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AA To Add Winglets To All 757 & 767.  
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27967 times:
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757-200s are getting done now. 767-300s will follow suit. Lastly, the 767-200s will get done Aviation Partners in finializing developement for the 767 winglet.

Also to note, the new AA terminal at JFK can't handle a 763ER with winglets. Appropriations will be used to make those gates able to receive incoming flights.

Source: Internal.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/ringo3727/738winglet-4.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/ringo3727/738winglet-2.jpg

TUL facility.

Forgot to add, all 767 will be retrofited with glass (777 cockpit).

[Edited 2007-04-18 01:21:43]

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27913 times:

Awesome so they are the launch customers after all. Wonder who is the customer for 777-200's?


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineTristarCrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27904 times:

Kool, how soon for the 767?? assume the above pics are 757.....any 767 pic with winglets yet??


717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320.A33
User currently offlineSylvcath From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 27720 times:

Quoting TristarCrazy (Reply 2):
any 767 pic with winglets yet??

Quote:

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
767-300s will follow suit.

Leads me to believe that the 767s aren't in the shop just yet. I'm anxious to see how it looks with winglets, might add some character.

On a side note, does anyone else think that the stripes on the AA winglets appear (from a distance) to slant downward toward the rear? Could just be the curvature of the wing, but they don't look straight. Just a nitpicky observation...



"sylvcath" = Sylvan Catharsis
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 27711 times:

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
767-300s will follow suit. Lastly, the 767-200s will get done Aviation Partners in finializing developement for the 767 winglet.

Really? The 767 fleet too? I imagine the winglets will add to their efficiency as opposed to increasing the 763's range. There aren't ample crew rest quarters on the 763's to allow them on flights over 12 (?) hours, right?

The 762's must be staying for awhile longer. Well good for AA. Now if they could something about those 757 interiors...


User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 27627 times:

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Forgot to add, all 767 will be retrofited with glass (777 cockpit).

How and why? Now the 757/767 can't have the same crew.



Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27535 times:
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Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4):
The 767 fleet too?

Yes, they want the kits put on them for fuel efficiency and anticipate keeping them in the fleet for years to come. The 762s will continue to do transcon as they are very successful.

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 5):
How and why? Now the 757/767 can't have the same crew.

Not sure I understand your post. What does glass in the cockpit have to do with crews?

PS. It seems any thread to do with AA fleet management always raises one question - Are the AB6 being replaced? No.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27493 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 6):
Not sure I understand your post. What does glass in the cockpit have to do with crews?

I don't think the thread-starter made it too clear by saying that the 767s will be retrofitted with "glass" cockpits, since they came with glass cockpits straight from the factory, albeit not the newest and the latest in today's world of ever-updating technology.

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Photo © Josh Akbar


AA plans to retrofit the 767 fleet with the 777 cockpit (the 764 comes with the 777 cockpit by default), and while it would eliminate flight deck commonality with the 757, it would create commonality with the 777.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27480 times:

Those are enormous! Very cool!

I can definitely see DL fallowing suit with the 767 winglets.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27466 times:
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Quoting OB1504 (Reply 7):
I don't think the thread-starter made it too clear by saying that the 767s will be retrofitted with "glass" cockpits, since they came with glass cockpits straight from the factory, albeit not the newest and the latest in today's world of ever-updating technology

The cockpit that you have shown was the 767-400ER which has a different cockpit than the 767-200/300.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27450 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 7):
I don't think the thread-starter made it too clear by saying that the 767s will be retrofitted with "glass" cockpits, since they came with glass cockpits straight from the factory, albeit not the newest and the latest in today's world of ever-updating technology.



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 7):
AA plans to retrofit the 767 fleet with the 777 cockpit (the 764 comes with the 777 cockpit by default), and while it would eliminate flight deck commonality with the 757, it would create commonality with the 777.

Which is what he said. 767's will get 777 cockpits.

