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SAN Air Service To Canada  
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5396 times:

I'd like to get thoughts from the A.net Expert Panel concerning San Diego and our dingy history of Canada air service.

There was a thread a few days ago (MSY Still On AC Route Map...Why?) that got kind of hijacked onto the subject of SAN and YYZ (a few familiar faces showed up there) and I figured if a dedicated thread was available, more people would see it and additional ideas might come forth.

The main question is: what keeps going wrong with SAN-Canada service? YVR has seen several starts by CPAir, AS, HP and AC/Jazz (and only one is still with us); AC has tried YYZ (and YUL?) before and, according to some, we may be on the verge of losing the service again, later this year. Westjet tried YYC 2 years ago and quietly left town without even a "goodbye".

The routes wouldn't keep getting started if there weren't numbers to support them, right? Why has nothing ever stuck? It makes sense that there would be several markets in Canada that should support service to Lindbergh Field; I would think the mild winters as well as summer (golf, beaches and Mexico) would bring Canadians here and I expect plenty of San Diegans head north for the summer. There should be at least some business travel too.

On the other thread, Longhauler reported that the loads to YYZ are not adequate for the A319 (back on the route as of April 1), the E190 is not really suitable for the stage length of the flight, and that the flight is under review and may disappear in the Fall. A couple of us mentioned that its departure and arrival times are bad but can't be corrected due to lack of UA gate space at the optimum departure time (morning). San747 asked why AC can't or won't change ground handler in order to score better gate availability. (Gates are scarce in the morning but it could be done.)

As AC is currently one half of SAN's foreign flag inhabitants (AM is the other) I would really hate to see the YYZ route abandoned (again!) (I have no idea how the Jazz flight to YVR is doing.) Does anyone at AC know any more about this situation? Should SAN airport people step in (with incentives like waiving RON parking fees or ??) to "encourage" AC to make it work here? AC certainly doesn't have the visibility or impact that BA had but SAN should be ashamed if they let this foreign flag disappear again.

To me it's just a part of the overall int'l travel curse haunting Lindbergh Field. In this case, however, there's no problem with a/c size, runway length, takeoff weight, etc., so to me that's even more reason to try to get MORE Canada service, and make sure we don't lose any of it!

What do you folks think about this? Opinions, rumors, or even facts would be welcome and appreciated.

bb

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3118 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5383 times:
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Hey bb,

Ah, the weekly (if not daily) SAN topic. The subject of the (lack of) Canadian connections to SAN is a good one. To my knowledge, over the last twenty years, SAN has had short-lived Canadian service from:

Wardair - I recall seeing the signs on the terminal in the late 1980s, I never actually saw one of their aircraft at SAN or even a schedule for their operations at SAN.
Canadian - Came in the late 1990s with service (twice daily?) to YVR, first on F-28s and then on 737-200s. I've seen photos of the 737 at SAN, but never any of the F-28s.
Alaska - As far as I know, their YVR service is seasonal now, flights usually operated by an MD-80 or 737-400
Westjet - 737s a few times a week to Calgary in the summer of 2005, disappeared without a trace although Westjet still appears on the terminal maps on the SAN website.
Air Canada - A319s & E-190s to YYZ, apparently on the chopping block, waiting for a possible reprieve
Air Canada Jazz - CR9 to YVR

I find myself wondering if the problem has to do with the San Diego Tourism Board not making enough (any) effort to market the city abroad. Maybe people abroad and elsewhere in the US simply aren't aware of what San Diego has to offer? It seems like a great winter vacation spot to me. Is the city really too cold in the winter? Is the water not warm enough? Honestly, I can't understand why so many people go on vacation in humid, buggy Florida when they could come to San Diego. There's no comparison.

I suppose the same might be said for the Canadian tourism board. I don't know what the public awareness is in San Diego of the attractions of Vancouver or Toronto, but I suspect it's not particularly high. It might be worthwhile to offer incentives for Air Canada to stay but I think it's essential to attract more passengers to the flights.

Cheers,

Edward


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25196 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Here is a clue... LA


While San Diego and surroundings are a great place (prob the best in CA), they live in the shadow of big brother Los Angeles.

