Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Heathrow's New Tower Goes Live  
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6480 times:

Flights have been reduced in anticipation of a switching-over and getting-used-to period but no technical problems reported.

It also marks the start of EFPS at Heathrow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6578967.stm


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

How come it has taken them awhile to get using the new tower - AFAIK it seems as though the tower has been built for a while now.

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

We flew Tehran-Heathrow today and stopped in Prague, part of the reason was the anticipated delay into LHR, which, in the end, never appeared! Millenium bug tactics from those responsible!

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

It has been more than 1 year since NATS took control of the tower from the builders. It was a in a green condition and systems need to be installed, tested and drilled before the tower can go live.

Running in parallel was controller training on the new equipment and drills for the switch over. It's all brand new. Plus EFPS which changes the way controllers work. It's been a multi-dimensional task.

It's a whole lot more complicated than getting IKEA to fit your newly bought kitchen.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineLan1981 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6340 times:

Operated in & out of LHR today with no delays..did not hear of any other delays, so well done to all involved! I must admit I find the tower design a little uninspiring...operated into OSL today - Oslo's tower looks much more interesting from an aesthetic point of view, and it only receives a fraction of LHR's traffic - I don't want to sound like a moaner, but in these days of cutting-edge/interesting design concepts for airports, I thought LHR's tower would look different!

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

Does anybody have any idea whats going to happen to the old tower.is it being knocked down? It would make a for a great viewing area but somehow that will not happen me thinks!!

User currently offline6YJJK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

BBC News report from upstairs, showing the view and some of the positions:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/new...k/video/89000/bb/89793_16x9_bb.asx

How accurate the commentary is, who knows  Wink


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 3):
We flew Tehran-Heathrow today and stopped in Prague, part of the reason was the anticipated delay into LHR, which, in the end, never appeared! Millenium bug tactics from those responsible!

What a totally ill informed comment. Given the problems NATS have had over the last 12 years or so with Swanwick and the revamp of the Scottish ATC system they are being cautious in the causes of safety and avoiding another embarrassing public relations debacle.


User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
Quoting HUYfan (Reply 3):
We flew Tehran-Heathrow today and stopped in Prague, part of the reason was the anticipated delay into LHR, which, in the end, never appeared! Millenium bug tactics from those responsible!

What a totally ill informed comment. Given the problems NATS have had over the last 12 years or so with Swanwick and the revamp of the Scottish ATC system they are being cautious in the causes of safety and avoiding another embarrassing public relations debacle.

I somehow don't think it would have been NATS advising Airlines to tech stop due to anticipated delays into LHR, that decsion I think would be down to the airline. NATS have only been advising airlines that there could be delays, it is then down to the airline to how they interpret that and what they do.


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Quoting Theginge (Reply 9):
I somehow don't think it would have been NATS advising Airlines to tech stop due to anticipated delays into LHR, that decsion I think would be down to the airline.

You are probably correct. My comment was aimed particularly at the "Millenium Bugs tactics" nonsense.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
What a totally ill informed comment. Given the problems NATS have had over the last 12 years or so with Swanwick and the revamp of the Scottish ATC system they are being cautious in the causes of safety and avoiding another embarrassing public relations debacle.

But apart from the very delayed start (for about 6 years?), swanwick has suffered no major technical problems. The various stoppages have all been down to either the ageing FDP at west drayton or the datalink between west drayton and swanwick. What else are you referring to?

[Edited 2007-04-22 18:12:57]


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

I have a question - with slots being so precious at Heathrow, how do they "reduce traffic" for special circumstances like these?

User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5425 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 11):
But apart from the very delayed start (for about 6 years?), swanwick has suffered no major technical problems. The various stoppages have all been down to either the ageing FDP at west drayton or the datalink between west drayton and swanwick. What else are you referring

Nothing, but the media has a very long memory and often wishes to compare apples and pears and make mountains out of molehills.