Sounds pretty clear to me!  yes 

767's with winglet kits will look nice.  yes 



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineFlyboysp From Australia, joined Apr 2007, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27426 times:

So what does this mean for the rumour that AA will sell some 757s to Fedex. Personally, i would not upgrade an aircraft then sell it off. Unless off course that the if the rumours are true Fedex may get the non-upgraded 757s  Wink

Regards
flyboysp



#proudtobeabulldog
User currently offlineEbs757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27404 times:

767's with winglets, wouldn't look so bad i guess... fixing the 757's interior wont be bad either.


Viva la Vida
User currently offlineBomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27372 times:

Are the 767 Blended winglets or are they ranked-tips?

Peace  box 



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27372 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 10):
i would not upgrade an aircraft then sell it off. Unless off course that the if the rumours are true Fedex may get the non-upgraded 757s

It is what you said a rumor... w/o base at all.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27289 times:

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 5):
Forgot to add, all 767 will be retrofited with glass (777 cockpit).

Is this a 767-400 style LCD cockpit?

I heard that 764's do not share commonality with the 777. They have a LCD based display instead of CRT's, and the gauges can be arranged in a similar fashion.

But, are you saying that now a 764 pilot can fly a 777? Will some extra training be necessary?

What about current 764 and 777 operators, like DL and CO. Can their 764 pilots also fly the 777?

[Edited 2007-04-18 03:18:33]

User currently onlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2606 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27188 times:

Wow - that winglet on the 757 looks huge! I gather the 767 winglets will be larger still?

User currently offlineTinpusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27133 times:

Why not just use the raked wingtips on the 763's like the 764's?


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently onlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 27113 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 16):
Wow - that winglet on the 757 looks huge! I gather the 767 winglets will be larger still?

AA has had winglets on its B757's for a while now... Smile

I took this photo at ORD a while back (10/2006)




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 27047 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 7):
AA plans to retrofit the 767 fleet with the 777 cockpit (the 764 comes with the 777 cockpit by default), and while it would eliminate flight deck commonality with the 757, it would create commonality with the 777

Just to add my two cents here. The 767-400 has the same type rating as the 767-300s and 757s the only difference in the cockpits is that the CRTs are replaced with LCDs and the "old" guages go away. The overhead panel and the pedestal will remain the same. Because the pedestal and overhead are the same as the 767-300's the type rating is the same and does not have the same type rating as the 777. This is just my understanding which was explained on another thread about the 767-400 cockpit. I would assume that the 767-300's would take the same cockpit as the 767-400's being that the change would be less intense. I could be wrong but this is how I understand it.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineAndrewtang From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 27011 times:

I am wondering if the thread starter actually means the following. It was a conversion done to ABX 767-200. Now full glass cockpit.


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Photo © Agustin Anaya


[Edited 2007-04-18 03:52:53]

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 26942 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 19):
Because the pedestal and overhead are the same as the 767-300's the type rating is the same and does not have the same type rating as the 777.

Then why go through the trouble of retrofitting it? Like FXRamper said, it would just eliminate commonality with the rather large 757 fleet.


User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 26846 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 21):
Then why go through the trouble of retrofitting it? Like FXRamper said, it would just eliminate commonality with the rather large 757 fleet.

Changing the CRTs to LCDs doesn't eliminate the commonality is what I was trying to say. I am not sure why a company like AA would even make the change. I can understand a company like CO or DL that has the 767-400 but other than that it seems like a waste to me. To change the type rating there are a number of rather large hoops to jump though as far as I know so I don't think the type rating will change just how the pilots see the flight information provided to them.

I hope this helps and if anyone knows better chime in and correct me but this is my knowledge.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2465 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 26824 times:

So this will make DL, UA, and US the remaining airlines who aren't getting winglets added to their larger aircraft, eh? Is CO and NW adding winglets to all of their 757s or just some of them? Its not that I have anything against winglets or anything, but I'll always prefer the classic 757 look without the winglets. On the other hand, in my mind the 737 with winglets is by far the best looking plane out there!


