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Lufthansa Nears Major Regional Aircraft Order ATW  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6722 times:

Lufthansa will make an announcement this spring regarding the long-awaited renewal of its regional fleet, CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber told ATWOnline last week.

"We are currently in talks with the manufacturers. After that, we will provide details," he said. He did not indicate the size of the order or if it would include aircraft for its Swiss International Air Lines subsidiary.

Currently, LH's regional carriers CityLine, Eurowings, Air Dolomiti and Augsburg Airways operate 145 aircraft comprising 18 RJ85s, 19 BAe 146s, 12 CRJ900s, 20 CRJ700s, 40 CRJ200s, 26 ATR 42s/72s and 10 Dash 8-300s/Q400s.

from : http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8581

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 3021 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6674 times:

I don't think that this will happen but it would be great to see some E170's in LH colours.

User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6656 times:

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 1):
I don't think that this will happen but it would be great to see some E170's in LH colours.

I agree

http://cardatabase.net/modifiedairli...earch/photo_search.php?id=00007767


User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 3021 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 2):
http://cardatabase.net/modifiedairli...earch/photo_search.php?id=00007767

lovely! this is all I could say...  cloudnine 


User currently offlineLite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

I think that the Embraer could be a good replacement for a number of the smaller types in the Lufthansa Group fleet, despite the fact that they have a large amount of Bombardier aircraft. The E-Jets have already been ordered by Swiss though have been deferred for some time, and bmi (Lufthansa owns 30% and has the option to buy outright next year) has been shown the E-Jet family as a possible augmentation aircraft for bmi regional or replacement aircraft for bmibaby.

User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Well, somehow I believe LH will continue ordering Bombardier planes.


R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6363 times:

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 5):
Well, somehow I believe LH will continue ordering Bombardier planes.

CRJ-1000's i suppose?



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6300 times:

Is there any indication how the CRJ700/900 and the ERJs compare in fuel efficiency these days?

SailorOrion


User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6137 times:

as to a decision whether the order will be placed with Embraer or Bombardier, perhaps it will order from both? LH officials have repeatedly stated that they want to source aircraft from two manufactures, so as not to be too dependent from just one supplier. although that was always claimed in combination with orders for the mainline fleet and having Airbus and Boeing in mind, perhaps this is a policy that applies to the regional fleet as well?

rgds
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6041 times:

This is going to be interesting. The AVRO aircraft are comfortable and appropriate for a half-dozen specialized airports in Europe, but otherwise the EMB-170/175 - 190/195 would be an ideal replacement. They bridge the gap between traditional larger airplanes and so-called 'regional' aircraft very nicely.

I have flown in the EMB-170 and EMB-190 and can guarantee anyone who cares that from a passenger perspective there is simply no comparison with the CRJ products.

I believe that the EMB-170 can do LCY. I am not sure about the larger EMB-190 series, but if so it seems as if there would be no contest.

I guess we have all been over the CRJ vs EMB before. Not quite as bad as A vs B, but still debated.

I would like to see SWISS replace their Avros with EMB products when the time comes.

[Edited 2007-04-14 12:22:51]


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5999 times:

Well I just hope they get rid of that awful "Jumbolinos" .

Konstantin


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5938 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 10):
Well I just hope they get rid of that awful "Jumbolinos" .

The "Jumbolino" name came in the 90s and is left over from the Crossair times. The planes themselves are nice though. Comfortable ride. The passengers like them AFAIK, though I think they would like the EMB-190 as a replacement aircraft too. And I am sure the EMB-190 is more efficient than the Avro/Jumbolino.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSandroZRH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5922 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 10):
Well I just hope they get rid of that awful "Jumbolinos" .

They are NOT awful at all, actually they are a very comfortable ride. What makes LH's Avros awful is the 3-3 seating. Have you ever flown on a 3-2 layout Avro? I'm sure you'd change your opinion.


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5890 times:

I think it is pretty difficult to build a plane that is less efficient than the Avros/Jumbolinos/Quadrapuffs. From what we can see in LHs data, there's no airplane that consumes more fuel per 100pkm in the fleet.

SailorOrion


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5857 times:

the ARJ is comfortable and quiet, the former important to passengers, the latter to airports (noise abatement) and therefore the landing fees...

4 engines are going to cost a bit in fuel, but if that's offset with lower cost elsewhere it's a tradeoff that's not costing money.

The ARJ is also capable of operating out of far shorter strips than say a CRJ (which is severely underpowered), making it ideal for flights into small airports like London City.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5844 times:

Bombardier needs to launch the Q400X / Q500, then IMO LH (through Augsburg Airways) would immediately order at least 15.


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1721 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5826 times:

Might the long-awaited and still uncertain F70/F100NG be an option for LH?


flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5758 times:

Quoting DALCE (Reply 16):
Might the long-awaited and still uncertain F70/F100NG be an option for LH?

LH wants aircraft to be delivered, not hot air. Sorry if this is a bit harsh, but LH won't order aircraft that haven't been launched.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineRainmaker From Brazil, joined Jan 2006, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5357 times:

Somehow I think this regional jet order could be related to the retirement of the B735. Does anyone know how many are in use at LH's fleet?

Embraer has been targeting an LH's order for many years now. Now that Lufthansa is showing good profitability it's about to happen. I would expect something around 50 190/195.


