Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Mexicana Goes Double Daily To CCS  
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Thanks to fellow a.netter CivilAv for the news.

Mexicana will fly twice daily to CCS starting May 1st.

The new flight will be operated with A319 equipment via PTY without 5th freedom rights between PTY and CCS. This flight will complement the actual daily A320 nonstop MEX-CCS-MEX.

Props to MX for expanding capacity in the Venezuela-Mexico market, I hope this will bring down fares as I'm a frequent pax between both countries.

Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
without 5th freedom rights between PTY and CCS

I wonder whether it really is better for MX to route the flight via PTY than to have separate MEX-PTY-MEX (7 weekly) and MEX-CCS-MEX flights (14 weekly). Maybe the A318s could be used.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2482 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
I wonder whether it really is better for MX to route the flight via PTY than to have separate MEX-PTY-MEX (7 weekly) and MEX-CCS-MEX flights (14 weekly). Maybe the A318s could be used.

I don't understand MX... they have struggled on the MEX-PTY market every time they flew it, so now they want to fill the plane with passengers from CCS in order to keep the route until it gets the loads needed to support a year round operation. Competing against CM is not easy, so hope they flight gets a codeshare. Lets see if MX is successful with this venture in order to give each city one independent flight.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

Leaving politics aside, very good news. Caracas is a top market for Mexicana, and an important economic point in South America.

User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

Quoting Rojo (Reply 2):
so hope they flight gets a codeshare.

MX has a codeshare with CM, but it has been kinda headache with some cnx´s , mostly from CCS.....

Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
Caracas is a top market for Mexicana, and an important economic point in South America.

Indeed, maybe this will help to the saturated MX375.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
The new flight will be operated with A319 equipment via PTY without 5th freedom rights between PTY and CCS. This flight will complement the actual daily A320 nonstop MEX-CCS-MEX.

Confirmed Luis, as more frames are coming, 4 ex-AC birds, right now XA-MXG and MXH are already flying, XA-MXI arrived from YMG apr18, and still one more to arrive, also a brand new A320 will arrive next month.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
Maybe the A318s could be used

It´s been asked actually for a MTY-CCS route, was told that it was asked for Maracaibo, but maybe we will ask again for the MTY-CCS, BTW, Luis, thanks for the info, already sending it to the management.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2994 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Selman



Back in the 90s until MX took over the route in 99, the flight was operated by Servivensa with a B727-100s as CCS-PTY-MEX. I don't know its frequency, but it wasn't a daily flight. Mexico and Venezuela were generally speaking not very big trading partners so there wasn't much demand for travel between the two points. During those times, it was actually more common for Venezuelan tourist to visit Mexico (Cancun was destination of Viasa) because even in the early 90s Venezuela was in a different situation. The added demand must be generated by the large investments that Mexican based multinationals have placed in Venezuela, plus other factors. For example, Femsa, one of the largest Coca-Cola producers in Latin America invested heavily in Venezuela and has had its share of problems with Chavez and its union followers. Cemex is another one that has a very evident operation in the country - it isn't uncommon to see Cemex trucks along the La Guaira - Caracas road now that they're building the new portion. After the PDVSA strike, many highly skilled workers in the Petro-chemical sector were hired by companies that offer contract work to PEMEX, so there tends to be small communities of Venezuelans in the areas of Mexico where PEMEX has large operations. Perhaps this and other interesting facts help us understand the large surge in demand for the route.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 5):
Perhaps this and other interesting facts help us understand the large surge in demand for the route.

Yes Latinplane. There is a growing demand for seats between Venezuela and Mexico because of heavy investment by Mexican multinationals in that country. You have to add Bimbo (bakery, with nationwide distribution) and Sidor (the one and only iron and steel processing mill Venezuela has supplying all internal demand plus exports).
Additionally, most medicines are now manufactured in Mexico and exported to Venezuela as foreign laboratories shut down their operations in the mid to late 90s and multinationals like Colgate Palmolive, Procter and Gamble and Unilever produce from detergents to shampoo in Mexico for export to Venezuela. That, too, generates a lot of business related traffic.

Another and very important reason why there has been an apparent boom in demand is the fact that, up to August 2003, you could transit through the States without a visa and you could get lower fares for the trip. Today, if there is no US visa on your passport or you are not in possession of a Visa Waiver programme passport, that option is out so traffic has had to be direct or via Panama (which Copa very expeditiously and cannily exploited for several years).