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 26825 times:

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):

I'm sorry, but I smell something fishy here. Isn't AA in the process of retiring their 762's?

I'll believe this when I see it.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
25 Commavia : No. AA parked about half of their remaining 762 fleet a few years back, but the 15 that are still remaining in service are not going anywhere anytime
26 NWA757boy : All of the 752s at CO have winglets now. I dont think the 753s are getting them. I'm not sure the number of 752s at NW that are getting winglets. I t
27 Post contains links ChiGB1973 : These 767 winglets have been kept a big secret. There were pictures/videos of 757s with winglets posted on the test planes, but no 767? http://www.fli
28 MPDPilot : I thought DL was getting the winglets. I can't remember where I heard that perhaps someone can help me out here.
29 FXramper : Evening to all! No, per my conversation, AA enjoys their largest 757 fleet. A few to DL, a few leases expire. No plans for a massive sell. I didn't cl
30 Kaitak744 : What are the routes the 762s are used on? Also, my understanding is that AA 777s are used only to Asia, Europe, and South America, while their 763s a
31 BoeingFever777 : They still have (15) in active that are going no where soon.
32 Kaitak744 : What are the routes the 762s are used on? Also, my understanding is that AA 777s are used only to Asia, Europe, and South America, while their 763s a
33 Commavia : AA flies them primarily on JFK-LAX (11x daily) and JFK-SFO (3x daily) plus they do a single rotation each on JFK-BDA and JFK-MIA with aircraft that a
34 Post contains images FXramper : Hey guys, I'm not talking out of my butt here, this is privileged information that after asking for permission, I was allowed to post on. I'm glad tha
35 Commavia : They have to find some, first. Without cutting routes somewhere else, there really isn't much 763 capacity to put on JFK-Europe runs, or any other ru
36 777gk : I realize it has been mentioned before, but to reiterate, AA 767s will receive the 777-style LCD panels as opposed to the CRTs, and updated software t
37 Tsaord : Sorry for my ignorance I do not have any type of knowledge about planes in the technical sense. But putting finger nail type things on the ends of pla
38 JFKPurser : Most likely, any 767s flying Hawaii routes from LAX and SFO will be dedicated to these supposed European and South American schedules. 757s can be pu
39 Post contains links and images CcrlR : For all those wondering this is the one that is certified to be used on the 767(and I think the 757). View Large View MediumPhoto © Freight-Dawg
40 Post contains images Jacobin777 : cool..thanks a lot man...I have other photos if you want them (in larger size) 2x on Sunday... I think AA has enough "slack" in the system to start a
41 TSS : Amen, brothers! I'm still convinced the real reason AA got rid of the ex-TWA 757s was because the interiors on those planes made the rest of AA's 757
42 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...interesting... ....I actually preferred the interiours of the ex-TWA 757's.....I felt the seats were more comfortable....
43 Graphic : A cockpit re-do won't affect the Type Certificate Data Sheet, so though they might need difference training, pilots will not need a new type rating t
44 San747 : As a SAN-ophile, I can't let you forget that once a week (Sat. only), AA flies a 762 on the afternoon JFK-SAN flight. As for the topic at hand, I've
45 Willyj : Read his text again... he was saying the exact same thing.
46 Fluorine : I'd love to see a 767 with winglets. But I doubt would this be a right move to install winglets on their 762 and 763, especially if the news about AA
47 Albird87 : Interesting and well done AA!!! It seems weird that they are going to get the blended winglets when the 764 has raked winglets?? Maybe the designs are
48 JustPlaneNutz : Are any 762ERs in storage and, with AA investing $$$ in them, could we see more in the fleet? FXramper, any word on upgrading the rear 763 cabin to t
49 Jpdflymhtmlb : Yes they do, my uncle flies out of BOS, sometimes he's on the 75 over to LAX, sometimes the 76...just a little bit of height difference is all he say
50 FriendlySkies : Here's my question. If AA placed that mystery order for 30 787s, which will probably begin delivery within the next 5 years, why would they invest all