When it comes to vacationing folks, its somewhat rare that SAN is sold as a single destination. Most generally its sold as either a CA package or more specifically, SoCal package centered around LA and all its sights, with side trips to places such as Palm Springs, San Diego and Las Vegas. Funny enough however is that both LAS and PSP do get sold as single destinations. As far as the business traveller, again big brother LA dominates as quite clearly the commerce and demand outstrips anything SAN could produce. And lastly for the local SAN traveller who's market is again only a small slice under the LA shadow still does have lots of Canada options via one stop services thru airline hubs or more importantly up the 5 freeway at LAX.

Ultimately as with many other San Diego debates, the mere 120mile downtown to downtown distance to Los Angeles continues to hurt the city as airlines clearly would prefer to concentrate resources on the very much larger LA market.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

I think we would have to get some input from somebody who is connected to AC network planning. While I'm not at liberty to divulge actual numbers, checked loads on 779/780 (YYZ-SAN-YYZ) for the next few weeks. April is not yet what would be considered peak season, and with the exception of one day, every flight (to & from) is running in the 80% load factor range and higher. I would think that any airline running an operation with these numbers would be happy with these numbers, although I have absolutely no insight into cargo revenue, and the actual numbers of running the operation. If SEA can successfully run a single stand alone flight, I see no reason that SAN is unable to do the same.

Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
AC has tried YYZ (and YUL?)

There has never been a YUL-SAN connection, nor do I think it would even be considered at this point.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5280 times:

There is no cargo revenue for AC to SAN. AC does not sell cargo space on the Emb to SAN due to belly hold limitations.
Perhaps when the 319 returns we can start selling again, but there is not a lot of demand.

I think part of the problem for AC to SAN may be that the 319 is too big and the EMB only just has the legs to make it but may not be able to handle a full load of pax and all their bags.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4935 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

Air Canada has placed some restrictions on its EMJ operations that may soon be lifted. I wont go into details here, as they may be company restricted, but they are a result of a few incidents. Embraer has done a stirling job in rectifying the problem.

As a result, during off season, you may well see YYZ-SAN back again in the EMJ route system. Without these restrictions, the route is again viable for the EMJ. I had heard rumours earlier this year about a late YYZ-SAN, with an early SAN-YYZ return, but never heard anything since. Given the information about UAL's severe gate shortage at SAN, that makes sense.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5179 times:

Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
the E190 is not really suitable for the stage length of the flight

Unsuitable or simply unreliable? The E190 is a lemon. It was consistently late, mostly due to mechanical reasons. Now that the A319 is back on the YYZ-SAN route, on time performance is much, much better.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):
although I have absolutely no insight into cargo revenue, and the actual numbers of running the operation.

AC does not offer freight service on the A319 to San Diego, either. I believe it has to do with customs and bureaucratic constraints on the San Diego end. Do ramp personnel need a customs clearance to handle freight from international flights?

As for the topic, as a native San Diego, the lack of international service to my convenient local airport does not bother me in the least. San Diegans are used to one and two stop service to points on the globe. No big deal. If a business or individual wants a city with extensive air serve then, please, by all means move. We're too crowded as a region already. So if AC and or Jazz suspends service, we'll go back to one stop service to YYZ and YVR. No big deal. Most people travelling Canada-San Diego aren't taking the non-stops now anyway.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 1):
find myself wondering if the problem has to do with the San Diego Tourism Board not making enough (any) effort to market the city abroad.

I think one of SAN's problems with respect to Canada service is the fact that it is mainly a leisure market, with little high-yield business traffic compared to LAX/SFO etc. It's easy to fill a flight with tourists if fares are low enough but full flights and profits are not synonymous.


User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5163 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
AC does not offer freight service on the A319 to San Diego, either. I believe it has to do with customs and bureaucratic constraints on the San Diego end. Do ramp personnel need a customs clearance to handle freight from international flights?

At one point we did. It is more likely the cost of contracting a cargo handler is more than the revenue generated. There are no clearances needed for ramp personnel to handle intl freight, there is however all kinds of paperwork required now,that adds to the cost of setting up a cargo operation in the US.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
I think one of SAN's problems with respect to Canada service is the fact that it is mainly a leisure market, with little high-yield business traffic compared to LAX/SFO etc. It's easy to fill a flight with tourists if fares are low enough but full flights and profits are not synonymous.

