Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
KL672 YUL-AMS  
User currently offlineMarkChief From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 27 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5109 times:

Hi,

I want to know why this flight is often delayed? Is the use of MD11 on this route have an impact on the delays?

Cheers,

Mark

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

KL671/672 is the weak point of the KLM longhaul operation these days, as it is one of the last MD11 operated flights to leave AMS, and any MD11 irregularity, of which there are many, will often impact this flight. KL671/672 is very often operated by replacement aircraft (B74E, B744, B772). Over the past 2 days, KLM even leasen a Martinair (MP) B763ER to operate the YUL roundtrip, and last night's KL672 YUL AMS is delayed overnight until Sunday morning because of crew related issues pertaining to the MP B763. Given the MD11s questionable dispatch reliability and the heavy flying program for the MD11 fleet, it is more than likely that many more operational irregularities will occur with KL671/672 over the course of this summer.

User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4983 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
Over the past 2 days, KLM even leasen a Martinair (MP) B763ER to operate the YUL roundtrip

Seems like a very effective way of loosing customers to other carriers to me...
I read the CUR flights also have been operated by the MP 767 and customers weren't very happy, especially the ones that booked WBC and end up in the Premium Economy section of MP.

Edit: Doesn't AF have spares available that could do the KL rotations? Yes, it does involve two ferry flights but I don't know how happy I would be choosing KLM again if they would put me on a 767 in charter config for 8 hours.

[Edited 2007-04-22 12:44:24]

User currently offlineMatt From Canada, joined May 1999, 692 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4947 times:

I will be flying YUL-AMS in May and was wondering the same thing as MarkChief. I noticed that in the last two weeks, however, it had done pretty well, although several types were operated: MD11, 777, 744 (and now an MP 763).

A few questions for HB-IWC:

1. When a 777 or 744 is used to operate the flight from AMS to YUL when the MD11 becomes unavailable, how do they deal with the crew issues? In the past two weeks, they've used different equipment and the flights were still on time. This has to involve some planning (usually the day before) to ensure that a front-end crew is in place to fly the return flight the next day, right? Would the crews deadhead the day before?

2. It's strange that last night's flight (Saturday p.m.) would be delayed due to "crew issues" as the Friday flight was also operated by an MP 763. A crew should have already been in place (unless they deadheaded somewhere else to operate another flight).



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4969 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

KLM should try to save-face on this route and put an A330 or B777. The A330 has 6 more J seats than the MD11, this really is a non-issue all things considered.

Over the course of the last 2-3 years, KLM671/672 has been quite often signficantly delayed or cancelled. Im sure frequent flyer's on this route has been affected in one way or another.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Quoting Matt (Reply 3):
1. When a 777 or 744 is used to operate the flight from AMS to YUL when the MD11 becomes unavailable, how do they deal with the crew issues? In the past two weeks, they've used different equipment and the flights were still on time. This has to involve some planning (usually the day before) to ensure that a front-end crew is in place to fly the return flight the next day, right? Would the crews deadhead the day before?

To the best of my knowledge, they fly in cockpit crews from New York, where there are always a mix of B772 and B747 crews available. Our friend SK601 should be able to answer this question with more accuracy.

Quoting Matt (Reply 3):
2. It's strange that last night's flight (Saturday p.m.) would be delayed due to "crew issues" as the Friday flight was also operated by an MP 763. A crew should have already been in place (unless they deadheaded somewhere else to operate another flight).

As far as I know, the Friday inbound crew deadheaded elsewhere, so the Saturday return flight was forced to use the same crew as the Saturday inbound crew. The flight finally arrived in Amsterdam about 15 hours late.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 4):
KLM should try to save-face on this route and put an A330 or B777.

The problem is that the A332s and B772ERs are also scheduled to the very limit. What KLM should do, I believe, is to set up a more realistic widebody schedule that caters for more spare capacity, because with the dispatch reliability problems of the MD11 fleet, there are major disturbances to the longhaul network almost daily. Just yesterday KL681/YVR, operated by MD11, left AMS almost 8 hours late because of yet another technical issue and no spare capacity available.


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2321 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

Since the AMS-YUL route is the most effected, and given that aircraft substitutions seem to be frequent, roughly what percentage of the time does this route receive the MD-11 that is scheduled to fly it?


