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AA To SSA And/or REC In '08  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Most exhaustive article so far on American Airlines' plans to fly to Salvador and/or Recife in Northeast Brazil starting in early 2008:

Article in Portuguese:
http://www.portugaldigital.com.br/si...cia.kmf?noticia=6014907&canal=159L

The basic gist is that American Airlines is planning to begin flights from Miami to Recife and/or Salvador at the start of 2008, as long as they get ANAC approval. The flights would be operated by 757-200s. It does quote an AA official, and puts an end to the speculation of what AA's first NE Brazil destinations will be, although Recife and Salvador where always the front runners.

Ending other speculation, it also says that while Delta has shown interest in flying to Northeast Brazil, those plans for the long-term, not the short-term.


a.
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

Great news! It will be interesting to see how well the load factors are. From what I hear AA is actual looking at using a 763 on a MIA-SSA due to cargo and a 757 on a MIA-REC routing. There is also talk of MIA-ASU starting back in 2008 with a 757 as well. South America is AA cash cow AMR needs to stop toying around an make it happen!

[Edited 2007-04-21 18:57:43]


DCA
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 1):
There is also talk of MIA-ASU starting back in 2008 with a 757 as well.

AA wants to re-start Miami-Asuncion in December if Paraguay exempts them from the mandatory travel agent commission. Paraguay has shown some willingness to work with them, so we'll see.



a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4696 times:

Great news! Will both flights require 2 aircraft or can AA operate successfully (and profitably) with one each, without red-eyes in both directions?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3):
Great news! Will both flights require 2 aircraft or can AA operate successfully (and profitably) with one each, without red-eyes in both directions?

AA plans on having redeyes to SSA/ASU/REC and daylights from.



a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4678 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
AA plans on having redeyes to SSA/ASU/REC and daylights from.

Great. Thanks.


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
AA plans on having redeyes to SSA/ASU/REC and daylights from.

What sort of frequency would you expect for these MIA-ASU/SSA/REC routes? Daily?



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8868 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4603 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 1):
There is also talk of MIA-ASU starting back in 2008 with a 757 as well.

AA wants to re-start Miami-Asuncion in December if Paraguay exempts them from the mandatory travel agent commission. Paraguay has shown some willingness to work with them, so we'll see.

On a wild swing here. . . any chance AA could fly to ASU through MAO?

It's one stop less than TAM/TAM Mercosur offer right now (and probably anytime soon), plus cargo from MAO. Perhaps they could even offer a 767(-200?) service. Supposedly JJ is doing well on MAO-MIA too.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

AA 757 service to Recife is going to be a loooong flight. Is the demand to Salavador de Bahia much greater than other cities in Brazil to allow for 767 service?


"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4465 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 7):
On a wild swing here. . . any chance AA could fly to ASU through MAO?

No...They will leave that for TAM if they want to fly that route. Unlikely though.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 8):
Is the demand to Salavador de Bahia much greater than other cities in Brazil to allow for 767 service?

If a 763 is chosen it would be for cargo purposes. Although everytime I go to SSA there are alot of people connecting in GRU headed to MIA and JFK.



DCA
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 7):
On a wild swing here. . . any chance AA could fly to ASU through MAO?

Mark mentioned that American was considering MIA-ASU-EZE-ASU-MIA as a routing, getting around the current US-Argentina Bilateral.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Ending other speculation, it also says that while Delta has shown interest in flying to Northeast Brazil, those plans for the long-term, not the short-term.

I wonder what WorldTraveler has to say about that, I'm surprised to hear that considering that Delta has been expanding at a breakneck pace.


User currently offlinePU752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 10):
Mark mentioned that American was considering MIA-ASU-EZE-ASU-MIA as a routing, getting around the current US-Argentina Bilateral.

If AA returns to ASU that would be just MIA-ASU-MIA no tags on, thats my guess, also I dont see this flight operating daily freqs.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 4202 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 10):
Mark mentioned that American was considering MIA-ASU-EZE-ASU-MIA as a routing, getting around the current US-Argentina Bilateral.

That was the original plan, but the US and Argentina have signed a new air treaty that will be allowing AA to expand service to Argentina without having to find ways to get around it.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 10):
I wonder what WorldTraveler has to say about that, I'm surprised to hear that considering that Delta has been expanding at a breakneck pace.

Not surprising at all. The market for Brazil-USA, outisde of Rio/Sao, is still small and developing. Until Brazil drops US visa ristrictions, it is heavily dependent on Brazil-originating traffic. Brazil-originaintg traffic is largely going to South Florida, with the rest pretty much just going to Orlando and NYC. Outside of Atlanta-Salvador, a market does not exist for Atlanta-NE Brazil.

