Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
United Pilots Turn Down T/A  
User currently offlineShortsquat From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 25 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9588 times:

This wasn't too unexpected, but the news is just out --http://airlinepilotcentral.com/resources/news/united_pilots_reject_tentative_agreement_20070420224.html

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9567 times:

Actually it was out about 3 hours ago

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070420/united_pilots.html?.v=1

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9461 times:

I predict another summer of hell at United. Not enough crew, captains refusing to defer minor maintenance items, lots of cancellations. Make alternative plans on other airlines if you really have to be somewhere.

Thank you UAL Board of Directors and Glenn for your exceedingly bad judgement.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9437 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):
I predict another summer of hell at United.

Even the pilots aren't stupid enough to pull that again!

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineIPFreely From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9421 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):
I predict another summer of hell at United. Not enough crew, captains refusing to defer minor maintenance items, lots of cancellations. Make alternative plans on other airlines if you really have to be somewhere.

Will anyone notice a change?  Smile


User currently offlineTozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9289 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 3):

Even the pilots aren't stupid enough to pull that again!

We won't have to. However, United management is stupid enough to let it happen again. They simply do not have enough crews in place to fly the Summer schedule. Hell, they don't have enough crews in place to fly the schedule they have now! They cancelled SFO-NGO, SFO-KIX, and SFO-SEL a few weeks ago over the span of 2 days for lack of 777 crews. The T/A would have solved their manpower issues by having the widebody pilots fly 96 hours a month and spend up to 340 hours away from base each month! No thank you Glenn. After his 40 million dollar bonus and my 60% pay cut, I will fly the schedule I'm given and do my job EXACTLY as outlined in our ops manual and contract, and nothing more. This Summer is going to suck, but it won't be the pilots fault. We'll probably get blamed, but it won't be out fault.



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9272 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):
captains refusing to defer minor maintenance items

you know actually, a captain cannot legally defer maintenance items. Anything wrong with the aircraft has to be written up. Now, do pilots sometimes do this, yes. But keep in mind, even though they are trying to help the company every time they do this they are putting their liscence on the line.


User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9174 times:

l

Quoting Tozairport (Reply 5):
They cancelled SFO-NGO, SFO-KIX, and SFO-SEL a few weeks ago over the span of 2 days for lack of 777 crews. The T/A would have solved their manpower issues by having the widebody pilots fly 96 hours a month and spend up to 340 hours away from base each month! No thank you Glenn. After his 40 million dollar bonus and my 60% pay cut, I will fly the schedule I'm given and do my job EXACTLY as outlined in our ops manual and contract, and nothing more.

United management has been known to make stupid mistakes ALWAYS!!!!
I too would be pissed off too if my CEO is getting close to $40Mil and I'm taking a pay cut......
I can already feel it "SUMMER OF HELL" is creeping at UAL this summer.....





Yet, it's started already with spring breaks. UAL had so many flights cancelled due to lack of crew it wasn't even funny.


User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9109 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 6):
you know actually, a captain cannot legally defer maintenance items. Anything wrong with the aircraft has to be written up.

Have you ever seen a MEL? Anything with an (O) before the description means that the pilot is allowed to defer the item for maintenance. I don't know if United's MEL has any (O)'s in it, but if they're there, it can be done legally.


User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9084 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 8):
Anything with an (O) before the description means that the pilot is allowed to defer the item for maintenance. I don't know if United's MEL has any (O)'s in it, but if they're there, it can be done legally.

No, never seen one. But it has been described to me by a dispatcher I know. Some things can be deferred, some cannot. I understand that. I stand by what I said though. A crew has to make the write up. The the MEL dictates what actions have to be taken.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

Quoting Tozairport (Reply 5):
After his 40 million dollar bonus and my 60% pay cut, I will fly the schedule I'm given and do my job EXACTLY as outlined in our ops manual and contract, and nothing more.