BTW, I was working on other projects with the CEO of NATS during the design and build of Swanwick and provided NATS, and the key players in both the Swanwick and the Scottish Centre debacles, with various forums at which the problems were discussed and the parties made their case to the industry as a whole - so I've a pretty good idea of what went on in both instances.


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 12):
how do they "reduce traffic" for special circumstances like these?

They don't. They reduce the flow by introducing flow management and space aircraft off the stacks at longer intervals. At busy times this backs up leading to longer times in the hold, slower speeds on approach to the TMA and, in the worst cases, delayed take off for Heathrow bound journies.


User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5307 times:

I flew on Virgin 045 from LHR-JFK exactly 12 hours after go-live (14:00 on 21/04/07) and we had no delays at all. Our pushback occurred precisely at 14:00.

Reggaebird


User currently offlineLHRBlueSkies From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5273 times:

I guess one of the reasons why the design of the new tower is so 'unimaginative' (personally I think it's pretty cool - and the view awe-inspiring!) is that it had to be constructed off-site, and then towed from the airport perimeter to the it's final location, and slowly pieces plugged into place, much like the construction of a crane. Remember, it's location is directly next to a live taxi-way!  banghead 

As for the old tower, spotters (sorry, enthusiasts!) have been begging for it to be turned into a viewing platform - great location but not going to happen due to current security climate. Others have suggested a restaurant, which is a bit of a non-starter, as the actually viewing gallery if you like, would seat maybe 10 people, and getting the food up there a logistical nightmare. The stairs/ladder up is a touch steep!  scratchchin 

I think it will be demolished and make way for something else, part of the Heathrow East project maybe?

PhilB - you seem to be in the know, any ideas, clues, suggestions?!?!



flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

Im sorry, but that has got to be to ugliest tower I have ever seen. Just my opinion.

User currently offlineAussieindc From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 17):
Im sorry, but that has got to be to ugliest tower I have ever seen. Just my opinion.

does it really matter what it looks like if it does its job and keeps everyone safe? It's what's on the inside that counts!!!!  wink 


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 16):
PhilB - you seem to be in the know, any ideas, clues, suggestions?!?!

There is a floor below the tower cabin which I used to hire every December for the Welcome Drinks Party after the first sessions of my annual ATC conference.

I used to time the event so that everyone would be in place to see the evening Concorde departure which, on a wet early December evening with all the lights of the airport, the aircraft's afterburners lit and the ligts in the room turned down, made a magnificent sight. To see the CEOs of many of the world's ATC bodies, senior management of equipment providers and the odd government minister jostle for places as close to the window as possible was proof that even hardened professionals can be moved by interesting and beautiful aircraft.

Some of the floors would make good viewing galleries but, until the UK government comes out from under its current paranoia umbrella and, instead of trying to ban everything, seeks workable and secure solutions to the enthusiasts' needs, I dare say the tower will either become another office block or be demolished (if the Listed Buildings people don't get it listed as an icon of late 1940s/early 1950s design.


User currently offlineRTFM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 6):
Does anybody have any idea whats going to happen to the old tower.is it being knocked down?

Hopefully - yes! I am sure that this will incur the wrath of many people who want to preserve some notional image of a 'glamorous' past at LHR but frankly the central area needs all the help it can get to improve facilities, traffic flow, etc and preserving what is basically a brick blob for the sake of it would seem to be trying to preserve a very short period of history for the sake of it.

Just my opinion but LHR has enough constraints on it without the burden of rose-tinted nostaligia......


User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

Concerning the (now) old tower, I was informed by an ATCO (albeit quite some time ago!) that it would stay in working order as a 'back-up' tower.

User currently offlineEmirates029 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Thread starter):

It also marks the start of EFPS at Heathrow.

What's EFPS?


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 16):
I think it will be demolished and make way for something else, part of the Heathrow East project maybe?

PhilB - you seem to be in the know, any ideas, clues, suggestions?!?!

It will stay as said above as a back up tower. There is a lot going on inside apart from the cab. Various equipment, servers, a tower simulator in the basement, lots of offices, conference rooms...