There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4377 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
roughly what percentage of the time does this route receive the MD-11 that is scheduled to fly it?

My rough estimate would be that about 25 percent of the flights are operated by replacement aircraft. If we put MD11 for MD11 substitutions into the equation, the percentage would even be quite a bit higher. I estimate the dispatch reliability of the MD11 for flight KL671 in the vicinity of 60% only.


User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 503 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting Matt (Reply 3):
It's strange that last night's flight (Saturday p.m.) would be delayed due to "crew issues" as the Friday flight was also operated by an MP 763. A crew should have already been in place (unless they deadheaded somewhere else to operate another flight).

Last night's delay was just a case of bad luck: one of the crew members (supposedly cockpit) had fallen ill.


User currently onlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3288 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4339 times:

For how long does KLM intend to keep their MD-11 in their fleet?

User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 8):
Last night's delay was just a case of bad luck

I wonder who's responsible for the costs caused by the delay in this case, KL or MP?

The flight came in last night while I was just leaving the airport, 15 hrs late as stated, at almost 10PM, so not a connection available anymore. All the passengers had to be rebooked, given a boarding pass and a hotel. Poor things, after the long wait on YUL another long night in AMS.

How much longer will MP operate the flight? Any chance of seeing you at the gate, 76er  Wink? KL groundstaff handles the departure.



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 10):
All the passengers had to be rebooked, given a boarding pass and a hotel. Poor things, after the long wait on YUL another long night in AMS.

Did they try to reroute anyone thru CDG?
I reckon it is far cheaper to fill up all the AF flights YUL-CDG to 100% with connecting passengers instead of keeping them overnight in AMS. For the O&D traffic a delay of 15 hours would be bad enough on itself, but at least you sleep in you own bed that night  Wink


User currently offlineMatt From Canada, joined May 1999, 692 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 11):
Did they try to reroute anyone thru CDG?
I reckon it is far cheaper to fill up all the AF flights YUL-CDG to 100% with connecting passengers instead of keeping them overnight in AMS. For the O&D traffic a delay of 15 hours would be bad enough on itself, but at least you sleep in you own bed that night Wink

I had the same exact question. Why not send some of them through CDG with AF (which has 2 flights a day)? Of course, maybe those flights are full, but I believe AF is running two 744s a day at the moment).

Also, because of all these problems with the YUL flight, is there a chance that KL changes the aircraft used for the summer period? Or are all the other aircraft deployed on other routes for the summer?



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1636 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4203 times:

I'm also flying KLM YUL-AMS in May and I'm hoping for no delays outbound as I have a meeting to attend in the Netherlands... and a 777 substitution inbound just because I want to fly their 777. It's too bad KLM is keeping the MD-11 on the YUL route for so long and I agree it may eventually scare off regular passengers if the delays get much worse. I'm seeing so many KLM 747s and 777s now over my home. Does anyone know when do they plan to put the A330 on the route?

User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

Hows the KL 871/872 flight to DEL doing with the MD-11?? Does it also get delayed like the YUL flight??


come fly with me
User currently offlineMarkChief From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

Look at this... I compiled all the flights for the AMS-YUL-AMS (KL671/672) for a period of 31 days from March 15th to April 14th. The aircraft type for this flight is normally a MD11...