I think SAN being a leisure market for Canadians sums this one up. While SAN has some high-tech business travel which makes a direct YVR flight viable, it remains somewhat questionable from places like YYC, YYZ or YUL. After all, my Canadian wife (who loves San Diego BTW since we spent our first weekend together after meeting in a Pacific Beach condo) always points out that SAN is merely a halfway leisure destination (especially during the winter) between Vancouver (YVR) and Cabo (SJD).



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSuperdawg From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5104 times:

I think another issue may be pricing, I am looking at taking my family to SAN but the tickets are usually $100 or more then flights to LAX (from YYC). So for a family of 4 you can save $400 and drive the to SAN for cheaper (assuming you were going to rent a car in SAN anyways) plus you can add on all the added attractions of the Los Angeles area. Or we can assume that people will choose the Los Angeles area over SAN due to the cost savings for the flights. So if this has always been the case (even when there were more direct flights) people may have chosen LAX over SAN and hence lower numbers on the SAN flights.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Quoting Superdawg (Reply 10):
I think another issue may be pricing, I am looking at taking my family to SAN but the tickets are usually $100 or more then flights to LAX (from YYC). So for a family of 4 you can save $400 and drive the to SAN for cheaper (assuming you were going to rent a car in SAN anyways) plus you can add on all the added attractions of the Los Angeles area. Or we can assume that people will choose the Los Angeles area over SAN due to the cost savings for the flights. So if this has always been the case (even when there were more direct flights) people may have chosen LAX over SAN and hence lower numbers on the SAN flights.

After checking the websites for YYC-SAN vs. YYC-LAX on both DL (via SLC) or UA (via DEN or SFO), you're very correct about the pricing. The catch here is that even Disneyland just to the south in Anaheim is very reachable from SAN or area hotels. The big negative about LAX is the traffic on I-405 or I-5 and how much you like gridlock and being stuck on a Southern California freeway. Having lived in Riverside for 4 years I'll let you know it sucks, and it is much worse now then it was then. When I go to SAN from SLC, or even SNA for even leisure with the family, I'll just snag a DL flight well enough in advance and rent a vehicle rather than even drive the 10-12 hours from SLC and the Wasatch Front.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):
every flight (to & from) is running in the 80% load factor range

Isn't that only slightly above the legacy carrier mainline average (75% or so overall, probably higher on a prime daytime flight)? Also, as is often mentioned on this board, yield management makes sure all of the flights are full, so it is the yield that makes or breaks a flight but it is often difficult to know what the actual yield is. Another problem is that the A319 is not very fuel efficient and that hurts on a relatively long flight like that.

I see that some people expect tourists from Canada to fly directly to San Diego. Don't forget that the entire population of Canada is only slightly larger than that of California by itself so there are not huge concentrated numbers out there and yields for vacationers are almost always low.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 12):
Another problem is that the A319 is not very fuel efficient and that hurts on a relatively long flight like that.

AC flies relatively long legs on the A319, many which are leisure/VFR based.

YYZ-POS/CCS-BGI-ANU-UVF-GND-SJO & now YYT-LHR to name a few. They all can't be marginally profitable.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
After checking the websites for YYC-SAN vs. YYC-LAX on both DL (via SLC) or UA (via DEN or SFO), you're very correct about the pricing.

Check YYC-LAX on aircanada.com and you'll really see a price difference. I'm getting $319 CAD rountrip including taxes!!


Kris



Word
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 12):
I see that some people expect tourists from Canada to fly directly to San Diego. Don't forget that the entire population of Canada is only slightly larger than that of California by itself so there are not huge concentrated numbers out there and yields for vacationers are almost always low.

 checkmark  Which is why the trans-border market is so important to Canadian Flag carries like AC and WS.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 14):
Check YYC-LAX on aircanada.com and you'll really see a price difference. I'm getting $319 CAD rountrip including taxes!!