But in all fairness the pilot union did get ridiculous and unsustainable raises in the Goodwin era. I know you are going to say "but the company agreed to it". It was agreed to ultimately by Goodwin, who was put in place after the pilots ousted Edwardson because they didn't usually agree with him and saw Goodwin as a better choice.

Goodwin was selected and supported by the ALPA members of the BOD. Goodwin was the one who ultimately spent hundreds of millions on imposable ventures such as Avolar, the US Airways merger and United Loyalty Services. United Loyalty Services (ULS) was set up by the former CFO put in place by Goodwin and then that CFO went on to be president of ULS (who actually made more then Goodwin). Most profitable ventures were transfered to ULS such as the Red Carpet Clubs, Mileage Plus, and so on. This is all stuff that was and now, after bankruptcy, is handled by United employees. ULS has their own marketing, HR, PR and so forth that was really quite unnecessary. Why spin those off? Once those large profit centers were moved away UA's margins started to drop. Money for operations and additional capital spending were borrowed from the pensions by Goodwin. Instead of using this money for updating the fleet of the profitable world wide freight division or updating the passenger fleet, he tried to start Avolar. Once again millions down the toilet. Once the freight division started to loose customers due to reliability problems with the DC-10's they once again started loosing money but couldn't afford to replace them now with all the biz jets on order. So by this time UA's credit rating was going in the toilet so he was paying cash for the 777 fleet and buying older aircraft off leases so that the rates wouldn't go up with the lower credit rating. This was a huge mistake. He was spending the liquid assets with little thought of future down turns. Most of these older aircraft were owned when new but sold to lease company's and leased back so they could be returned when retirement was necessary. Now cash was not open for operations so loans were taken out against the aircraft at high rates. Then the pilots were fighting for large pay increases while the balance sheet was damaged and Goodwin was doing his best to cover this up and show profits to keep wall street happy. The airline desperately needed to move routes to smaller express RJ's to help move back to profitability but the pilots scope clause prevented that. He would not give in on the clause of no limits on RJ's. This was the summer of 2000. We all know what happened then. The airline was trying not to hire new pilots and rely on the OT of the pilots until they could put the RJ's in place and downsize the mainline fleet. The pilots were not happy with the idea of unlimited RJ's in the fleet so they passed on OT and refused to fly with differed maintenance on aircraft. This drove passenger away from the airline in drones and ruined the UA name for reliability and depressed the revenue. He signed a large increase for the pilots in exchange for the removal of limits on the number of 50 seat RJ's in the United Express fleet. The thought was that they could decrease costs as a hole by operating more routes at mainline revenue with express RJ's making up the difference pilot salary. It didn't turn out that way. Then 9/11 happened and the airline was desperately low on cash and a ton of owned aircraft with large high interest loans. The airline quickly grounded the 727/732 fleets and tried to sell any thing and everything they could. The airline couldn't sell the fleet that was parked because everyone was downsizing and didn't need the aircraft. Then Goodwin sent out the parish email and he soon perished. United desperately tried to liquidate hard assets and clean up the mess that Goodwin made. They looked around and found some one who was good at what he did, Glen Tilton. He wasn't the cheapest but UA already experienced what a bad CEO can do to the company and was fighting for their life. From Glens point of view he has a great job with a good pension and UA had to provide a very lucrative package to bring him over. From the start he tried to clean up the mess. He knew that contracts made by the company previously were not sustainable. However, there was not enough time. The airline tried for subsidized airline loans from the government but we all know why those didn't happen. United entered into bankruptcy to protect its operation. There was nothing they could do...they were in bankruptcy. There was no changing that. So given the circumstances UA used this opportunity to cleanse the finical state of the airline. Everything from leases on the aircraft to toilet paper contracts were scrapped and re-contracted. When all was done, every stone was turned, UA emerged from bankruptcy.

Glenn saved the airline and deserves every penny he gets in compensation. If Edwardson was in power instead of Goodwin this airline would be in a much better position and pensions would more then likely still be around.

