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Aviation Partners Launches B767 Winglets  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

Quote:
Aviation Partners Boeing has officially launched the 767-300ER Blended Winglet program with FAA certification anticipated in the fourth quarter of 2008. Three airlines on three different continents have already placed firm orders for 68 767-300ER Blended Winglet systems. The benefits of Blended Winglets for 767-300ER operators -- both passenger and freighter versions -- include average annual fuel savings per aircraft of 350,000 gallons (1,330,000 liters), payload improvements of up to 12,000 pounds (5,447 kilograms) and a range boost of up to 360 nautical miles (667 km).

http://www10.mcadcafe.com/nbc/articl...?section=CorpNews&articleid=381526

Well, that´s really an improvement to talk about. Any guesses who these three airlines are?


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

I'm going out on a limb by guessing UPS is one.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
The benefits of Blended Winglets for 767-300ER operators -- both passenger and freighter versions --

To bad there are no illustraions yet.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Any guesses who these three airlines are?

I'll guess two of them:

American Airlines

Delta Air Lines



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
'll guess two of them:

Mark:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Three airlines on three different continents

But yes, one of them should be AA.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3162 times:
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One of them has to be AA per AA To Add Winglets To All 757 & 767. (by FXramper Apr 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
To bad there are no illustraions yet.

No kidding. With so many engineering firms becoming graphics happy, I'm surprised we haven't been seeing AVPB renderings for months/years now...


User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

There's a thread concerning AA's possible involvement in the winglet program for its 767s. This states there are 68 orders so far. American has 58 763s and 15 762s. Maybe a test program will be done on the 767s, like the 752s and 738s before a decision was made to retrofit all of them.

User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 986 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

So what happens to the 764s, if wing tips outperform the racked version? (Or visa versa?)


"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineBHD From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
The benefits of Blended Winglets for 767-300ER operators...include average annual fuel savings per aircraft of 350,000 gallons (1,330,000 liters), payload improvements of up to 12,000 pounds (5,447 kilograms) and a range boost of up to 360 nautical miles (667 km).

With the increased focused on climate change and the adverse affect on the climate from increased flying demand, I wonder if there would be a case for an airline to seek government funding to help them tackle climate change by adapting winglets.

On another note,

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
certification anticipated in the fourth quarter of 2008

Does this mean the 767 with winglets will only be able to travel in USA, with other countries aviation regulatiry bodies needing approval also, such as CAA within UK etc, or are they cleaered to operate worldwide?

Thanks
Woody


User currently offlinePhishphan70 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
So what happens to the 764s, if wing tips outperform the racked version? (Or visa versa?)

Boeing added the raked wing for a reason. it has been said that the T7 has the most areodynamic wing in the world, including the tip. i believe the 764 wings will remain unchanged


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2820 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Any guesses who these three airlines are?

Just a guess at the moment, but:

American Airlines (test program, with perhaps 1/3 of the fleet under contract)
First Choice Airways
LAN


Like I said, that is simply a guess (although as already noted, it looks like AA is definitely the North American customer)


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineChicagoFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

I am pretty sure that the 2nd airline is going to be LAN. I have heard that they and/or AA provided the testbed aircraft for Aviation Partners 767 winglet development.

The 3d airline... your guess is as good as mine. Let's look for OneWorld partner with a 767 fleet. Maybe Qantas with 29 of those?


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

On another note:


"APB has already certified its patented Blended Winglet technology for the Boeing Business Jet, 737-800, 737-700, 737-300, and 757-200. APB is also currently in the process of certifying Blended Winglets for the 737-900 and 737-500."


What ever happened to WestJet's plan to get BW on their 737-600 fleet?


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2725 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
So what happens to the 764s, if wing tips outperform the racked version? (Or visa versa?)

Not enough 764s to make the program worthwhile. Certification isn't cheep, so the cost to sell the product would be quite high...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

Does it really take 18 months to get this project certified? Late 2008 is a long time to wait. Heck, Boeing is getting the 787 certified faster than that.