That's the one I didn't have time to check during my break. I just focused on some of the big players in the LAX & SAN markets. At least LAX and SAN don't have outrageous car rental taxes as does SEA, MCI or MIA.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

If pricing is an issue for the consumer - that is a good thing for the airline. So we have a situation here where the flights are full and they are commanding a premium versus LA - sounds like a situation you don't want to leave.

If they want to pull SAN-YYZ (where they are getting a premium and full flights) in favor of ONT-YYZ - have fun. I can tell you what will happen in that scenario - ONT fares are lower than LA in just about every market, Toronto would be the same.



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

Here's a few idea's....

LH: FRA-YYZ-SAN

AF: CDG-YUL-SAN

BA: LHR-YYC-SAN

PR: MNL-YVR-SAN

JL: NRT-YVR-SAN



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17):
Here's a few idea's....

LH: FRA-YYZ-SAN

AF: CDG-YUL-SAN

BA: LHR-YYC-SAN

PR: MNL-YVR-SAN

JL: NRT-YVR-SAN

Funny thing. AC attempted this in their first foray into SLC from YYZ as a JFK alternative to Europe over DL and they ran from here with their tail tucked between their legs after 6 months.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4935 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
Funny thing. AC attempted this in their first foray into SLC from YYZ as a JFK alternative to Europe over DL and they ran from here with their tail tucked between their legs after 6 months.

Being one of the very few "legacy" carriers to post a profit, one has to wonder if maybe that is not a bad thing. AC is no longer a government owned airline and has no business flying somewhere simply to wave the maple leaf! That is one aspect I admire about airlines like WestJet, if its not paying the bills, they yank the route.

So ACE Aviation (parent company of AC) ran from SLC with its tail tucked between its legs ... right to the bank.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
AC attempted this in their first foray into SLC from YYZ as a JFK alternative to Europe over DL and they ran from here with their tail tucked between their legs after 6 months.

As an International gateway to Europe DL is stratospheric at JFK versus AC at YYZ. Something to be said for the expression "Cut your losses and run".

AC gave SLC a shot, it didn't pan out, and they bailed. Obviously there was a bit of a gap in market strategy and expectations and operating reality.

As LONGHAULER pointed out, AC is a private company not interested in waving the flag for prestige reasons, unless the potential for profit exists.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Quote:
LH: FRA-YYZ-SAN

AF: CDG-YUL-SAN

BA: LHR-YYC-SAN

Those are good ideas, but in the end, do they really offer any benefits to San Diego to Europe flyer over United, Delta, or American (or any legacy carrier)?

For example, if you're booking San Diego to Frankfurt, you can book on either Lufthansa or United's websites. You can book a ticket entirely on LH or UA (even on each others' website!!), and your Star Alliance miles accrue. You can route yourself via LAX (god forbid - terminal 8 to TBIT!!), SFO, DEN, ORD, or IAD.

Now LH flies a 787 into SAN, but it's still a one-stop. What if the times are not convenient? And what real incentive is there to fly the one-stop over a connection? Personally, I definitely would - but I think the airline would not only have to depend on (a) a full cargo container both ways, (b) a demand for the premium cabin both ways, and (c) full 5th freedom traffic rights between all involved cities to make it worth the time and effort.

I think the problem with San Diego - Canada is the fact that it has been found that a non-stop is only marginally profitable. Hopefully the market will pick up to allow more service to be added, but at the moment, I think the market is bearing what the demand is.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1774 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):
There has never been a YUL-SAN connection, nor do I think it would even be considered at this point.

I've only heard good things about San Diego, but the YUL-SAN O&D market is rather small and will not see non-stop service in the near future unless there is a huge increase in passengers travelling on this route. The YUL-SAN isn't necessarily tiny, it's just smaller than other YUL-Southwestern markets (LAX, SFO, LAS).


User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4724 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
As for the topic, as a native San Diego, the lack of international service to my convenient local airport does not bother me in the least. San Diegans are used to one and two stop service to points on the globe. No big deal.

 checkmark 

I think some people just like to spot planes! I have done this flight before on USAIR, it was really not much different than a non stop I think. The stop at PHX was so short I didn't have time to buy a sandwich!