So next time some UA pilot tells me that it was evil management that ruined UA, I just think of what the pilots did to UA because they wanted an easier CEO.

I don't shed a tear for those pilots.

-m



[Edited 2007-04-21 05:14:07]

User currently offlineGlobalATL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8996 times:

Is it any wonder why nothing gets done for the common good. Aren't airlines in business to serve the transportation needs of the flying public?

User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8804 times:

Guess I was the only one to click to learn what the heck T/A was and discover it wasn't what I thought.

User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1291 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8777 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 10):
Glenn saved the airline and deserves every penny he gets in compensation. If Edwardson was in power instead of Goodwin this airline would be in a much better position and pensions would more then likely still be around.

First, something you did several years ago does not deserve continued compensation in perpetuity. Second, a pilot's job is to fly a plane, a CEO's is to run a company. Until pilots are getting paid bonuses at over 1000% of their yearly salary for doing their job well, neither should the CEO.


User currently offlineZvocio79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 6):

you know actually, a captain cannot legally defer maintenance items. Anything wrong with the aircraft has to be written up. Now, do pilots sometimes do this, yes. But keep in mind, even though they are trying to help the company every time they do this they are putting their liscence on the line.

Pilots can not deffer items on their own, it is the maintenance controlled that deffers the item, and only if its on the MEL book and requieres not maintenance action.
may be the pilots are making up stories......you know how it is when they don't wanna go flying.


User currently offlineUAL777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1556 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8721 times:

Quoting Zvocio79 (Reply 14):

Pilots can not deffer items on their own, it is the maintenance controlled that deffers the item, and only if its on the MEL book and requieres not maintenance action.
may be the pilots are making up stories......you know how it is when they don't wanna go flying.

Ummmm, I defer stuff all the time. If it is not on the MEL, defer it. BTW, for those who don't know, MEL= Minimum Equipment List.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

All I would say is that if the Pilots do start buggering around which I dont think they will, I think that there are a lot of FA's that will be really pissed off with them!. I travel a lot on UA and have chattedd to hundreds of FA's, the majority of which felt they got screwed over big time compared with the Pilots. I always remember a story on a flight from LHR to ORD and was discussing this not long after all groupd had taken a large cut........The FA was saying that a pilot got on her flight doing the pre checks and that they were all discussing company matters and the Captain said that he was well pissed off as it meant he may have to give his second home up in Maui...........you can imagine how well that comment went down when some FA's were wondering how the hell they were going to maintain their first property!!! In saying this, IMHO , I think a lot of Pilots have realised that the wages they earned were outrageous and hopefully common sense will prevail this time....I hope!

User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8582 times:

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 15):
If it is not on the MEL, defer it. BTW, for those who don't know, MEL= Minimum Equipment List.

Every airline I've worked for, if the item isn't in the MEL you can't defer it.


User currently offlineCirrusDriver From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 3):
Even the pilots aren't stupid enough to pull that again!

No????????? June 1st. Mark it...............


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8361 times:

Quoting Tozairport (Reply 5):

We won't have to. However, United management is stupid enough to let it happen again. They simply do not have enough crews in place to fly the Summer schedule. Hell, they don't have enough crews in place to fly the schedule they have now! They cancelled SFO-NGO, SFO-KIX, and SFO-SEL a few weeks ago over the span of 2 days for lack of 777 crews. The T/A would have solved their manpower issues by having the widebody pilots fly 96 hours a month and spend up to 340 hours away from base each month! No thank you Glenn. After his 40 million dollar bonus and my 60% pay cut, I will fly the schedule I'm given and do my job EXACTLY as outlined in our ops manual and contract, and nothing more. This Summer is going to suck, but it won't be the pilots fault. We'll probably get blamed, but it won't be out fault.



Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 10):
They looked around and found some one who was good at what he did, Glen Tilton. He wasn't the cheapest but UA already experienced what a bad CEO can do to the company and was fighting for their life. From Glens point of view he has a great job with a good pension and UA had to provide a very lucrative package to bring him over. From the start he tried to clean up the mess. He knew that contracts made by the company previously were not sustainable. However, there was not enough time. The airline tried for subsidized airline loans from the government but we all know why those didn't happen. United entered into bankruptcy to protect its operation. There was nothing they could do...they were in bankruptcy. There was no changing that. So given the circumstances UA used this opportunity to cleanse the finical state of the airline. Everything from leases on the aircraft to toilet paper contracts were scrapped and re-contracted. When all was done, every stone was turned, UA emerged from bankruptcy.



Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 10):
So next time some UA pilot tells me that it was evil management that ruined UA, I just think of what the pilots did to UA because they wanted an easier CEO.

....what people don't realise is that he took a company basically in Chapter 7 and revived it......he came from a very lucrative oil backround to save the sinking ship.....

Quoting IADCA (Reply 13):

First, something you did several years ago does not deserve continued compensation in perpetuity. Second, a pilot's job is to fly a plane, a CEO's is to run a company. Until pilots are getting paid bonuses at over 1000% of their yearly salary for doing their job well, neither should the CEO.

better to take a pay cut (and not having to displace one's family) than to start over in another company after the company files Chapter 7 and liquidates....

..IIRC, pilots also got stock of the newly-listed company (UAUA)

....I don't know why people don't understand that?  confused 

.......no one is stopping pilots, F/A's ect. from going to school and going into management....its a matter of "wanting to do it"....granted some can't (due to age, family requirements, etc.) but many can....

" Arpey received a Bachelor of Business Administration Degree in 1980 and an MBA in 1982, both from the University of Texas at Austin. He also holds a FAA Multi-Engine Instrument Pilot Rating and is an avid private pilot.

Arpey is a member of The Business Council, serves on the McCombs School of Business Advisory Board at the University of Texas at Austin, and is also involved in a variety of civic organizations. "

http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/co...porateInformation/bios/arpey.jhtml



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBirdbrainz From United States of America, joined May 2005, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7638 times:

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 11):
Is it any wonder why nothing gets done for the common good. Aren't airlines in business to serve the transportation needs of the flying public?

In theory yes, but like all businesses, they're there to make money. Obviously, if the service is horrible for too long, it will catch up to them.



A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
User currently offlineSixtySeven From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 15):
Ummmm, I defer stuff all the time. If it is not on the MEL, defer it. BTW, for those who don't know, MEL= Minimum Equipment List.

Do you know what you are talking about? Your quote makes no sense. The MEL provides relief for inoperative items. You can't defer something that isn't in the book.

For instance, next time you decide to defer stuff, go ahead and look for Wing, or Engine. They're not in the MEL because they're somewhat required for flight.

I'd say that the next time you try and lecture someone, you should have at least a marginal working knowledge of the subject matter.



Stand-by for new ATIS message......
User currently offlineSuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

This really bums me out. I don't know anything about management, I know nothing about being a F/A, and I know very little about being a pilot. All I know is that I love flying United (just came back from Tokyo last Saturday on them, one of the best flights I have ever been on), and I was thinking to myself I was glad all this was over so United can return back to the great airline it was/is. I guess I'll be holding out a little longer. I really hope everything can get resolved.


Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlineMovingtin From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7088 times:

Quoting SixtySeven (Reply 21):
Do you know what you are talking about? Your quote makes no sense. The MEL provides relief for inoperative items. You can't defer something that isn't in the book.

Hmmm, worn carpet, not in the book. inop coffeemaker, not in the book. galley latches, not in the book! So according to you, the plane is no-go??? not hardly. All airlines have a procedure for defering non safety of flight items. At my airline these Non-essential items dont even require a balancing maint entry until the aircraft transits thru a company staffed maint Station.

The placarding of a flight crew placard-able item is up to the crews discretion. If the crew is out to make a point, they use their discretion by refusing to placard an item and ask for Maint to come out. If you are at an Non-maint sta, then a contract provider has to be called out to placard the item. All fully proper and by the book!

