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Disappeared Chinese A320 - Dismantled, Reverse Eng  
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5293 posts, RR: 61
Posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29593 times:

There is an article in last week’s Air & Cosmos about an A320 delivered to China that seems to have ‘disappeared’. No record of it being transferred to a Chinese carrier and no maintenance records have been returned to Airbus. = assumption that it was dismantled - examined so that pieces can be reverse engineered for China’s own civil aircraft projects.

Has this been reported anywhere else? Anyone know what frame is involved?


Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
122 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29527 times:

Haha, thats very funny. Not it's not!!!!

I never understood why Airbus did this China deal. In ten years we wont fly Airbus, we will fly Xian-Ching and so on which looks the same like an Airbus.

Sorry, but I don't like this exaggerated copying strategy of China.

[Edited 2007-04-22 22:16:17]


Tom from Cologne
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29378 times:

Isnt there various ways of tracking it, like the transponder? This is very odd.

On a lighter note, at least Airbus can be flattered that they chose to reverse engineer an A320 and not a 737.  Wink


User currently offlineAeroweanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29305 times:
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There is mention of this airframe in the latest Aviation Week & Space Technology. The story supposedly comes from the French arm of Airbus.

User currently offlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2353 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29207 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
Isnt there various ways of tracking it, like the transponder? This is very odd.

Chinese people might be stupid in copyright and patent issues, however they will be so intelligent to cut off all electricity and radioing devices before dismantling the ship

Mario
LH526



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29174 times:

which a/c production number is involved?


flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30654 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29130 times:
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Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
On a lighter note, at least Airbus can be flattered that they chose to reverse engineer an A320 and not a 737.  wink 

As they will be building A320, it makes sense to see what one looks like "under the skin" so they can be more efficient in assembling.  Wink


User currently offlineCJAContinental From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29061 times:

Honestly, I'm sure I've said this before on a similar topic about china's ambition to conceive of a regional jet; if they did build it, it would, and should expect no sales other than inside its own market. International customers would not go for it unless it was heavily discounted or something along those lines.

The main reason for this is as follows. Embraer 170-190, Bombardier Canadair C-series, Airbus A318 A119, The new Sukhoi RJ100 or whatever it is, and updates on the 737 series coming up next decade.

I'm not sure about the A320 gone missing as part of a reverse engineering ploy, China, I would have thought, would be too consciencious of doing something like that; they like to present themselves as a modern up to date, sophisticate country, hence why the population census and mortality rates and economic values and other figures are tweaked exagerated, so they'll look like a model of your typical MEDC on paper.

I can't say I take this one seriously, let alone a chinese effort at a regional jet; there's just too much competition.



Work Hard/Fly Right.
User currently offlineCJAContinental From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29017 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
As they will be building A320, it makes sense to see what one looks like "under the skin" so they can be more efficient in assembling.

 checkmark 



Work Hard/Fly Right.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9511 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29017 times:

I read an article about Airbus possibly opening a production line in China for the A320 similar to how McDonnell Douglas did about 10-15 years ago. Chinese companies have the capabilities of manufacturing commercial jetliners, but there isn't the experience to develop new designs. It could come with time. Embraer did what was thought of as impossible when they produced a wildly successful jet in a developing country. China could do it, but it would take some work. Of course even if they do build their own jetliners, they will incorporate western technology since there are so many subsystems where specialized companies in the United States or Europe exclusively manufacture the products.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28970 times:

Probably more like covering up a hull loss then reverse engineering. Why would they need to reverse engineer anything?, just buy 100 frames and Airbus will provide the engineering, specifications and production planning.

Actually, might have been used in some type of military application..

Cheers


User currently offlineAa54heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28905 times:

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 7):
I'm not sure about the A320 gone missing as part of a reverse engineering ploy, China, I would have thought, would be too consciencious of doing something like that

I don't have any solid facts, but China's first entry into the commercial aviation market is the ARJ21, and it looks remarkably similar to an airplane once manufactured here in the US (read: MD), and at one-point derivatives of this aircraft (read: MD-80) were to be, and/or were, produced in Mainland China...makes you wonder....food for thought, it would be interesting to find further facts on both the A320 supposedly reverse-engineered (which wouldn't surprise me) and this ARJ21....