Coach: $342 First: $876 9:35 AM San Diego, CA 7:27 PM Toronto, Canada 42 / 262
Stops: PHX
6 h 52 m


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4656 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
As for the topic, as a native San Diego, the lack of international service to my convenient local airport does not bother me in the least. San Diegans are used to one and two stop service to points on the globe. No big deal. If a business or individual wants a city with extensive air serve then, please, by all means move. We're too crowded as a region already. So if AC and or Jazz suspends service, we'll go back to one stop service to YYZ and YVR. No big deal. Most people travelling Canada-San Diego aren't taking the non-stops now anyway.

This kind of thinking is, in my opinion, exactly what's wrong with San Diego. We don't want to invest in our infrastructure because we think that somehow, if we make life hard enough for our citizens and their businesses, we'll be transported back to those halcyon days when downtown was a dump, but you could drive from here to LA in just over an hour.

The hangover comes when we suddenly find our tax base has dried up, and we can't even support the people who are still left. How are you going fix that deficit when SAIC is back in Virginia, biotech migrates to Florida, and Qualcomm skips town, too?

San Diego has given up a lot of opportunities because of the inadequacy of its airport facilities. Just look at the paragraph above the one I quoted, and you'll see but one of many examples. To many aviation fans, that simply means a less "exciting" mix of aircraft/liveries/etc at our local airport. But in dollar terms, what we're losing out on isn't chump change. It's this kind of service which can make or break the business climate--and hence, the quality of life--of a city.