Mexicana has got to get its act together for COPA already operates very efficiently 3 daily flights to Mexico City, 1 daily to Cancun and soon there will be Guadalajara too.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 6):

Thanks for the response, you made some pretty good points..


saludos


User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2883 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 6):
Yes Latinplane. There is a growing demand for seats between Venezuela and Mexico because of heavy investment by Mexican multinationals in that country. You have to add Bimbo (bakery, with nationwide distribution) and Sidor (the one and only iron and steel processing mill Venezuela has supplying all internal demand plus exports).
Additionally, most medicines are now manufactured in Mexico and exported to Venezuela as foreign laboratories shut down their operations in the mid to late 90s and multinationals like Colgate Palmolive, Procter and Gamble and Unilever produce from detergents to shampoo in Mexico for export to Venezuela. That, too, generates a lot of business related traffic.

Actually we will have to add some traffic between MTY connecting to Puerto Ordaz, mainly for the Oil, also with the cement, CEMEX has about 2 or 3 plants in Venezuela, and they are one of the most frequent travelers leaving MTY.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2482 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2873 times:

Quoting N405MX (Reply 4):
MX has a codeshare with CM, but it has been kinda headache with some cnx´s , mostly from CCS.....

I like to see what will happen with MX's codeshare with CM when the latter joins Skyteam. This should happen in the next 6 months, so now AM FF will be able to earn miles with CM and CM would have to cooperate a lot more with AM...


User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
I like to see what will happen with MX's codeshare with CM when the latter joins Skyteam

Yes Rojo, that would be interesting and one can appreciate MXs current manouvres as indicative of a gradual "shaking off" of the CM codeshare. Indeed, Copa was to start the second daily to Cancun back on March 1st and, owing to incredible lobbying and political pressure from Mexicana this had to be postponed till April.
Negotiations took place at high Panamanian and Mexican government level to make Mexicana understand that this was allowed for under the new bilateral signed a year ago. I had quite a few cancellations to deal with because of this (I generate quite an interesting amount of traffic from Cancun to points in South America with Copa through my business).

Greetings from Cancun !


User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2729 times:



Civilav: It is always great to have your input - you always bring much valuable knowledge to any discussion. And like I mentioned, here is a wonderful TV commercial from 1988 advertising Avensa's MEX - PTY - CCS route. This must have been made after AeroMexico (Aeronaves de Mexico) withdrew from the route when it went bankrupt in1988, and after the new AeroMexico was formed which did not take the fleet of old DC-8s that where specifically used on the South American runs.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

I have to correct myself. Avensa never took over the route from the old AeroMexico; Avensa was actually flying to MEX before 1988.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://web1.jetphotos.net/images/img...YV125Cjun93MMUNcn908.jpg.83980.jpg