[Edited 2007-04-21 16:14:48]

[Edited 2007-04-21 16:16:02]

User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6964 times:

Quoting Movingtin (Reply 23):
Hmmm, worn carpet, not in the book. inop coffeemaker, not in the book. galley latches, not in the book! So according to you, the plane is no-go???

Not quite. Those are customer furnished equipment and not covered by the MEL. They are non-safety items and generally logged in the cabin log book. If an item isn't in the MEL or CDL there is no relief. Here's a quote out of our MEL:

The MEL also does not include items which do not affect the airworthiness of the aircraft such as galley
equipment, entertainment systems, passengers convenience items, etc.
It is important to note that ALL ITEMS WHICH ARE RELATED TO THE AIRWORTHINESS OF THE AIRCRAFT
AND NOT INCLUDED ON THE LIST ARE REQUIRED TO BE OPERATIVE. Exceptions are items which have
serviceability specification contained in the manufacturer's Aircraft Maintenance Manual (AMM), Structural
Repair Manual (SRM) or other approved manufacturer's manuals/drawings. In this case, XXX Engineering
will advise the dispatchability of such items with the relevant extracts from the AMM, SRM or other approved
manufacturer's manuals/drawings.


Quoting Movingtin (Reply 23):
The placarding of a flight crew placardable item is up to the crews discretion. If the crew is out to make a point, they use thier discretion by refusing to placard an item and ask for Maint to come out. If you are at an Non-maint sta, then a contract provider has to be called out to placard the item. All fully proper and by the book!

Again, if you read any MEL you will find out if the crew writes something up it's either fixed, or MEL'd. If it's MEL'd then there is a placard system to be followed. It's not up to the crew to do the placard, it's up to maintenance and they will follow the MEL. If it's contract maintenance, then so be it. It's no more or less expensive to have them come out since they're already there. We use contract maintenance in ANC and they meet every flight and will either fix or MEL things as required.

[Edited 2007-04-21 16:32:25]