DATE KL671 KL672 A/C TYPE

15 - - -
16 PH-BFU PH-BFU Boeing 747-406M
17 PH-BFR PH-BFR Boeing 747-406M
18 PH-BQI PH-BQI Boeing 777-206/ER
19 PH-BQI PH-BQI Boeing 777-206/ER
20 PH-BFB PH-BFB Boeing 747-406
21 PH-BFB PH-BFB Boeing 747-406
22 PH-BFN PH-BFN Boeing 747-406
23 PH-BFI PH-BFI Boeing 747-406M
24 PH-BFO PH-BFO Boeing 747-406M
25 PH-BQF PH-BQF Boeing 777-206/ER
26 PH-KCA PH-KCA McDonnell Douglas MD-11
27 PH-KCB PH-KCB McDonnell Douglas MD-11
28 PH-BFB PH-BFB Boeing 747-406
29 PH-BFB PH-BFB Boeing 747-406
30 PH-BFH PH-BFH Boeing 747-406M
31 PH-KCB PH-KCB McDonnell Douglas MD-11
1 PH-BQA PH-BQA Boeing 777-206/ER
2 PH-KCE PH-KCE McDonnell Douglas MD-11
3 PH-BFE PH-BFE Boeing 747-406M
4 PH-KCD PH-KCD McDonnell Douglas MD-11
5 PH-KCF - McDonnell Douglas MD-11
6 PH-BFA PH-KCF/PH-BFA Boeing 747-406
7 PH-BFS PH-BFS Boeing 747-406M
8 PH-BQG PH-BQG Boeing 777-206/ER
9 PH-KCD PH-KCD McDonnell Douglas MD-11
10 PH-KCB PH-KCB McDonnell Douglas MD-11
11 PH-KCA PH-KCA McDonnell Douglas MD-11
12 - -
13 PH-BFN PH-BFN Boeing 747-406
14 PH-KCG PH-KCG McDonnell Douglas MD-11


STATS: 14/31 Boeing 747-406/Boeing 747-406M
5/31 Boeing 777-206/ER
10/31 McDonnell Douglas MD-11
2/31 CANCELLED


For this period, the reliability of the MD11 (around 35%) is very poor. This is very sad because the MD11 is such a great aircraft. I hope KLM will fix up the problems.

Cheers,

Mark


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Quoting MarkChief (Reply 15):
This is very sad because the MD11 is such a great aircraft

It's bad, very bad and so it the M11.
It never sold well and it's a pain for KL to operate. It may look nice, but so does a 346...
The M11 is causing problems since a long time, it's not temporal nor easily solved. Rumours are KL is about to ditch the M11 earlier than planned; I wonder why they didn't do that earlier because as you prove with your stats the term "The Reliable Airline" is nothing but an empty marketing slogan if the dispatch reliability of (a part of) the fleet lies at 35%...


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

If YUL is KLM's lowest yielding North American market, then it is logical that YUL will bear the brunt of equipment changes and delays to ensure that other North American markets are served better and more consistently (thus protecting their more valuable yields).

Ideally, no market should suffer undue equipment changes and poor OTP, but if a general fleet performance shortfall is happening at KLM, better to sacrifice the lower yielding markets.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2321 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 16):
It's bad, very bad and so it the M11.

If the plane is crap KLM would have replaced it earlier in the decade. The KLM MD-11's were among the highest PIP packaged airframes, along with the Swissair Advanced Heavy jets. I don't remember hearing MD-11 problems with KLM in the '90s or earlier in the decade for that matter.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 17):
If YUL is KLM's lowest yielding North American market, then it is logical that YUL will bear the brunt of equipment changes and delays to ensure that other North American markets are served better and more consistently

If one route is experiencing all the problems while others are running fairly smoothly then the MX problems can not be among the entire 10 strong fleet. Does anyone know which reg. # airframes are problematic?



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineSB From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

Well, on the bright side we do see variety of aircraft with the KLM flights - always a nice surprise at work.

The delays are unfortunate though.

S.



"Confirm leave the hold and maintain 320kts?!"
User currently offlineMarkChief From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Hi,

Anybody here knows the load factor on this route?

Thanks,

Mark


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3719 times:

Quoting MarkChief (Reply 20):
Anybody here knows the load factor on this route?

Not officially but all KL Canada flights always seem to be pretty full, even overflowing.



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3711 times:

Quoting MarkChief (Reply 20):
Anybody here knows the load factor on this route?

All KL load-factors are accessible thru www.amadeus.net, just go to Flight Status and then enter the route, in this case AMS-YUL and the desired date and you will get the load-factor. Today it left with 266 pax.
I emailed KLM about the fact they are leaking their load factors on the web, but they decided to give me a standard reply so I'm happy sharing this "leak" with you.

This also works for KLM Cityhopper flights.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

Quoting MarkChief (Reply 15):
Look at this... I compiled all the flights for the AMS-YUL-AMS (KL671/672) for a period of 31 days from March 15th to April 14th. The aircraft type for this flight is normally a MD11...

Although your sample is not very representative because the past month or so things have definitely taken a turn for the worse, the MD11 is indeed suffering from great shortfalls in dispatch reliability. The reason that the statistics for the AMS YUL route look so bad is that whenever MD11 problems occur, it is mostly the YUL route which is sacrificed for delays/cancellations/aircraft substitutions.