NATS owns the tower. BAA doesn't. BAA can rebuild T2 a dozen times and the old tower will still be there. No chance it is going to be knocked down.

Quoting Emirates029 (Reply 22):
What's EFPS?

Electronic Flight Progress Strips. No more paper madness in the cab.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 23):
NATS owns the tower. BAA doesn't.

Can you point to something to substantiate that? If I recall correctly BAA owns all the buildings within the airport central area and they have also commissioned and own the new tower.. NATS are tenants having won the contract to supply tower services at LHR on a contract basis, exactly as they have had to do at other airports where they provide ATC.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 24):
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 23):
NATS owns the tower. BAA doesn't.

Can you point to something to substantiate that? If I recall correctly BAA owns all the buildings within the airport central area and they have also commissioned and own the new tower.. NATS are tenants having won the contract to supply tower services at LHR on a contract basis, exactly as they have had to do at other airports where they provide ATC.

I agree with Phil. My understanding is that BAA owns the physical building that is the tower - NATS provide the equipment inside it as part of their contract to supply the services.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
25 Post contains links Philb : Furthermore, when I hired the room in the old tower for my Welcome events I had to negotiate with and pay the BAA and use their caterers. Further proo
26 Post contains images Gr8Circle : ...and how much do you really know about the "millenium bug tactics"? A lot of poeple enjoy ridiculing the hype over Y2K, how it never really happene
27 Brilondon : I agree completely with Gr8Circle. If something did go wrong with the new tower, contingencies were in place to deal with it. It was great to hear th
28 Post contains links and images BA0284 : I was on the BA426 on Saturday which takes off at 06:35, one of (dont think THE) first ones to go from the new tower, but it seemed fine, no problem a
29 Socalatc : There is something about a beautiful tower at your airport. The tower is something everybody sees, and stands out. Believe ME I know the importance o
30 ATCGOD : Very well put, and I can back up everything you just said.
31 Zeke : Cloudyapple, All reports is that it is working as advertised, some minor issues with the greens and stop bars, and PDC ACARS issues (maybe aircraft e
32 Philb : Now Cloudyapple, instead of posting yet another press release, how about either proof of your statement: as I previously requested or a retraction.
33 Cloudyapple : I was referring to the old tower. It was a legacy from the privatization frenzy of the 80s and 90s. It was built for the RAF initially in 1955. While
34 Post contains links Philb : What does that mean? Are you calling me a liar? I used the tower for welcome parties in 1994/5/6 and 1997. I paid the BAA for the privilege and paid
35 Cloudyapple : I did not accuse anyone of anything. Last I know I am being accused of posting rubbish. Please refrain from putting words in others' mouths. Please a
36 Philb : I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth I quoted your riposte to my factual statement. Your riposte makes me out to be a liar. What part of your wo
37 Srbmod : Since a few of you few want to argue over something not exactly related to the discussion at hand, the thread is being locked.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New BA Website Goes Live posted Tue Nov 7 2006 09:28:42 by EI787
New Website For Jetblue Goes Live 9/21 posted Wed Sep 20 2006 21:34:53 by Crogalski
New Look EasyJet Website Goes Live posted Thu Aug 18 2005 20:28:45 by EZYAirbus
TAAG's New 73W Goes Intercontinental! posted Thu Feb 15 2007 17:00:59 by JoKeR
New Tower For O'Hare posted Thu Feb 1 2007 01:54:36 by WestJetYQQ
FAA Says LGA To Get New Tower posted Fri Sep 29 2006 14:27:57 by Jumbojet
Heathrow's New T3 posted Sat Jul 1 2006 05:23:21 by Kaitak744
Katl : New Tower Is Up And Running! posted Sun May 7 2006 02:57:41 by Litz
New Tower At ADS NOW IN USE posted Mon Feb 27 2006 03:59:57 by COAMiG29
ATL New Tower In Operation? posted Thu Dec 8 2005 20:27:02 by BR715-A1-30