I have also found this interesting picture of Viasa's 727 taxing at CUN. Cancun used to be a popular destination for Venezuelans and it is precisely the reason why Viasa flew to CUN on a twice weekly basis. Mexicana at point in around 2001 also flew the CUN-CCS route, but by this time Venezuela's situation had deteriorated and the route did not perform as expected.

~~~~~~~~~~~~


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Manuel Ernesto Silva



And let's not forget the rigorous inspection that Mexicana's flight to CCS receives before it departs CCS, and again when it arrives in MEX. Here you see the dog sniffers inspecting the flight in search of Colombian drugs before it departs to MEX.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 41
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 12):
And let's not forget the rigorous inspection that Mexicana's flight to CCS receives before it departs CCS, and again when it arrives in MEX. Here you see the dog sniffers inspecting the flight in search of Colombian drugs before it departs to MEX.

sadly here in CCS even the anti-drug dogs are corupt, not only the the guards....



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 6):
Mexicana has got to get its act together for COPA already operates very efficiently 3 daily flights to Mexico City, 1 daily to Cancun and soon there will be Guadalajara too.

Don't you forget that from the Venezuelan side, CM flies twice daily to CCS and daily to MAR. Talking about oil-related travel, there are 2 possible Embraer CM destinations that would really make many people in the oil-business happy, those could be PZO in Venezuela and VSA in México..
Now with CM flying to GDL, it seems there'll be some GDL-Venezuela traffic.. Some big Oil companies have their Mexican headquaters overthere.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
Don't you forget that from the Venezuelan side, CM flies twice daily to CCS and daily to MAR. Talking about oil-related travel, there are 2 possible Embraer CM destinations that would really make many people in the oil-business happy, those could be PZO in Venezuela and VSA in México..

CM should increase CCS to a 3 daily flight, I think we have good chances once CM start the 3rd and 4rd bank in PTY, a noon departure from CCS would be really great (morning departure from PTY).

Regarding PZO, not only the oil-business would be happy with such a flight, do not forget big mines, and steel companys are located in PZO, all have a lot of internacional business.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2633 times:

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
I like to see what will happen with MX's codeshare with CM when the latter joins Skyteam.

It can ends, maybe not...

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
CM would have to cooperate a lot more with AM...

Like AF and KL ?; here in MTY we are getting used to lot of misscnx with AF and KL checked very short to MX when they have another 2 or 3 flights with AM...... in case thos pax are MX´s loyal, thanks, but mostly are AM loyal passengers that don´t understand why they got MX´s flight.

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 12):
And let's not forget the rigorous inspection that Mexicana's flight to CCS receives before it departs CCS, and again when it arrives in MEX. Here you see the dog sniffers inspecting the flight in search of Colombian drugs before it departs to MEX

The flight has beend delayed even 1hr because of narcotics inspections and all that stuff.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 15):
Regarding PZO, not only the oil-business would be happy with such a flight, do not forget big mines, and steel companys are located in PZO, all have a lot of internacional business.

Actually MX was focusing on the MTY-MAR flight, but maybe there will be more advantages of PZO.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 12):
Avensa never took over the route from the old AeroMexico

LatinPlane,

Allow me to add these bits of historical facts to your knowledge.
Until barely a few years ago (already with the Chavez Administration in power), the bilateral between Mexico and Venezuela allowed for "flag carriers" only to carry out service between both country's capitals.
VIASA had begun flying to Mexico City as long ago as 1962 with Convair 880-22M equipment 3 times a week with one weekly via Maracaibo. This stop in Maracaibo lasted till 1965 only as Mexico complained of unfairness.
Services continued, on the Venezuelan side, non-interrupted till 1985 with VIASA.

Indeed, between 1971 and 1973, Aeromexico and VIASA carried out a pooled service with VIASA DC-8 equipment which meant flights were non-stop twice a week from Caracas to Mexico City with Venezuelan crew and from Mexico City to Los Angeles via La Paz (Baja California) with Mexican one. This was a cosy arrangement that came to grief equally owing to Mexican political meddling. It served both airlines well and, once more, between April and October 1973, VIASA flew a third frequency between CCS and MEX with a stop in MAR with DC-8-33 equipment. (purchased from KLM in Sept. and Oct. 1972).

Both countries went through a lot of change in their economic environment between 1982 and 1983 with devaluations, inflation, controls, etc and, though services continued in 1985 VIASA told the Venezuelan Government it was abandoning the route.

Through a much-derided Presidential Decree in September 1985, the then Venezuelan Government abandoned the term of "flag carrier" in its air bilaterals and paved the way for Avensa to enter the fray and take up services to Mexico and to Panama (services to Panama had been abandoned by VIASA since the mid 70s). Avensa began flying to Panama and to Mexico (with no traffic rights between those cities) as of July 1986 initially with 727-100 equipment, later with 727-200 Advanced and even, in the early to mid-90s with 737-300. Avensa suspended all operations to Mexico City in 1998.

In the meantime, VIASA which in August 1991 had been "privatised" and was under Iberia management, decided to start services to Cancun (a city which is allowed a special air traffic regime) as of 1992 using old ex-Iberia 727 equipment. These continued on a thrice-weekly basis till the airline's demise in January 1997.

What I want to make clear, as you yourself have pointed out, is that Avensa NEVER replaced any Mexican carrier on the route. Rather, it replaced a Venezuelan one which claimed Mexico City was unprofitable with the equipment it operated then (VIASA standardised on DC-10-30 frames as of 1985 and the route definitely could not support financially such an operation).

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
could be PZO in Venezuela

As far as I know, Copa has no further plans to open new services in Venezuela.
Maracaibo is still not up to daily status yet and Puerto Ordaz lacks customs and immigration services for the time being.
As to Mexico, though Villahermosa might make a lot of sense, I can assure you it will be quite some time, if ever, that it gets services from Copa.

Greetings from Cancun !


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Taca Goes Double Daily LIM-CCS-LIM posted Sun Feb 4 2007 22:48:08 by Avianca
LX To JFK Goes Double Daily posted Thu Dec 15 2005 12:01:41 by Knightsofmalta
Air Canada Daily To CCS Summer Season posted Mon Apr 9 2007 19:53:40 by Fabi727
CO Goes Double Daily EWR-LIS For Summer '07 posted Thu Feb 8 2007 05:28:20 by JAL777
LH Goes Double Daily On FRA-EWR posted Thu Apr 6 2006 13:11:54 by DABVF
Emirates Double Daily To Hamburg posted Mon Mar 6 2006 12:22:16 by EK156
EK Double Daily To Perth posted Wed Feb 8 2006 12:17:05 by EK156
EK Double Daily To Zurich posted Wed Jan 18 2006 16:33:08 by AirMale
Qatar Goes Double Daily Into Colombo posted Thu Sep 1 2005 16:58:32 by Zizou
Emirates Double Daily To Dusseldorf & B777-300ER posted Tue Feb 1 2005 22:28:38 by Udo