51 Albird87 : last I heard that they were not going to do this but they have updated the biz class and the first section of Y with the new 777 bins. I havent heard
52 PC12Fan : Ah, OK, that's what threw me to think they were retiring them. Thanks! If it really happens, it will be cool to see.
53 EK413 : I wonder why Qantas didnt consider carrying out similar steps with its aging B763 fleet...? What are the costs involved in this retrofit...? EK413
54 HighFlyer9790 : Will the 757s get this too? will the 757/767 still be considered a common type rating then?
55 Flying-Tiger : Related to this: can we possibly see Aviation Partners developing winglets for the A300/310 as well?
56 Jfk777 : I love seeing the AA 757 with the winglets in Miami, I think they look far better then the regular 757. Continental also has many 757 with winglets fl
57 Post contains links AviationAddict : US has at least one 752 with winglets... http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1185409/M/ Not sure what their plan is for fitting the rest of the fleet,
58 Congaboy : Good question, I would guess the fuel savings over that time period provide a handsome ROI, even if it is 4-5 years. If you're managing risk properly
59 NASCARAirforce : I regularly see AA wingletted 757s coming to MCO and I remember seeing them March of 2006 at MCO. US and NW has been bringing in wingletted 757s too.
60 HighFlyer9790 : APB winglet kits, not including man hours or installation fees, cost $700,000- $2 Million, the lower end being for the 737 kits, and the higher end b
61 Vorticity : Raked winglets will increase the span of the airplane, and reduce the amount of compatible gates and taxi-ways. The -400ER has an additional 14 ft 3
62 AF022 : What is the timeline for putting winglets on the 762s?
63 Bredman1 : They are also developing winglets for the MD-80's
64 HighFlyer9790 : Would this make sense for AA to invest in those when they will eventually be replaced by a mass order? this isnt a NW DC-9 scenerio, as the MD-80 rep
65 Reins485 : This is surprising to both my dad (former AA pilot) and myself. AA historically has spent very little money on updating their airplanes and it surpris
66 Post contains links Congaboy : The ROI would happen within the delivery date of a replacement aircraft...in fact, I estimate it would happen in under 4 years. Based on the followin
67 NASCARAirforce : That would be a great investment in the long run. AA still doesn't have a definite replacement for the MD-80s, and they look to be waiting until Boei
68 MD90fan : Starting July 12, LAX-MIA will gain a 762 frequency. AA 280 LAX 0930-1720 MIA 762 AA 823 MIA 1825-2105 LAX 762
69 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....duh..silly me...
70 FXramper : AA wants to keep all 767 around for a good time and 757 additionally. That said... Most guys flying 757 at AA, are t/r for 767, and vis-versa. I would
71 Gigneil : That;s not at all the case. 767 crews fly 767-400s and 737-300 pilots fly 737-800s. This will do nothing to the pilot base except require differences
72 Akizidy214 : And your source is? Not that I don't believe you. But I am a show me type of person. And I have heard nothing about the 762/763 getting winglets.
73 Post contains images Warreng24 : Please don't mis-quote me or mis-interpert my English. My original statement meant that the 767-400 had LCD's versus the 763's and 762's which had CR
74 RayChuang : I'm not surprised that AA will retrofit winglets to their 757 and 767 fleet. The reason is simple: AA flies their 757's and 767's frequently on flight
75 RJpieces : Meaning what? How can they fix this?
76 NYCAAer : The AA winglet installation program for the 752s is nothing new, this was announced in a press release quite some time ago, along with the 738s. Ameri
77 ERAUgrad02 : Aviation Partners should put pix up on their site to give people an idea of how these will look on 767/777-200A/300A/MD-80. Wasnt there rumor of Airtr
78 Post contains links FXramper : article
79 Post contains links and images BoeingFever777 : Thanks for the link. Here is the official statement from AA.com: http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pr...Releases/2007_04/25_winglets.jhtml Just poste
80 N1120A : Increasing efficiency will increase range. Yes they can No it wouldn't Blended winglets. No it wouldn't
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