Mike


User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2692 times:

Quoting BHD (Reply 8):
So what happens to the 764s, if wing tips outperform the racked version? (Or visa versa?)

The blended winglets do not outperform the raked winglets. The blended winglets are a compromise to get winglet benefits without drastically increasing the span of the aircraft.



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8683 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2673 times:

Hamlet69,

This one i'm going to trust you on as your info is superb and reliable. Add DL to the list as they'll be flying them transpac soon and they'll need that extra range.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3303 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2647 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 12):
What ever happened to WestJet's plan to get BW on their 737-600 fleet?

They abandoned it:

"After careful analysis, we elected not to install winglets on our 600-series aircraft as the cost and time associated with their installation on these aircraft was not warranted as they are primarily used for short-haul routes."

WestJet Releases 2006 Second Quarter Results



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2647 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 16):
Hamlet69,

This one i'm going to trust you on as your info is superb and reliable.

I appreciate the comment, but like I said, that was just a guess. I have no information one way or another on who the airline customers are.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

LAN is another confirmed customer for 767 blended winglets for both pax/F fleets:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070503/sfth017.html?.v=101


User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3303 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):


Quote:
Three airlines on three different continents have already placed firm orders for 68 767-300ER Blended Winglet systems.

Any guesses who these three airlines are?



Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 19):
LAN is another confirmed customer for 767 blended winglets

Well, that makes one from North America, and one from South America. Hamlet69 was first to call LAN, way to go Hamlet.  thumbsup 

And for Number Three, on any continent other than those posted above...



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 20):
Well, that makes one from North America, and one from South America. Hamlet69 was first to call LAN, way to go Hamlet.

Thanks! But here's the strange thing:

- APB's press release dated April 23 states that "Three airlines on three different continents have already placed firm orders for 68 767-300ER Blended Winglet systems."

- Two days later, on April 25, American Airlines and APB issue a joint announcement stating the airline's commitment to test and certify the first 767-300ER winglet, while: "Upon completion of the certification program, American plans to install winglets on its entire fleet of 58 B767-300ER aircraft. . .[snip]"

- Today, May 3, we get the press release that 2wingtips linked to above, stating that LAN has signed up for 8 767-300F kits, and 7 767-300ER kits.


So the question becomes: was LAN not one of the launch customers referred to in the April 23 release, OR has American not signed a firm contract for all 58 kits? Cause it cannot be both. . .

Regards,

Hamlet69   

[Edited 2007-05-03 08:27:10]


Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Austrian have ordered 6 blended winglet systems:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=a8RVCN1f8i4c


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1953 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 22):
Austrian have ordered 6 blended winglet systems

Damn! Was off by one.  Wink Oh well, guess you can't win them all. . .


Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1938 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Vorticity (Reply 15):
The blended winglets do not outperform the raked winglets. The blended winglets are a compromise to get winglet benefits without drastically increasing the span of the aircraft.

The first sentence is not quite true. A winglet is just a non-planar span extension. If you lay the winglet down flat and measure the equivalent span extension, it will slightly outperform a raked tip of the same span extension. The winglets also produce less of a bending moment increase and hence, less structural beef-up is required to add them.


25 ANother : Surprised they aren't taking the opportunity to mention the 'environmental' benefits as well. 6% improvement in fuel burn is quite a few tonnes of CO
26 Ikramerica : No, the media needs to actually pay attention. The airline industry has reduced pollution by huge amounts, especially compared to the auto industry.
27 ERAUgrad02 : I wonder if UPS/FEDEX/DHL will order these. It will allow them to carry more cargo further. What do you guys think?
28 ANother : Rather, one needs to hit the media over the head with a very large blunt object - but if you don't put it into your press release, which they didn't,
29 UN_B732 : I'm surprsied Delta hasn't ordered any - I'm sure it will come however, they push those 763s to the limit.. especially if they want to install AVOD IF
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