See following links for pictures....

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/arj21/arj211.html

http://english.people.com.cn/200703/31/eng20070331_362757.html



Roger that, turning to our "other" left
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28856 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
On a lighter note, at least Airbus can be flattered that they chose to reverse engineer an A320 and not a 737.

As they will be building A320, it makes sense to see what one looks like "under the skin" so they can be more efficient in assembling.

All they have to do is ask, its not like airbus wont give them a copy of the assembly instructions!

What next, reverse engineering an A380?  Smile


User currently offlineCJAContinental From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28801 times:

Quoting Aa54heavy (Reply 11):

Yeah, I agree that thats a good source to back up your point, I think it does remsemble an MD-80 a lot, especially the edges of the flight deck windows. Though again, if china does come up with something along the lines of an A320, or an E-190, I don't think it'll resemble it that much.



Work Hard/Fly Right.
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28789 times:

If EADS is concerned over this, then we'll know when they change their mind of the A320 production facility. If they proceed, then they likely don't consider this a threat.


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineLimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28715 times:

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 7):
China, I would have thought, would be too consciencious of doing something like that; they like to present themselves as a modern up to date, sophisticate country

Huh? China has zero respect for intellectual property rights. They rip off Western technology without shame. In the past, it's "only" been things like software and entertainment content (music, DVDs, etc.), but they're getting more ambitious and starting to copy sophisticated technology like Internet routers and switches. Huawei has been cloning Cisco routers and switches for years now, and only stopped selling them in the U.S. because Cisco sued them and managed to slap an injunction on them.

As anecdotal evidence, check out this link: in the first 2 weeks of selling Windows Vista in China, Microsoft managed to sell only 244 copies, in a country with over 1 billion people. Vista is bad, but it's not that bad...

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/...ne_windows_vista_sold_in_china.php


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21477 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28646 times:

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 7):
I'm not sure about the A320 gone missing as part of a reverse engineering ploy, China, I would have thought, would be too consciencious of doing something like that

ROFL.

They sell copycat electronics, made in the same factories, under their own name without permission.

They sell copycat versions of Korean cars, without permission.

They actively pirate Movies while restricting imports legal products to "preserve Chinese culture."

They poison food stuffs exported so it reads to have more protein in it, without retribution, refusing to even allow visas to inspectors and claiming that the products were not intended to be used as food... (it happened to Korea before it happened to the USA, btw).

What makes you think they won't pull blatant, obvious scams with planes?

Not to say it's true or isn't true, just the "benefit of the doubt" is something that China doesn't deserve when it comes to manufacturing/production.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUltrapig From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28455 times:

The Soviet Union interned a B-29 during WWII and did the same thing-

More specifically-To what extent to Boeing or Airbus engineeers examine competitive models to see how certain hydralics, wings, wing boxes are constructed so they can perhaps not reverse engineer but improve their product.


Any design engineeers out there?


User currently offlineAA54Heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28455 times:

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 15):
Huh? China has zero respect for intellectual property rights.

True dat.....getting way beyond the stuff like piracy of dvds, etc., companies within China have gotten now into trouble for copying autombolies (from Honda, GM, etc.) The pic below shows the similarity between the QQ, "created" by a Chinese company, and its near mirror image, the GM spark (which was created first)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/bimmerbimmer99/CarImage.jpg

There is no doubt that they have already, and will continue, to have the ability to copy even bigger things...airplanes, which is why the reference to automobiles is relevant to this discussion. I work for a major aerospace company that outsources to China and I keep asking around to find out what their policies are towards "not giving them enough information so that they can create it themselves"....but I guess its part of the whole "global village" thing....