User currently offlineV1valarob From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

This is a little off-topic, but before I was a member of a.net I asked on the AOPA forums and I didnt get a good response but, how do they get aircraft like Q400's across the pond? Do they package them up and boat them, or do they stop in iceland? Are CRJ's able to get across when not weighed down?

-Rob


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Quoting V1valarob (Reply 19):
This is a little off-topic, but before I was a member of a.net I asked on the AOPA forums and I didnt get a good response but, how do they get aircraft like Q400's across the pond? Do they package them up and boat them, or do they stop in iceland? Are CRJ's able to get across when not weighed down?

Without passengers, the range increases significantly. You fly a route like north-eastern Canada - Greenland - Iceland - Scotland or something like this. And if the range is still insufficient, you can add auxiliary fuel tanks. These are removed after delivery.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 12):
They are NOT awful at all, actually they are a very comfortable ride. What makes LH's Avros awful is the 3-3 seating. Have you ever flown on a 3-2 layout Avro? I'm sure you'd change your opinion.

Well to tell the truth not ... but my brother and in his opinion this A/Cs are very uncomfortable .

And the A/Cs look really bad ...

Konstantin


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3492 times:
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Quoting Rainmaker (Reply 18):
Somehow I think this regional jet order could be related to the retirement of the B735.

Are there any pilot scope clauses that regulate the number of aircraft that LH and LH CityLine can operate respectively, and which may hamper a combined B735/regional aircraft order?

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 9):
I have flown in the EMB-170 and EMB-190 and can guarantee anyone who cares that from a passenger perspective there is simply no comparison with the CRJ products.

I assume that LH earns most of its revenue from business class-pax. On the CRJ the C class-pax has two seats to himself already, so LH may not find it worth the money to pay extra for slightly wider aircraft where seats are only 1 inch wider, plus the airport fees will be higher for the E190/E195 than for the CRJ900/1000 because the aircraft are physically bigger and thus heavier. Most European butts will fit comfortably in a 17" wide Y seat too, as I have read several favourable comments on the web about the CRJ900s "new cabin" with LH.

I do like the E-jets too, but the "wider seats" may not be a big selling point for LH, if the C class-concept continues to involve leaving 50% of all seats free, as there are limitations to what business people are willing to pay for a little extra space on a 90-minute flight. If LH decides to sell one seat per business class pax, then the extra seat width will appear more attractive, but that will then differ from the A32X and B737 cabins where two C pax share a row of three seats.

Bombardier are probably in serious talks with LH, both have benefitted from each other since 1992 when the CRJ100 was launched, and LH continues to show that the airline can still make loads of money despite having no PTVs in Y, flying the "gas-guzzling A346" and flying "those dreaded CRJs"...  Wink

Either way, LH will get the aircraft that suits their needs best.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineSandroZRH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):

Well to tell the truth not ... but my brother and in his opinion this A/Cs are very uncomfortable .

Then i really wonder what he'd expect, I've flown on LX's Avros a countless times and still think that they are comfortable planes to fly on.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
And the A/Cs look really bad ...

Airlines dont care about looks when they order planes, just because you think the Avro looks pants doesnt make it an awful aircraft at all.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 23):
Airlines dont care about looks when they order planes, just because you think the Avro looks pants doesnt make it an awful aircraft at all.

That´s right , it was more a personal opinion ...

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 23):
Been on a.net for over three years, but re-registered.

Was your Username ZRHnerd or something similar ??

Konstantin


25 EI321 : Just a question - do the LH 146s have poor cabin air quality (even smell of fumes) sometimes?
26 ZRH : Can these horrible long and narrow planes do LCY? This THE most important argument for LX. As already said, with the 2-3 seating of LX, these aircraf
27 DALCE : They are not yet to replace, delivery started in the '90s and they have still some years to go. The 733's will be replaced first as they are older. (
28 LTU932 : Then why did LH order the 747-8I and actually become the launch customer of the type? Sorry for the OT, but my point is that LH did order an aircraft
29 Post contains images Legacy135 : I absolutely agree. This is true as well. The Jumbolino in the 3-2 layout is pretty nice. Talking about the 3-3 version, I recently used it on LH fro
30 A342 : I should have expressed myself differently. I meant to say: LH won't order an aircraft from a company that has a rather obscure future, with the stat
31 Post contains images CXfirst : Which of the regional planes that LH has, need replacements the most? Hope embraer gets a large order -CXfirst
32 A342 : Well, it's not their aircraft, but those of their partners. I'd say the BAe-146, it is getting old and it's fuel burn is less than satisfactory, to s
33 Johnnybgoode : i highly doubt that that is a solution. even the Sukhoi jets is far from being order by LH, i assume. i would have thought so, too. but LH would run
34 Columba : It was rumored over the last few weeks that LH converted the Swiss order for E170 into ones for the E195 which will replace the Avros and Bae 146 with
35 Columba : I was wondering about that as well. I think the Embraer is the most possible solution. The design of the CSeries is not done and there is a big quest
36 LHStarAlliance : Yea forget the Super Jet , it´s to risky , LH has a name as one of the safest airlines in the World ordering a Russian Airplane could be fatal ...
37 LipeGIG : Announced by Embraer ! LH goes Embraer (and Bombardier also as per press info). Embraer in fact will change their 15 E170 and 15 E195 sold to LX and w
38 Post contains links YULspotter : According to this article, it's 15 more CRJ-900s & 30 E-190s for LH. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070417/lufthansa_new_jets.html YULspotter
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