Quoting MarkChief (Reply 15):
For this period, the reliability of the MD11 (around 35%) is very poor. This is very sad because the MD11 is such a great aircraft. I hope KLM will fix up the problems.

Your number is somewhat misleading in that it only considers one particular route. KLM deploys the MD11 on many other routes, and you should take that into account in your reliability calculations. Again, the fact is that most MD11 problems are shifted to the KL671/672 AMS YUL AMS flights because that is where the airline has sufficient flexibility to overcome these problems.

As it goes, the overall dispatch reliability of the 10-strong KLM MD11 fleet is in the region of 90%. That may look like high, but it is actually pretty abyssmal. Dispatch reliability rates with big airlines are commonly in the 98-99.9% range.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 17):
If YUL is KLM's lowest yielding North American market, then it is logical that YUL will bear the brunt of equipment changes and delays to ensure that other North American markets are served better and more consistently (thus protecting their more valuable yields).

Ideally, no market should suffer undue equipment changes and poor OTP, but if a general fleet performance shortfall is happening at KLM, better to sacrifice the lower yielding markets.

While I agree completely with what you are saying, the KLM strategy seems to be somewhat different. The entire MD11-fleet is deployed to the airline's lowest yielding destinations, and the new cabin layout, with just 24 premium seats is indicative of that shift in mission. As such, KLM deploys the MD11 to such destinations as YUL, YVR, CUR, SXM, AUA, BON, UIO, GYE, ACC, JRO, DAR, DEL and HYD.

The reason that YUL is mostly suffering from operational instability of the MD11 fleet is because of the particular fact that KL671 AMS YUL is one of the last MD11 flights to leave AMS, with the notable exception of the KL753 BON GYE UIO flight, which leaves much later, around midnight. As such, any MD11 problems are always shifted to this last daylight departure, which happens to be AMS YUL. That is where the delays/cancellations/aircraft changes happen. An added advantage of using YUL for these swaps [and not YVR, which leaves just about around the same time] is the vicinity of New York, where there are always B747 and B772 crews available which can be deadheaded to YUL in case of operational issues.


User currently offlineMatt From Canada, joined May 1999, 692 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 23):
An added advantage of using YUL for these swaps [and not YVR, which leaves just about around the same time] is the vicinity of New York, where there are always B747 and B772 crews available which can be deadheaded to YUL in case of operational issues.

Thanks for the detailed response. Regarding the availability of 744 and 777 (and MD11) crews in NYC, would deadheading to YUL not affect the NYC operations? I would imagine that the crews are in NYC for 24 hours and thus required to fly the trip back to AMS...