I reference the article that I got that picture from....a long synopsis on the IP issues created by Chinese policys. It obviously references cars (its a 2006 article), but it relates to aviation because there could easily be an article about them copying airplanes in a few years...

http://autoweb.net/web2006/pdf/ip%20theft.pdf



Roger that, turning to our "other" left
User currently offlineDa man From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 887 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28217 times:

There is precedent to this sort of thing by China.
The exact same thing happened to the 707...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Taecoxu




War Eagle!
User currently offlineAA54Heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28217 times:

Quoting Da man (Reply 19):
There is precedent to this sort of thing by China.
The exact same thing happened to the 707...

WOW! Does anybody know anything further about their progra to copy the 707s and why the whole thing never really "took off"?



Roger that, turning to our "other" left
User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 28076 times:

i've also heard that at least a couple B747's have disappeared the same way, no record, nothing just disappeared in China.

User currently offlineTheCheese From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 27947 times:
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Its entirely possible that the aircraft disappeared to become parts for duplication as counterfeit spares, as well. This is a very lucrative market, and it's much easier to copy a part when it's not attached to anything else.

User currently offlineMli717fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 27947 times:

While I'm not sure if this is a legal copy, but there is always the Chinese built Landwind SUV, it's based off of the 1990's Isuzu Rodeo... except, I guess they cheapened the structure. Anywho, don't get into an accident in one of these bad boys.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiangling_Motors_Landwind


Crash tests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Ts94rjr4M


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 27902 times:

Quoting AA54Heavy (Reply 18):
True dat.....getting way beyond the stuff like piracy of dvds, etc., companies within China have gotten now into trouble for copying autombolies (from Honda, GM, etc.) The pic below shows the similarity between the QQ, "created" by a Chinese company, and its near mirror image, the GM spark (which was created first)

Here's a better example:




http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
25 EI321 : When Concorde & TU144 were being designed, Espionage was everywhere. It was found that spies had actually been trespassing on the runways after the p
26 N844AA : Didn't they also plant quite a bit in the way of erroneous/misleading engineering documents? I have a vague recollection of a scheme involving a holl
27 Post contains links Breiz : Quoting Teahan (Thread starter): There is an article in last week's Air & Cosmos about an A320 delivered to China that seems to have 'disappeared'. No
28 Teahan : Ha! But no. Either dated the 7th or the 14th of April (the issue with the Boeing 787/A350 feature) in the confidential news section. Edited to add: A
29 Trintocan : An interesting discussion. The Shanghai Y-10 was indeed reversed from the 707 back in the late 1970s and first flew in 1980. Only 2 were built and did
30 Teahan : Thanks to Runway23 for finding the link:
31 CJAContinental : I have to say, I didn't know about the 707 copy, or all the others. Well, you've changed my mind, I guess China is very much capable of design stealin
32 Post contains images J.mo : And then we will be able to buy them at Wal-Mart. JM
33 Rbgso : If this is true, and the Chinese bring this copy to the world market, I wonder if the European and US aviation authorities would certify it.
34 Post contains images Boeing4ever : It's so nice to know that all the Chinese students here at Purdue are learning to be good little reverse-engineering copycats... Ugh. We can only hope
35 Ikramerica : They are looking to use their own parts, and the idea that they may be looking to build cheep spares without having to engineer them is a strong one.
36 NA : Not true. Heard where? I think there is an old ex-BA 747 which is in China and used by a university to teach students. But thats an old machine, noth
37 AA54Heavy : Well, in a show of respect towards many of these said Chinese students (as both myself and my father have worked with and/or taught with many of them
38 Post contains images Boeing4ever : No I'll agree with that. There's going to be a shortfall of Engineers in this country in the coming decades. And the comment wasn't just a slam at Ch
39 Ikramerica : Why? First, where is the evidence of this? All I see from Chinese brands that aren't copies of non-chinese products is LOWER quality product, not inn
40 JAAlbert : . . . and that safety and support services were demonstrated over thousands of hours. Really, what non-chinese airline is going to trust its passenge
41 Post contains images Poitin : I guess we will see about that with the ARJ-21 AKA DC-9
42 Rbgso : I wonder if they are copying the engines as well or purchasing them.
43 Trex8 : The Chinese have had a licence from RR for the Spey since what the late 70s and they still haven't been able to manufacture any for their JH7 fighter
44 Ratherbflyin : In the April 16th issue of AWST, they also (briefly) mention the missing A320 aircraft. No dates or other information is supplied, just that it "vanis
45 B777ER : Looks like a DC9 and part Fokker. What a joke the country of China is..... Hence the reason we (the US of A) is still builidng the F/A-22 and the JSF
46 Lufthansa : Okay, this has just got me very concerned about something. Think of all of the heavy maintenance being outsourced to China. Yes we know some very good
47 Gigneil : People like you are exactly why they're going to pass us up. Never underestimate the 1.7 billion pound gorilla. NS
48 Post contains images JRDC930 : No offense intedded to the industrious chinese people, but china(government of)has a habit of copying equipment it needs to save costs from having to
49 Post contains images AutoThrust : Indeed, thats really something to worry, besides the Chinese even copy our tools and high-tech machines almost 1:1. IMO the WTO should sue China for
50 Francoflier : The fact that they're actually copying current designs is not very threatening in my opinion. It has been proven that reverse engineering never really
51 EA772LR : "Anybody wish to comment? This could be very serious and I'd like to know what you all think." Very good point. I didn't really think about your point
52 JRDC930 : One could only hope, but do you really think China cares what the WTO says given their increasing economic belligerance? Francoflier does bring up a
53 Post contains links and images Ewmahle : It's looks awfully similar to the Tu-334 View Large View MediumPhoto © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team
54 Post contains images Flybyguy : This rampant copying has much to do with the way many universities in Asia are run. Many are super hard to get into, but once you're in you do nothin
55 Post contains links and images L-188 : I would argue that point. While I agree with that in general, it isn't always the case. If I may use this example to illustrate. View Large View Medi
56 Flighty : Certainly China would do this. As always, China is thinking 30-50 years ahead. By 2050, China hopes to have the top technology and military companies
57 Post contains links and images Ecureuil : And to prove that the Chinese do actually reverse engineer aircraft, check out the 3 following photos: View Large View MediumPhoto © Xu Zheng Vie
