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Why Doesn't Singapore Airlines Get Rid Of A310's?  
User currently offlineQantas 747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Hi People

I was just wondering why Singapore Airlines doesn't get rid of its A310 fleet. They are the worst aircrafts in SIA's current fleet.
I think that Singapore Airlines should replace them with A320's or A330 for their more close routes

Regards
Qantas 747

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTim From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 705 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2402 times:

They probably wont be around for to much longer.

But what do you mean by: "they are the worst aircraft in SIA's fleet?" have you flown on them?
Whats wrong with them?

Tim


User currently offlineSkystar From Australia, joined Jan 2000, 1363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2393 times:

In a sense, I can understand why "Qantas 747" says that the A310s are the "worst aircraft in the SIA fleet".

They are the oldest aircraft (newest is 95, IIRC), and are starting to look tired (eg. tray tables going yellow, etc.). And I'm sure many (after reading the LH PTV thread) miss the PTVs on the other SQ craft.

SQ is in the process of seeking a replacement for the A310, but SQ hasn't found a plane to its satisfaction. Airbus' A310 replacement, the A330-500 is no real replacement for the A310 and at one point of time, I think SQ was looking at the 777-100. I don't think the A330-500 has many admirers, given that LH has basically written it off. It probably would be a fun plane to fly in, with a lowish wing loading and moderate power loading. However, at this point in time, I think AI is too focussed on its A3XX to "worry" about the A330-500. Certainly, the A3XX has a lot more prestige and pride (probably the modern equivalent of the Concorde).

SIA face the same dillema as their friend, Ansett. AN needs something to replace its ageing 762s. What aircraft can replace those 762s best? New 762s - there is no viable Airbus offering. The A330-200 is too big and too heavy to be a serious A310 replacement.

Cheers,

Justin


User currently offlineLBA From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

The problem with replacing the A310 is there isn't an equivalent. i.e. widebody with about 200 seats. This has been recognised by both Boeing and Airbus, but neither manufacturer is comitted to doing anything about it.

User currently offlineQantas 747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Thats exactly what I meant
They are looking too tired
I have flown on them before
What about the A320 ? Any considerations for them?

Qantas 747


User currently offlineGaruda From Indonesia, joined Nov 2000, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2357 times:

A320 is the best narrow-bodied airliner in my opinion, even Silk Air (SQ's little sister) is replacing their 737s with A320 families.

But, I think SQ is looking for a wide-bodied airliner similar to A310 in capacity or maybe slightly bigger, since all planes in SQ fllet are wide-bodied

JA


User currently offlineHailstone From Germany, joined Nov 2000, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

right garuda,

sq need a widebody (767 does not count, as they want WIDE body in terms of 2 LD3 next to each other), something in the 200 - low 200 seat class able to do a sin-sel/bjs etc route, eg 6-7 hours.

777 too big as far as i gather - could be going into the dircetion of a a-330 SP (special performance in terms of shortened fuselage) ??


User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 377 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Skystar! AI = Airbus Industrie, right??? for a minute i thought bankrupt Air India was buying the A3XX 


.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

There are some possibilities for the A310 replacement.

I think the A330-500 would be indeed able to replace the A310 onb certain, well most routes. It is lighter than the -200 and has less seats, so it could be used well.
And for some other routes on which the A335 is still too big SIA could send out Silk Air's A320s along with A321s which they could order.
I don't think the B777-100 would fit well as it is still a B777 and therefore too heavy, even as a shrinked plane.

Regards
Udo


User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

They have started to retire them.

9V-STI A310-222 to MEA - 3B-STI
9V-STJ A310-222 to MEA - 3B-STJ
9V-STK A310-222 to MEA - 3B-STK
9V-STL A310-222 to Hapag Lloyd - D-ASQA
9V-STM A310-222 to Belgium AF - CA-02
9V-STN A310-222 to Belgium AF - CA-01

I also heard of one being sold to RR. I'm not sure if thats one of the above or one of the -300's



User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Why doesn't SIA consider the 767-300 or 767-400 as a replacement? Or the A330? I know these are not equivalent to the A310, but just my two cents. I
really dislike the A310. It just isn't comfortable for long flights (I used to fly
Pan Am A310's to Europe from New York a lot) and an airline like SIA should
have a better short-haul product.

ContinentalEWR


User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Isn't the 767-200ER production line still open? That's probably as close as you can get these days.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13740 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2272 times:

Someone above said that the 767 ws out as they couldn't have LD3 containers or something. If so then SIA (I don't think) will get the A330. So what is there? Nothing really.

Help them!



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Isn't the A310-300 production line still open?
Trade the old 313s for new ones !


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13740 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2261 times:

Oh dear God no! SIA going to old 1980's techonology (or something). Never! I suppose the 767 is best suited. Those A310s are horrible. I flew in one. Trays are horrible, toilet has water in it!, and no KrisWorld.