Quoting PU752 (Reply 11):

If AA returns to ASU that would be just MIA-ASU-MIA no tags on, thats my guess, also I dont see this flight operating daily freqs.

A frequency has not been decided, but AA wants to run it daily. It isn't a great yielding route, so running it daily can help make up for less than stellar yield.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3963 times:
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Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 8):
AA 757 service to Recife is going to be a loooong flight. Is the demand to Salavador de Bahia much greater than other cities in Brazil to allow for 767 service?

In terms of US services, yes, demand for SSA should be bigger than several others cities in Brazil except for sure São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. SSA become a good base of US Investment in industry (like Ford Motors) and hotels. It's the 3rd largest base of US hotels established including some in resorts, incredible places like Porto Seguro, Ilheus, Sauipe and Itamaraca. Also US Ambassador said recently that a new consulate will be established in Brazil and IMO will be in Salvador.
SSA is nowadays the fastest growing airport in Brazil with around 20% p.a. since january 2006.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3863 times:
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WHY has it taken almost 20 years since AA purchased EASTERN'S routes for Recife to be part of the AA's Brazil network ? AA had the same 757's 10 years ago and could have operated the rutes now being talked about. Too BAD

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3844 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 14):
WHY has it taken almost 20 years since AA purchased EASTERN'S routes for Recife to be part of the AA's Brazil network ? AA had the same 757's 10 years ago and could have operated the rutes now being talked about.

The market is developing. Ten years ago, AA would never have been able to profitably fill a 3-4x weekly 757 to the Brazilian Northeast. I know VARIG served some of these markets for years with 767s, but if memory serves, they were basically glorified scheduled charters -- i.e., the flights followed a set schedule (I think 1-2x/week) but were basically subsidized charters paid for by some of the local resorts. Those kind of economics would never have worked for AA.

Today, with U.S. tourism to the region growing (albeit more slowly than it should because of visa restrictions) and with the economic ties between the two countries rapidly expanding, these markets now make sense.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3791 times:
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Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 14):
WHY has it taken almost 20 years since AA purchased EASTERN'S routes for Recife to be part of the AA's Brazil network ? AA had the same 757's 10 years ago and could have operated the rutes now being talked about. Too BAD

Because Brazilians use to accept with no problem connections 3 hours far from their cities. Now AA and DL focus on explore services to the Northeast because of strong competition in other markets (Domestic & Europe), the higher fares on South America (DL and AA use to sell Economy Deep-Discount Fares for US$ 1,000 on flights 1 to 2 hours more than Europe) and the fact it's a protected market and competition (even from Brazilian Airlines) is not expected during the next 2 years.

Just need to see the huge investment made by Europe in the northeast during the past 5 years: more than 20 resorts ready or under construction, dozens of hotels and "posadas", hundreds of restaurants, Europeans account for more than 40% of new real estate developments...

IMO, lack of vision from US Airlines and Hotel Chains. One depends on the other ! If someone says that it's a matter of visa, i'm sorry but is the way Brazil runs the game: UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands.. no one requires visa for Brazilians, and all of them keep offices to attract Brazilians as well as Brazil do the same.

North Americans are 5 years delayed in terms of Northeast.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3714 times:

North Americans are 5 years delayed in terms of Northeast.

Couldn't agree more. The northeast is the secret of the world. It's got a lot to offer, lots of "paradise", cheap to the wallet, and people are incredibly friendly. I flew many times the 4 hour flight from AJU-GRU only to wait a few more hours before heading back north to the USA. Come on American and Delta! You will be welcome...and bring your American friends with you!!


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 17):
Come on American and Delta!

As the article points out, Delta won't be flying to Northeast Brazil anytime soon. I think it is likely you will see them fly JFK-GIG in the next 1-2 years.



a.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

It is becoming a lot closer to reality, and more details have been announced. American Airlines is planning to fly MIA-REC and MIA-SSA at 4x weekly each in November as long as ANAC says yes.

(Portuguese only)
http://oglobo.globo.com/viagem/mat/2007/04/23/295470947.asp

Also, Manaus is planned for summer 2008, and Fortaleza for late 2008/early 2009.



a.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3608 times:

Congrats on AA solidifying their dominant position in the Central America/South America flights...but could they bloody expand elsewhere too?

AA is leaving too many gaps in Africa and Asia.....possibly even in Europe....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

As the article points out, Delta won't be flying to Northeast Brazil anytime soon. I think it is likely you will see them fly JFK-GIG in the next 1-2 years.

"Soon" is not defined and the very fact that they are talking and even publishing intent is major. The northeast is anxious for this service whether it's tomorrow or in 5 years, the point is the northeast is ready for whoever gets there first. I was simply pointing out Delta because DL had been talked about in here as starting service. As far as I have read from the threads, those are the only 2 that I remember showing interest.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
IMO, lack of vision from US Airlines and Hotel Chains. One depends on the other ! If someone says that it's a matter of visa, i'm sorry but is the way Brazil runs the game: UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands.. no one requires visa for Brazilians, and all of them keep offices to attract Brazilians as well as Brazil do the same.