25 Jetdoctor : Movingtin Totally agree with you statement. A deferred item does not have to come from the MEL book. Items can be deferred witha reference to the airc
26 Jetdoctor : PhilSquares There are many items in the MEL that are permitted to be crew placardable. The crew will write the discrepancy up, contact a maintenance c
27 PhilSquares : Another quote from our MEL: The affected or associated indicator, controls or switches in the cockpit must be placarded and isolated as per the MEL.
28 Jetdoctor : PhilSquares Obviously you MEL procedures give you no relief on crew placards. I should add, that any of our crew placardable items, require no MTX act
29 TristarSteve : We have a similar system in BA also. If the MEL requires no maintenance action, or where the defect is considered non-airworthiness, and the defect i
30 Mcdu : Guys and Gals, This TA turndown will have very little if any implications to the traveling public. Many of you know I am a UAL pilot and I will share
31 GlobalATL : United has been in turmoil ever since the ugly Wolf paid them a visit.
32 Post contains images Rwy04LGA : No, I too clicked to see what the buzz was all about only to realize that I was thinking of T AND A!
33 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Thanks for the recap. It is always good to get all points of view. I agree that ALPA has become too focused on revenge to realize that they are destr
34 F9Animal : Is it me, or is Tilton and his team anti employee? You can only snatch out of a persons wallet and time so many times, before all hell breaks loose. I
35 Graphic : Its completely illegal to defer something that isn't listed in the aircraft's MEL.
36 Mcdu : Tristar, We furloughed 2,100 +/- and have offered recalls to all of those pilots. On the way down the list a pilot could say no and bypass to the nex
37 DTWAGENT : When is UA management going to wake up???? They need to clean house and get new blood in the top management area. The workers have suffered alot and t
38 Charlienorth : Not quite.,items that are decorative items such as cabin wall trim,missing paint on the exterior,repair of dents,some fluid leaks may be deferred for
39 Jetdoctor : Quoting Graphic (Reply 35): Its completely illegal to defer something that isn't listed in the aircraft's MEL. I see that some people really need to l
40 Mcdu : Guys, FIghting over the minutia of the MEL is a bit akin to the ALPA/MGMNT battle. Take a deep breath. Keep it civil and keep it above board. No one a
41 QueenofDaSkies : We are a FABULOUS airline....this is just another "kink" that needs to be worked out and it will be. Thanks for your continued business!
42 Movingtin : Did you read any of the posts above yours??? I can list literally hundreds of things that can be defered that aren't listed in the aircrafts MEL!!
43 Charlienorth : Fully agree...to get back on track,was there anything in the T.A. that was a positive for the pilot group?
44 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...even though I only fly AA now, growing up in north Chicago suburbs and now living in the Bay Area, I've always seen UA as my "hometown" carrier an
45 Mcdu : There were two big items that were considered pluses for the pilots. The 737 and 320 pilots would fall under the same pay rules as the 757/767/777 an
46 Post contains images Charlienorth : It's ballsy that they are still trying to squeeze everyone...still is a good operation,but it is amazing how slooow they are during normal contract n
47 IPFreely : In his haste to post something, I believe movingtin got his logic reversed.
48 Jetdoctor : Me thinks Movingtin's logic is quite fine I don't want to get this off topic again. Maybe the MEL's can get deferred to Tech/Ops, and stick with the U
49 Tozairport : Man, I've been trying to stay away from this thread for two days, but all of this drivel is starting to get to me... Wrong. Our raises appeared to be
50 Post contains images UAL777 : Thanks guys
51 FreequentFlier : Incorrect, there is nothing particularly special about WN's management. Their hedging group deserves most of the credit here. The reason that WN was
52 Post contains images N174UA : While they're both U.S. airlines, the validity for comparison ends there. Two very different business models, two very different cost structures. One
53 Tozairport : I'd take that bet. WN was smart enough to do the fuel hedges in the first place, I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to maximize their revenue p
54 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Even if i did work for UA (which I don't)...my compensation would have changed just as all groups have. oh and for ESOP you got two seats on the Boar
55 Tozairport : You said: Since the FIN campaign is currently what is going on, I figured that is what you meant. What in blazes were you talking about then???? What
56 Post contains images FreequentFlier : Please stop making sense! WN doesn't mint money. Their management is not exceptional by any stretch of the imagination. Hell, they're trying to disco
57 UAL777UK : Oh boy, what planet have you been on. Next time you fly, when the FA's get on, why dont you come out with that comment again.........make sure Door 1
58 Jawed : Wow, what guy would ever turn down some T & A?
59 Tozairport : Tell me what I said that wasn't factually correct. No emotion or chest beating, but tell me where I was wrong. I'm not belittling the cuts that ANY e
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Turn Down Service Question? posted Tue Dec 12 2006 00:18:32 by Boeing 747-311
United Pilots To Make A Strike Prep Committee posted Thu Dec 7 2006 22:36:38 by KarlB737
United Pilots In Asia posted Thu Feb 10 2005 01:17:37 by BRAVO7E7
Judge Rejects Deal With United's Pilots posted Fri Jan 7 2005 18:33:48 by SHUPirate1
United Pilots Abroad:if They Are Sick? posted Fri Jun 6 2003 11:53:10 by 777-500ER
United Pilots Ratify Critical Contract Changes posted Fri Apr 11 2003 22:21:14 by N777UA
United Pilots Reach Concession Plan posted Thu Mar 27 2003 21:36:18 by N777UA
United Pilots: Airline Seeking Break-Up posted Wed Jan 29 2003 22:22:09 by Flyingbronco05
United Pilots Approve Pay Cuts posted Tue Jan 7 2003 23:09:57 by UAL1837
United Pilots Back Out posted Thu Aug 22 2002 01:00:48 by Ual777contrail