25 SANFan : Thanks for your input Edward. (I don't recall WardAir ever running anything scheduled here; maybe an occasional charter?) The only player you missed
26 Post contains images San747 : Likely to happen... Wait for PR to free up an A340 and we're in like Flynt! Here's a question. Is the YYZ flight really doing that bad as everyone se
27 LongHauler : Wardair used to fly YYZ-SAN-YYZ twice weekly with an A310 in the late 1980's. It ended with the takeover by PWA Corp. The flight was an evening depar
28 Lindy Field : Thanks LongHauler for the info about Wardair at SAN, I'm glad my memory hasn't failed me. That must have been the first scheduled A310 service to SAN
29 FLYACYYZ : With respect to AC restoring its original overnighting aircraft schedule, and maximizing connectivity and yields, it sounds like there are severe gate
30 Post contains images Coronado990 : I heard a lady once say at an airport "town hall" meeting here in San Diego..."we're so close to L.A., do we even need an airport at all"??
31 PanAm747 : One of the reasons that San Diego is in the financial mess it is currently in is because of the belief of many very long-time residents that: They wi
32 Bicoastal : Ok, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. Look on the bright side. Surfers like me will have the waves to ourselves, no traffic, reasonable housing
33 Trvlr : If only this city could be like San Jose after the tech bust. Wouldn't that be nice! Better a chicken little than an ostrich with its head in the san
34 Bicoastal : The economy is cyclical. San Jose and the Bay Area are booming today...again. San Diego has done the same over the years. Boom and bust are expected
35 Bicoastal : The economy is cyclical. San Jose and the Bay Area are booming today...again. San Diego has done the same over the years. Boom and bust are expected
36 Bicoastal : The economy is cyclical. San Jose and the Bay Area are booming today...again. San Diego has done the same over the years. Boom and bust are expected
37 Bicoastal : The economy is cyclical. San Jose and the Bay Area are booming today...again. San Diego has done the same over the years. Boom and bust are expected
38 Bicoastal : The economy is cyclical. San Jose and the Bay Area are booming today...again. San Diego has done the same over the years. Boom and bust are expected
39 Trvlr : If only this city could be like San Jose after the tech bust. Wouldn't that be nice! Better a chicken little than an ostrich with its head in the san
40 SJCRRPAX : I'm not sure what that is suppose to mean. San Jose is doing OK. I'm a native of San Diego who has been living in San Jose for years because in my oc
41 Post contains links and images San747 : Wow! One of these guys flew into SAN? View Large View MediumPhoto © Gary Watt Those were the glory days, huh? In the mid-to-late '80s, we had se
42 Post contains links and images San747 : Wow! One of these guys flew into SAN? View Large View MediumPhoto © Gary Watt Those were the glory days, huh? In the mid-to-late '80s, we had se
43 Post contains links and images San747 : Wow! One of these guys flew into SAN? View Large View MediumPhoto © Gary Watt Those were the glory days, huh? In the mid-to-late '80s, we had se
44 Coronado990 : Yup. In the late 1980's I'd thought we'd be much further along in the international scene then we are now. Looking at the UA gates in SAN, I can see
45 SANFan : Thanks from me too, LongHauler; I sure missed that whole chapter in SAN-Canada service! I did a quick count the other day FLYAC' and found the number
46 Trvlr : The comment was not intended to address the direct effect of inadequate aviation infrastructure on a city. Rather, it was intended to illustrate the
47 Post contains images FLYACYYZ : This post is getting alot of mileage!! The fact that the route/flight is underperforming is merely speculative on our part. These and other similar po
48 DCAYOW : Why don't you ask the Convention Center Corporation and the cruise ship industry this question? The convention center uses the airport's proximity in
49 Trvlr : That might not be a bad idea, especially considering UA's CR7s have a premium cabin. However, judging from the reaction on FlyerTalk, a lot of AA fre
50 Post contains images SANFan : Yes, UA actually has 7 RON a/c every night (2 SFO, 2 DEN, 2 ORD & 1 IAD) thru their 5 gates between 6:20 and 8:30am, and, I agree, I can't believe yo
51 SANFan : Very true. Don't s'pose that has anything to do with AS (already in the market as of last Fall), and WN coming soon, and Virgin (maybe), and who-know
52 Coronado990 : This is how UA morning gate usage looks. At least from what I can tell. Correct me if I am wrong... GATE 11: 6:17am Dept to DEN UA740. Then accepts ar
53 Bicoastal : In the summer, UA has as many as 9 RONs. Right now it looks like UA is loaning two of its remote overnight spots to Aloha and someone else. They'll t
54 Post contains links SJCRRPAX : Qualcomm opposed the Miramar site, and I don't think they cared one way or the other if SAN was adequate or not with respect to international flights
55 Bicoastal : As frequent as ATC flow control is to SFO and ORD, I bet UA likes keeping a gate in reserve should a ground stop be in effect. No one likes (ask JetB
56 Trvlr : " target=_blank>http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont....html I don't think it's fair to assume that. The uncertainty and subsequent inadequacy of the
57 DCAYOW : My statement had nothing to do with Prop A. Yes, QUALCOMM opposed Miramar under the leadership of Jacobs. Like all fortune 500 companies, a day will
58 Boeing7E7 : The availability of long haul International Service causes a shift in domestic capacity from the network carriers to the International flight which p
59 LAXdude1023 : There is one thing that people forget about LAX, its not really set up to be a connection point even though airlines try to use it as one. LAX is hor
60 Boeing7E7 : Until LAX hits its capacity crunch in 2015 and tells San Diego to pound sand. SAN needs a longer runway before International Service is a potentil re
61 Trvlr : I don't think anybody disagrees that housing prices are the biggest problem here. The problem is, as NIMBY morphs into BANANA (build almost nothing a
62 SJCRRPAX : Just curious, are you dyslexic? It's spelled San Diego.
63 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : haha, actually I am. Not to mention, I typed it at about 2am last night after being awake for 20 hours.
64 Hockey55dude : When I flew SAN-YYZ the A319 was packed. It was in the summer though.
65 Post contains links RoyalAtlantis : Perhaps it's because AC's fares are SO HIGH that any leisure traveler can't afford them. AC is being too greedy...if they offered lower fares, they'd
66 Boeing7E7 : " target=_blank>http://www.iflywestern.com/where.htm You realize they don't fly there anymore, or anywhere for that matter.
67 RoyalAtlantis : Actually - I didn't realize that. Haven't kept up after the first flight....that's too bad. It was by far a less expensive option.
68 San747 : Yeah, they lasted about 3 weeks. I managed to get one shot of them at SAN before they went under, and Matt Lyons was a little luckier than I by getti
69 LongHauler : Which is probably why they are no longer in operation.
70 FLYACYYZ : AC has had three years of record load factors in the 80% plus range. Filling aircraft is something AC has absolutely no problem doing. The vast major
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