Why do you seem to exempt the Brazilian government from any blame? It's the way Brazil runs the game, thanks to the government's own stupidity. It keeps the country with that label forever: "Country of the future".

As for these other countries not requiring visa from Brazilians, it's time to set the record straight. There are lots and lots of illegal immigrants from Brazil in Europe. LOTS! Go to London, Milan and Paris and they are everywhere. This is due to the lack of economic opportunities in Brazil, which is a consequence of how the government stifles investment and places hurdles on different sectors of the economy, like receptive tourism. Getting a Schengen visa is a pain, but maybe it is time to require one for Brazilians.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3530 times:
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Quoting Incitatus (Reply 22):
Why do you seem to exempt the Brazilian government from any blame? It's the way Brazil runs the game, thanks to the government's own stupidity. It keeps the country with that label forever: "Country of the future".

I don't exempt. I only said that Europe allows Brazilians to fly without visa even with a large number of illegal immigrants because they need them, and they know that all the others travelling as requested (business or leisure) represents up to 3 million people and EUR 7 billion every year.
I'm trying to explain that the fact that in Brazil we have around US$ 20 billion invested by Europeans (and forgive me but there's lots of illegal people in Brazil also from Latin America and even Europe) because of the air-link created in the near past. If you are looking for a hotel, it's easy to find out a Melia, an Iberostar, an Atlantica, a Sofitel / Accor / Ibis, Pestana, a Sol, Villa Gale... all of them... from Europe ! You can find 1 Holliday Inn in Salvador, 1 Holliday Inn in Fortaleza... no Hilton, no Hyatt, no Sheraton, no Marriot... looking for restaurants, it's easy to find Portuguese cuisine, Spanish, French, Italian... no Americans (only Mc Donnalds and Dominos Pizza fast food...). This is the matter i'd like to raise. Illegal immigration happens, and you need to check how many people lives in Brazil illegally, there are rumors about 1 million people !

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
It is becoming a lot closer to reality, and more details have been announced. American Airlines is planning to fly MIA-REC and MIA-SSA at 4x weekly each in November as long as ANAC says yes.

Nice news Mark, hope that ANAC really keep it's word and allow AA to run such flights as it will be very important to increase the US investments in the northeast, a land of opportunities now. As there are some land available there even for ethanol, it could helps more AA to fill the flights with premium traffic.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 21):
"Soon" is not defined and the very fact that they are talking and even publishing intent is major. The northeast is anxious for this service whether it's tomorrow or in 5 years, the point is the northeast is ready for whoever gets there first. I was simply pointing out Delta because DL had been talked about in here as starting service. As far as I have read from the threads, those are the only 2 that I remember showing interest.

I was able to speak to a Delta rep just this past week, and "soon" is defined: Delta currently has no plans to fly to Northeast Brazil, even though they had been investigating the options. They are going to look at how they can grow in Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro first, because the Northeast market is still too thin, especially to serve from Atlanta.



a.
25 Post contains links Gte439u : Yes, that is what Veja says. However, few are U.S. citizens. Brazil is, however, the fourth largest sender of illegal immigrants to the U.S., and by
26 Post contains images PPVRA : I'm gonna echo Felipe and say that illegal immigration happens, and I believe one of the main points he was trying to make is that this VISA restrict
27 AF086 : That would be a great move by Delta. Is their connection network at JFK good? Interesting moves! Keep us posted please Mark.
28 B4REAL : I hate calling you on things... Are you sure? Salvador/Bahia is growing heavily from international investments. Continental Tire and Ford in Camiçar
29 Dellatorre : This is incorrect! Traffic Brazil-USA outiside Rio/Sao is not small, in fact is leven larger, 60 to 70 % is connecting traffic, only 40-30 % is O&D g
30 2travel2know : Talking about hotels in SSA, there are 2 Marriott hotels in Costa do Sauípe. About AA in REC and SSA, maybe AA after a while will consider flying MI
31 LipeGIG : Thanks for the correction, just to remember also it's not in the city, it's a resort a little far from Salvador it self. Agree 100% and also to remem
32 B4REAL : Yes, I am too amazed at the positive economic impact (shopping) that the Brazilians do. The electronics are understandable but also clothes and many
33 MAH4546 : No, TAM does not lose. Their MIA-SSA flights are ran because TAM has lucrative tourist contracts with local resorts in Salvador, and sells vacation p
34 Incitatus : For business I agree. But for personal travel it is a hurdle on both directions. Among my circle there are Americans who don't go to Brazil because t
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