
Could these aircraft be flown under the Frontier certificate in the interim?

Um - maybe, but there aren't any aircraft at the moment. The first Q400 was not scheduled until next month and the second is a few weeks after that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineASEFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5249 times:

ASE ASE ASE ASE, please, God, ASE!

User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5245 times:

A relative of mine said that there is a good chance they will come to MTJ.


Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineASEFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5205 times:

What about TEX, can those puppies get in there?

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5116 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5140 times:

Quoting ASEFlyer (Reply 13):
ASE ASE ASE ASE, please, God, ASE!

You can bet your sweet ASE that they will fly to Aspen. I would expect to see service in the beginning of fall. I thought ASE was closed for runway refurb? I would imagine we would see an announcement in the coming months for F9 to get ASE. I too am excited to see this. I think Moutain Air Express who flew for Western Pacific flew into ASE. I wonder how their loads were on the MAX routes?

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
From the start, Frontier's management has said the 18 markets the company plans to serve with Q400 play into a strategy of generating incremental passengers that Denver rival Southwest can't access. Executives previously noted that the 170s and Q400s are targeted to spoke markets that are too small for Southwest's Boeing 737s.

This is the smartest way to approach the competition from WN. I have no doubt in my mind that the LYNX program will be successful.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
Is F9 planning on going head-to-head with UA on some routes, or are they looking for new fields?

I doubt they intend on going head to head with UA. They have always used caution when they approached any of UA's market, even DEN. Frontier has learned to adapt to UA's stratagies of competition, and I think UA has also adapted to the fact that Frontier is here to stay. Even Potter and several of his partners have stated that it would have been awful to lose UA during its bankruptcy. That speaks alot about the professionalism of F9's higher ups. Competion is healthy to some points.

LYNX will add destinations that UAX flies to, but there is plenty of market share for the Q400's for markets like ASE, DRO, GJT, and so on.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5102 times:

Im sure that JAC, BZN, and SUN are on their list. (Sun Valley Company and the Sun Valley Ketchum consortium are eager to see this happen, as they have been huge in subsidizing QX service to SFO & LAX)

User currently offlineTripleboom From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 278 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

I posted this on another topic a while ago, but if you want Lynx service, you better put your money where your mouth is like FSD. Somewhere in the range of $250,000.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...rticle?AID=/20070327/NEWS/70327027


User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
Is F9 planning on going head-to-head with UA on some routes, or are they looking for new fields?

Most, if not all of the new 400 cities will probably already have UAEx RJ service. For city pairs within 320 miles of each other, the 400 performs equally -if not better than the CRJs in flight time. After that, the CRJ starts smokin' the 400. However, the CASM for the 400 is considerably lower, which will allow F9 to set fares where they make money and UAEx can't...if they so wish.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
Anything's possible, and Frontier has said that there is - and has been - a huge internal debate at the company about COS - should they, shouldn't they - and it is about fifty-fifty.

I see very little upside to COS service to anywhere other than DEN for F9. It simply dilutes the efficiency of the DEN hub. It would be very much like US beginning to use Williams Field in Mesa for flights to places other than PHX...it's just too close to their PHX hub.

Quoting Tripleboom (Reply 18):
you better put your money where your mouth is like FSD.

I expect FSD to be in the first group of new cities named when the announcement comes. I think they probably deserve the 170 but all the signals are pointing to 400 service. F9 told CID they wanted a $half mil revenue guarantee for the first 12 months. Someone at CID let it slip that they were talking 170 or service. With all the other goodies FSD is adding in to their welcome gift, (free rent, landing fees and local marketing funds) I'm sure the FSD incentive is getting pretty close to that $half mil.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineJetboy319 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4771 times:

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 17):
QX service to SFO & LAX

I think you meant OAK, not SFO  Wink


User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 20):
I think you meant OAK, not SFO

my bad, yes, I do apologize.


User currently offlineAirlineEcon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

I don't know much about the ski resort markets. But couldn't frontier make a killing flying denver to more obscure ski markets like telluride with smaller planes. Or are these markets already covered?

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 10):
I am hoping Stockton, CA is on their list.

I think you will see SkyBus in Stockton before Lynx/Frontier....(And then it will marketed as Stockton/Sacramento or Stockton/Oakland/San Francisco....or something like that.)



Delete this User
User currently offlineChrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 875 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4655 times:

Quoting ASEFlyer (Reply 15):
What about TEX, can those puppies get in there?

i would love to have an additional option into TEX!



Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
25 OOer : anyone wanna guess the top 12 destinations for the Q400?
26 RJNUT : I am not thinking they are going to be all the mountain ski resorts that many on here hope, at least at first.. they want to test the capabilities of
27 DesertAir : I have been hearing a bit about SkyBus but would like some more information about them. I did not think they were going to operate out west or are yo
28 Stirling : Half-heartedly, yes. Who knows with these guys at SkyBus? They are going into the game with more capital than jetBlue had to start off with, and I re
29 RW717 : I Couldn't agree more! I live in the bay area but have done work in the Stockton and it is quite large. I have even flown out of SCK on G4 to LAS (my
30 DesertAir : I was in Sockton visiting parents during Easter and always drive them down my the waterfront. I also think it is amazing. Frontier had service to Sto
31 ASEFlyer : I have a question for you guys: Why does GJT not show up on the route map for F9? I think the service is operated by great lakes. Are there any other
32 F9Animal : They must not have an agreement to fly the route. I don't recall seeing great lakes flying into GJT when I last visited there, but I may have just be
33 Post contains links Mariner : Most of the Great Lakes cities don't show on the basic map. But, on the highband version version (interactive), there is a button you can click, just
34 Montanaflyer : My guesses for the 10 most likely service Lynx cities: 1. Aspen, CO 2. Hayden, CO 3. Jackson, WY 4. Durango, CO 5. Missoula, Mont. 6. Bozeman, Mont. 7
35 Stapleton : My guess: SUN, JAC, BZN, COS, GJT, ASE, HDN, EGE, RAP, FSD, ICT Replace and/or augment F9 mainline in BIL, TUL, OKC, ELP
36 Post contains links GEG2RAP : fsd has to be as close to sure thing as can be, really throwing in the money to get a q400 up there , RAP will not have the same offer. http://www.rap
37 Floridaflyboy : All of those except BIL will be transitioning to Republic. BIL however, is rumored to go LYNX.
38 Travatl : God, if they add DRO to Lynx, I wish they'd tag FMN to it. It'd make it so much easier (and more comfortable) for me to go home to visit.
39 Post contains images Floridaflyboy : Hey Montanaflyer, I like your list, and think probably the overwhelming majority will happen! However, the only one I'm wondering about is Helena. HL
40 Tripleboom : As excited as I am for FSD service, my fiancee's hometown is less than an hour's drive from Sioux Falls, I have a little heavy heartedness for my soon
41 Stapleton : RAP may not have the same offer, but they have one huge advantage over FSD in geography. RAP is able to produce passengers both east bound and west bo
42 Floridaflyboy : I agree here. RAP has what you mentioned above, as well as the fact that it's both a business and liesure market. Granted not huge in either area in
43 Stapleton : Good point - I've heard that as well. I just wonder how long until Frontier has more oppertunities for long haul traffic with the E70 and replaces ma
44 Floridaflyboy : Oh, I agree entirely. I could see some of the markets that originally go E70 to eventually go DH4 when more come online to free up E70s to fly new, l
45 Stapleton : I do think TUL will be sooner than later with Lynx staff already there.
46 Dw9115 : I think FSD (Sioux Falls) will be getting at least X2 service to start and maybe even X3 daily service with the Q400 and later down the line a mix of
47 CIDflyer : I've always thought it was a shame that AA pulled out of the FSD market. If I recall, the ORD service actually came about when the STL hub got reduce
48 Post contains links ASEFlyer : Announced today: Aspen Chamber Resort Association + some other groups pledging another 100k in addition to the incentive package already offered. Any
49 Graphic : Hmm... Maybe they should send the Republic E170's to GFK. Actually I dont care how unprofitable the route would be, I'd just stand over at red line an
50 Rampart : I can't help being amused at the repeated history.... no, reversed-order history. Original Frontier starts with piston DC-3s, evolves into Turbo Conva
51 Paddy78 : I think COS is more likely than some are giving it credit for because COS does have one great advantage for any airline with a hanger in Denver. I kno
52 ASEFlyer : While I agree with you for the most part, I have to say that ASE is very much a year-round destination (well..who am I kidding a winter/summer destin
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Bwia To Get New 737 Next Month Any Details posted Wed Nov 13 2002 02:12:40 by BWIA 772
Crossair To Announce New Name Next Month posted Tue Dec 18 2001 02:32:19 by Jiml1126
Frontier Aims At Smaller Markets posted Fri Dec 8 2006 20:32:07 by KarlB737
BA To Unveil 06-08 Business Plan Next Thursday posted Fri Mar 3 2006 13:18:28 by Leelaw
Ozjet To Add PER Next Month posted Wed Feb 8 2006 05:34:29 by 777ER
OzJet To Lift Off Next Month.... posted Fri Oct 7 2005 10:09:14 by PER744
British Airways To Get A321 Next Month posted Mon Apr 19 2004 10:43:18 by Starlionblue
Kimpo-Haneda 4x Daily Shuttle To Start Next Month. posted Fri Oct 24 2003 15:23:48 by Hoons90
Southern Winds Lineas Areas To MIA Next Month posted Sat Apr 27 2002 18:11:44 by MAH4546
Oriental Thai To HKG Next Month posted Mon Jan 21 2002 16:04:50 by CX773