58 Aminobwana : This is only a reinforcement of the comment made in several postings and by myself that assembling the A320 in China, only to be able to book a pyhrri
59 Iwok : Well one thing is for sure; the Chinese government does not give a rats ass about the UN, WTO, PCT etc. etc. have to say. We westerners are absolutel
60 JAM747 : I think some time ago there was concern that a computer chip might be copied from some 737s sold to an airline in China. This computer chip or part wa
61 Post contains images Francoflier : Point taken! In my defense, the Camel was reverse German-engineered... There's a subtle difference there.
62 Post contains images LimaNiner : Innovation requires risk. Risk means that it's OK to fail. That's just not the case in many Asian cultures -- failure is considered shameful. Contras
63 APChigoSea : I do not know if the disappearing A320 is for copying as many have stated it is an older design. I do believe however that any of their future aircraf
64 Post contains images Warszawa : ARJ-21 ehh? The 'Lookalikes': Fokker F-100 Windows Boeing 717 Wings Beech 1900D Winglets CRJ-700/900 Engines Boeing 717 Tail DC-9/717 Fuselage and the
65 Scbriml : China's A320 orders of 2005 and 2006 are firm orders, so what's pyrrhic about it? Of course, if you have some evidence that no firm contract has ever
66 Post contains images JRDC930 : You can thank a certain political party that has a majority in congress right now, when this happens. China cares nothing about copyrights
67 Curmudgeon : Really? They managed to screw up America's future already, and they've only been sworn in for a couple of months? That's fast action for government,
68 Post contains images Lostmoon744 : Maybe they ate it... I am sure a few of them think the very same sentiment of the west, particularly, the United States. Ha ha. What a sensationalist
69 VivaGunners : This is exactly my thought as well, more than one billion people live in China, it's impossible they cannot come out with their own ideas... China is
70 Lumberton : The ARJ21 will be powered by a variant of the CF-34. I have been unable to determine if the engine will be produced in the U.S. or "assembled" in Chi
71 Legoguy : How exactly does an A320 just disappear? What airline was the aircraft destined for and what A320 production number is it?
72 Lumberton : Not to be facetious, but a good start would be towing it in the hangar and shutting the door. After all, it's their plane and their country. This is
73 Ptrjong : While I'm not disputing that the Chinese are copying things illegally, the Ecurueil is not one of them I believe. This is simply licensed production.
74 Col : Nobody has come up with a production number, registration or carrier. I don't believe Airbus delivers unpainted 320's to China! Sounds a bit strange t
75 Cloudyapple : I'm sure the chinese can easily reverse engineer or "study" the structure of an airframe but I'm not sure if it is capable of or even possible to reve
76 Legoguy : Yes I know how an aircraft can disppear, I mean surely the aircraft was destined for an airline or something? If an aircraft can disappear, it should
77 LTBEWR : Counterfit parts manufacure has become a serious problem for the aircraft as well as many other industries. It is just a matter of time, if it hasn't
78 EI321 : Look into the ARJ21. It looks like a DC9 because it is built on the same rigs that were used for the chinese MD90 line, so the Fuselage, Tail Setup a
79 StarGoldLHR : The Shanghai Y1 was build in the late 70's early 80's when the 747 program was in full swing, the 757 about to fly and the 767 in the works. Quite si
80 Norcal773 : Didn't the US sue China a few weeks ago regarding copyright laws on music and movies?
81 Post contains links AOMlover : And look at this ! Rover --> Roewe ! http://www.motorauthority.com/news/s...2%80%99s-roewe-750e-caught-testing
82 LVHGEL : [ I will disagree with this comment, Brazil has a decades of tradition in aircraft design and development, they do have the talent and ingenuity to pr
83 Post contains images DeltaDC9 : Are you sure? In China, the Chinese determine who competes with who. Because they are just like everyone else. They need the technology more than the
84 NA : I think they bought the Rover 75 tools actually. But the idea of putting the Audi grille on it, well...
85 Poitin : Quite right EI321 -- With GE engines and Rockwell Collins avionics. So will the FAA refuse to certify it? I really doubt it. They are already talking
86 PVG : they bought the technology from the now bankrupt MG/Rover group. FORD took the Rover name, Shanghai auto took the designs and equipment to produce th
87 LHStarAlliance : China has got a very bad prestige with all copying and bad quality products an Airline like LH KL BA , etc would never buy an Chinese Airliner not ye
88 Post contains images Bennett123 : NA Do you know which Uni has the B747, (is it for the enginerring or re engineering dept?).
89 Post contains links and images Poitin : The biggest rip off was by the Russians right after WW II when they put the B-29 into production as the TU-4. Many ended up in China and two at the C