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
25 JRadier : I recon the crew that came of the AMS-YUL flight deadheads to NYC (before or after rest) and picks up the JFK-AMS flight
26 Matt : The thing is that pilots are usually rated for one specific type of aircraft. If the 777 crew, for example, deadheads to YUL from NYC to operate a su
27 YULWinterSkies : Is it likely that KL would drop YUL eventually and leave it to AF? It could make sense to me as : - AF will add even more flights soon - YUL is low yi
28 SB : KLM has been in Montreal for longer than I can remember. As a wee little one we always flew KLM business to Europe from YMX. Is that a reason to stay?
29 FLYYUL : The presence of the MD11 suggests good loads and satisfactory revenue performance. The MD11 very much is an expensive airplane to fly. KL would be in
30 Yyz717 : Actually, generally the opposite is true. Airlines allocate the newest and most efficient aircraft onto the highest yielding routes to ensure good OT
31 PHKLM : When capital costs are considered, the M11 actually is a very cheap airplane to operate for KL. The lease rates on the M11 are very low; for this ver
32 MarkChief : I don't think KLM wants to drop service at YUL because they offer very good connections for other destinations at their main hub, Schiphol airport. I
33 GOT : As the 777 comes in from AMS a crew can be flown NYC-YUL to take the ship back. The crew from the inbound flight will then dead-head to NYC to, after
34 FLYYUL : Counter productive for profit optimization. "When capital costs are considered, the M11 actually is a very cheap airplane to operate for KL" -Thats a
35 Yyz717 : Nonsense. Profit maximization is reached by applying the most intense capital solution (i.e. newest aircraft) at the highest yielding route, to ensur
36 FLYYUL : Ok, so then allocation is not based on profit maximization?
37 Post contains links PHKLM : Sorry but why is a small number of J seats counter productive for profit optimization? Last time I checked it was still very unprofitable to fly empt
38 JRadier : Exactly, matching aircraft to routes only on the basis of operating costs is not efficient, even tho you might have the lowest operating costs, you c
39 Matt : Yes and no. Let me explain. Let's just say that the AMS-YUL flight on Monday was operated by the MD11, as per the schedule. If the Tuesday flight tha
40 FLYYUL : Because the MD11 is an expensive VARIABLE unit cost airplane. This even more so than the A330-200. Then we have the famous equation rasm > casm = pro
41 GOT : Good point, but when on Wednesday, the flight is again operated on a M11 you will need a crew to fly it back to AMS. The 777 crew from the day before
42 Yyz717 : True, but since capital is scarce, and since new capital (i.e. new aircraft) is generally the most reliable, you want to use them in your highest yie
43 PHKLM : Yes, this is all very well, but I still don't see your point. The A330-200 has lower variable costs, therefore it needs less pax onboard before the f
44 Matt : Fair enough, but it doesn't solve the problem. If, like you said, the Monday MD11 crew (that flew AMS-YUL) stays in YUL, it will indeed be there to f
45 FLYYUL : You simply can not substiante this. There is little evidence that YUL is a low-yield route. Yield determine the amount of revenue per pax per mile fl
46 Viscount724 : While YUL may not be the lowest of low in terms of yields, it is definitely a lower yield market than Toronto, New York or many other cities with muc
47 FLYYUL : Air France offers F in YUL, and not in YYZ. British offers F only on BA92/93 out of YYZ.... LH both offer F (seasonally to both)... There is no doubt
48 Viscount724 : Whenever I've used KL YUL-AMS it always seems like a high proportion of passengers are connecting to CAI, BEY and other points in the Middle East and
49 Post contains images FLYYUL : Firstly yields to the Middle East are generally very generous, especially to Lebanon. Remember that Air Canada deemed this to be a destination worth
50 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : I don't care what you call yourself. I still outrank you.
51 MarkChief : ?
52 Yyz717 : Mark, numerous people have demonstrated on this thread how and why newer aircraft are allocated to the higher yield and more prestigious routes. You
53 HB-IWC : While I am not getting into the argument of whether YUL is a higher or lower yielding destination, I have been previously stating KLM's policy with r
54 FLYYUL : Until you see some kind of profitability numbers on any international route departing Canada, then you can not sit here and pretend like im totally s
55 Post contains links 76er : KLM just announced a reduction in the MD11's flight schedule for this summer to AUA, BON and HDD. The official reason: crew shortage. Here's the link
56 JRadier : ok, let's close it at "YUL is a lower yielding market for KLM (wdoesn't matter if it is YUL or KL's strategy) which is indicated by the MD-11 operati
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Equipment Is KLM Operating AMS-YUL? posted Tue Mar 15 2005 20:26:12 by DL021
What Would Be The Next New Airline From AMS? posted Tue Apr 24 2007 11:03:33 by KL911
Why So Few Middle Eastern Carriers Serving AMS posted Thu Apr 19 2007 23:38:16 by DALCE
AMS: Dogs&security Check At Arrival Gate! posted Tue Apr 17 2007 08:41:44 by RootsAir
AC 777 At YUL Today posted Thu Apr 12 2007 00:16:19 by Yulguy
NW BDL-AMS Meals / No Flight Kitchen In BDL? posted Mon Apr 9 2007 15:04:25 by NWBOS
Anyone At AMS Tomorrow? 9/4? posted Sun Apr 8 2007 19:49:18 by Pilotaydin
KLM AMS-LIM Nonstop Inaugural March 25 posted Thu Apr 5 2007 04:21:08 by Viscount724
KLM Running A 737 From AMS-IAH-AMS? posted Wed Apr 4 2007 21:29:45 by Gregarious119
Why Did KL 871 Return To AMS After Take Off? posted Wed Apr 4 2007 09:11:22 by Deaphen