They should move. Hiya Jaysit. Funny how we always bump in to eachother



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineA320FO From Austria, joined Oct 2000, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

Hey Singapore_Air,

sure, the A310 is 80's technology. But then what's the 767 ???

Answer:
Exactly the SAME OLD AIRPLANE !!! It was designed during the same time as the A310, and except for a new interior in the cockpit and cabin in the -400 series, it's time will also be over soon, too

Cheers,
A320FO


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2234 times:

Yeah, but they can always update the cabin interiors with new wall panels, seats, PTVs, etc etc.
Those are topical changes. However, SIA have a reputation of having the world's youngest fleet that they wish to protect and maintain. Guess having 15 yr old A310s doesn't comport well with that, but the average passenger wouldn't notice as long as the plane looks new and has new furnishings and the electronic gee-gaws and doo-dads that SIA are famous for.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8002 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2234 times:

Since SQ doesn't want to support the LD containers used on the 767, I think SQ ought to seriously look at a high-level rebuild program for their A310's.

My solution: completely rebuild the plane (e.g., zero-time the airframe), then install new interiors, new EFIS cockpit, and even new engines. Especially since Airbus doesn't want to start the A330-500 program.

The rebuild program could be done by the Evergreen Air Center near Tucson, AZ.


User currently offlineChiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Personally, I think 757 would be a decent replacement for the A310. It carries roughly the same pax with similar performance.

User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 998 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

If SIA could overlook the fact that the 767 can only hold LD2-containers, they would realize that the 764 is a great replacement. Specify PW4000 engines for commonality with the 744, and the 764 would fit nicely into their fleet. A little capacity boost, in both pax and cargo ( more bellyhold volume ), plus the aircraft is not too heavy, as the proposed 335. Would bee nice too see some orders for the 764, even though I seriously doubt SIA will order it. too bad..


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Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13740 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Chiawei: Well hello! No. Ok SIA did operate the 757s (although surprisingly no pictures on airliners.net). THey ditched them for the A310s. They wouldn't go back. Anyway all SIA's planes are widebodies. The 757 is not very common looking. I think the 767 is best. No I'm not too interested in cargo, but I can guess that LD3 is bigger than LD2, hence more cargo space????


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13740 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (13 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Chiawei: Well hello! No. Ok SIA did operate the 757s (although surprisingly no pictures on airliners.net). THey ditched them for the A310s. They wouldn't go back. Anyway all SIA's planes are widebodies. The 757 is not very common looking. I think the 767 is best. No I'm not too interested in cargo, but I can guess that LD3 is bigger than LD2, hence more cargo space????


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineKrisworldB777 From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 571 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (13 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

A few months ago, I was speaking with SIA's Perth marketing manager who said that SIA would probably end up replacing their A310s with the 777 because it is popular with passengers, reliable and they already operate them so it wourld mean that they would save money (not that they need to) on introducing another aircraft type.

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

The B777 is just too large and heavy to be operated economically permanently on short routes to CGK, KUL, PEN and others. They fly hourly between SIN and KUL, so I don't think they could keep these frequencies with an aircraft that is as large as the B777.
And the B767 doesn't make sense as well. It would be a completely new type in SIA's fleet. That requires pilots trained, cabin crew trained, maintenace crews trained, spares bought and so on.
The A330, if -200 or better -500 wouldn't be a completely new type as SIA already operates the A340. As those go, the A340 flight and maintenance crews could very quickly be trained (just an update), and many spares could still be used. Additionally SIA could use the RR Trent which I think is not available for the B764. A330s for A340s would be a smart move and would help to save costs. Not to forget that the A330 can take more and larger containers than the B767 and regarding the new Star Alliance cargo alliance freight is a very important issue.
And what about range? The A335 will have even more range than the -200 which means a great flexibility of the plane. It can be flown to KUL and the same day it can start to operate a flight to Europe. An option which is not given by the B764 whose range is a joke compared to the A335. I think flexibility is a big issue for SIA.

The only reason for them to order the B767 is to save the relationship with Boeing after the big A3XX deal...but I don't really think that SIA takes that into consideration while trying to get the perfect aircraft for their routes.

Oh, B757s? No way, SIA wants to keep its level of service and that is much easier by using a widebody aircraft. And reagrding the B757's cargo performance it even falls more...


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13740 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (13 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Udo: I don't think SIA wqill bother saving any kind of relationship. They are there to get the best deal. Kudos to them. Might not be fair but that's business life. I thought that it was the 767 and the A330-200 in battle, not the-500. So can you give us some range fighures for the aircraft??? I wouldn't say commonality was a big factor but after opening my eyes, I think the A330 looks nice, especially since QUANTAS has ordered some.


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
25 Udo : Unfortunately I can't give you detailled range figures of both the A332 and the A335 (I would have to check first) but I read an article just two week
26 SIA fan : Jaysit, SQ are already upgrading some of the interiors on the A310s. When I flew SIN-CGK last August, the A310 has new seat fabrics similar with the o
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