90 Flighty : Yeah this is a fair point. Thru history, reverse engineering has been done by everybody. I think this thread is just a chance for Americans and Euros
91 B777ER : I dont underestimate them. You took what I said completley out of context. Now shut up.
92 TheSorcerer : Maybe explaining what you meant would be a better idea as oppose to being an asshole. Dominic
93 JRDC930 : Im entitled to my legitimate opinion as are you... i see cheap shot on Anet about the other party all the timem get over it... and your facts about t
94 Post contains images Marquis : Some other examples for the creativity and the inventive talent of the Chinese industry: ShuangHuan SCEO: BMW X5: BYD: Mercedes Benz C-Class: Chinese
95 Post contains images Lumberton : Did you meant to include "creativity" and "inventive talent" in quotes?
96 Marquis : Well, at first I really thought about putting them in inverted commas but then again there is thing called "common sense"...
97 CJAContinental : This is easy the most concerning factor in my opinion, well done for posting. Counterfitting parts is happening in so many other industries, and in t
98 MrComet : So what is everyone worrying about. They built a 707. Did it sell? No. Reverse engineering isn't designing a plane. I doubt the get the same weight an
99 LHStarAlliance : Look at the logo , it´s a cheap copy of the BMW logo ... Awful , really how poor (of mind) you´ve to be to copy like this ... Europe and the US sho
100 Aminobwana : Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 59): This is only a reinforcement of the comment made in several postings and by myself that assembling the A320 in China, o
101 EI321 : " target=_blank>http://www.motorauthority.com/news/s...sting Are they going to make them? Im one of the unlucky ones who happen to own an MG and I am
102 Cyclonic : Ho-hum. Saw this one coming from a long way off. I have zero respect for the Chinese Govt and manufacturing there in general.
103 EI321 : I bet your house is still full of stuff with made in china stickers on them!
104 Scbriml : Indeed not. Personally, I think you're attaching far too much weight to a web picture caption that is not even dated. But, if you want to believe the
105 MEA-707 : Maybe some volunteer here with a lot of time should take a A-320 production list, for instance from airlinerlist.com or planespotters.net , and check
106 Iwok : Never say never. I LH were given the option to buy a plane a 33% of the cost of an Airbus model, you can bet they'd take a close look. There is a jok
107 Aminobwana : Scbriml From United Kingdom (England), joined Jul 2003, 4639 posts, RR: 8 Reply 104, posted Mon Apr 23 2007 12:38:32 your local time (6 minutes 14 sec
108 LHStarAlliance : Imagine how much they´ld pay for the Superjet , they´ld get it almost for free , but they don´t do it , same for china .
109 Post contains links and images Glideslope : Don't worry too much (although your right on.) Eventually Beijing will be overtaken by the desert. http://www.gluckman.com/ChinaDesert.html
110 Tayaramecanici : In the early 90s had heard a similar story about the JT-8D during a course on Bogus Parts, apparently 3xJT-8Ds landed up at Hartfield for overhaul. Af
111 VivaGunners : I understand your point, but while this could be true for technology, it doesn't apply to design and every other aspect of a commercial product: ther
112 Post contains images Boeing4ever : What your revering to is more evolutionary developments of existing technology...not a nut for bolt copycat scheme. It's one thing to use key concept
113 Aminobwana : VivaGunners From Italy, joined Oct 2000, 292 posts, RR: 0 Reply 111, posted Mon Apr 23 2007 14:26:23 your local time (1 minute 57 secs ago) and read 2
114 TommyBP251b : Hi Guys! I guess you can make this with cars. But when you will build cheap airliners with low quality, which will fall from the sky once a month, ev
115 Post contains images HKGKaiTak : Couldn't agree more - but hey an urban legend story has brought out every Westerner paranoia and prejudices against China and the Chinese culture, so
116 Pygmalion : The hard part is designing an aircraft not building it. Without all the data that drove the trade studies and efficiencies... You ain't got nuthin'. A
117 Post contains links and images Scbriml : I believe Airbus's website is hosted and managed by a 3rd party (like many large companies). I have a real-life example of how this works - my own co
118 EI321 : I wonder when this A320 will pop up again, fully intact.
119 Post contains images Poitin : As soon as they get all the rivets back into it Actually, does anyone know the identity of the "missing" aircraft? My guess is it is really just flyi
120 Falstaff : It may not even be that sinister. They very well could be tearing it down and testing it to compare to their own stuff. When I worked at Ford we had v
121 Post contains links Baroque : Talking of reliability of a reverse engineered plane, http://www.smh.com.au/news/WORLD/Mol...d-20/2007/04/18/1176696892858.html Molten metal in China
122 Post contains images MD90fan : Just look at those pricks in Darfur......
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