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Delta Looks To Fill Narrowbody Gap & New Widebody  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16989 times:

04/24/2007


Delta hasn't begun a campaign to fill the gap between its 76-seat regional jets and 142-seat MD-80s, but its business plan calls for 25 small-gauge narrowbodies by 2010.

The carrier is taking on 15 124-seat Boeing 737-700s, but Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst recently said those aircraft are targeted for very specific performance-limited airports, citing Vail, Mexico City and some islands in the Caribbean, where the carrier currently has to fly 757s and would like to have fewer seats or operate additional frequencies.

The 737-700s slated for the targeted markets aren't viewed as small-gauge, narrowbody aircraft. Whitehurst explained that for markets such as Atlanta-Knoxville or -Buffalo, Delta does have a gap between 76-seats and 142-seats, and "we will look at all the alternatives out there to close that gap."

Delta will also likely need to make a widebody replacement decision within 12 months. Whitehurst pointed out the airline probably won't need new aircraft until 2011 or 2012 -- the point Delta where will have exhausted its move of widebody aircraft from domestic to international service. At that time, Delta will need replacement of some of its older 767s, as well as additional growth.

Delta is stretching the 767s "as far as we can," Whitehurst said, explaining the carrier is putting a horizontal crew rest on a subfleet of the 767s, so they are capable of flying them longer than 12 hours. That capability allowed Delta to announce its Atlanta-Lagos and JFK-Tel Aviv routes. Whitehurst said the 767's mission is about 13 hours, and the 787 would supply an additional mission capability that Delta does not have today, and that's something the carrier would be interested in, assuming it selects the 787.


Full article (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...oks+To+Fill+Narrowbody+Gap+By+2010


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16968 times:

I would be almost 98% sure Delta will announce a deal for probably 25 or so E190/E95 aircraft as that "gap" aircraft..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16938 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
The carrier is taking on 15 124-seat Boeing 737-700s,

interesting. Last I heard, the order for 737-700s was only for ten aircraft.


User currently offlineCMB320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16899 times:

Looks like somebody should have ordered the 717.

User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16846 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Whitehurst said the 767's mission is about 13 hours, and the 787 would supply an additional mission capability that Delta does not have today, and that's something the carrier would be interested in, assuming it selects the 787.

I can already see the headlines; 'Delta has shunned the company that made the 764's specifically for them and chosen the now popular A350'.    sarcastic 

[Edited 2007-04-24 01:27:34]


If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16637 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 2):
Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
The carrier is taking on 15 124-seat Boeing 737-700s,

interesting. Last I heard, the order for 737-700s was only for ten aircraft.

That's what I thought too. I think they should order more 73G's to replace their MD-88's. Or replace the M88's when the 737RS comes out. Since 3x 73G's almost equals 2x 757's, a fleet of the 737's could give more frequency to many markets and free up 757's for use elsewhere.


User currently offlineTristarfreak From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 16397 times:

I thought delta flew the 738 also

but like said above I think they will go for the E190 narrowbody and the 788 widebody


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16104 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 5):
I think they should order more 73G's to replace their MD-88's.

The 738 is the right plane for that job...

NS


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16054 times:

I'm sure Delta has already selected it's upcoming fleet decisions...

[Edited 2007-04-24 04:11:33]


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16054 times:

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 3):
Looks like somebody should have ordered the 717.

They already have enough MDD aircraft remaining. Looks like someone wants to keep the only Boeing carryover from a decade ago that they saw the light to finally cancel.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDa man From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 887 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16054 times:

There are some rumblings that DL will acquire more examples of the MD-90 on the second-hand market in another thread here that must be considered credible considering the need for narrowbodies that DL has.


War Eagle!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15994 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
Quoting CMB320 (Reply 3):
Looks like somebody should have ordered the 717.

They already have enough MDD aircraft remaining. Looks like someone wants to keep the only Boeing carryover from a decade ago that they saw the light to finally cancel.

Yeah, because they really haven't needed a 100 seat airplane; it's ideal to have a 66 seat gap between the 76 seat CRJ and a 142 seat MD-88.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineAxio From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days ago) and read 15618 times:

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 3):
Looks like somebody should have ordered the 717.

Maybe they should just buy Airtran and get a nice stack of 737-700s and 717s to fulfil the aforementioned needs. I think Airtran have about the right number of 737-700s as well...

 Smile



Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2358 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15428 times:
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Quoting CMB320 (Reply 3):
Looks like somebody should have ordered the 717.

That's what I was thinking when I first read the article. Unfortunately for the 717, DL's interest in this market is five years too late.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15296 times:

What is "Horzontal Crew Rest?"

filler

filler



I come in peace
User currently offlineOmoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15036 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 14):
What is "Horzontal Crew Rest?"

Something like this...........


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeroen Stroes



User currently offlineAASuper80 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14832 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 5):
I think they should order more 73G's to replace their MD-88's. Or replace the M88's when the 737RS comes out. Since 3x 73G's almost equals 2x 757's, a fleet of the 737's could give more frequency to many markets and free up 757's for use elsewhere.

Why? There is nothing wrong with their md88's, they're great shape, and newer than some of the other metal in their fleet! The md80 is a great aircraft, with a great safety record, and is very dependable, I'm not sure why so many people want them gone?


User currently offlineUnited319 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14717 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AASuper80 (Reply 16):
Why? There is nothing wrong with their md88's, they're great shape, and newer than some of the other metal in their fleet! The md80 is a great aircraft, with a great safety record, and is very dependable, I'm not sure why so many people want them gone?

I second that one, I just flew DL a couple of weeks ago for the first time since 2003. I was on 2MD88s, 1CR7, and 1738. The MD-88s were extremely comfortable boasting the new leather seats, extended overhead bins, hardwood floor panelling in the LAV. They are much nicer than any of the other MD-80s around (cough, cough AA)



It's Time To Fly
User currently offlineDL777Dude From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 14061 times:

While in the subject of Delta and ordering planes, do you think that we will be seeing some orders announce next week when they exit bankruptcy protection?

[Edited 2007-04-24 13:08:29]

User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13995 times:

Quoting DL777Dude (Reply 18):
While in the subject of Delta and ordering planes, do you think that we will be seeing some orders announce next week when they exit bankruptcy protection?

I think you will hear some orders very soon after exiting BK, but I doubt it will be next week. Within a month or two would be my guess. I think the first thing you will hear, before aircraft orders, will be the sale of Comair.

[Edited 2007-04-24 13:20:19]

User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13911 times:

Bombardier should be pushing a nice deal on launcing their C-Series at Delta with some 900's in the mix as well. That would fill the gap nicely.

Does anyone know if Bombardier has the liquidity to take a loss on a sale to Delta to get the ball rolling?


User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13816 times:

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 20):
Delta with some 900's in the mix as well

Delta Connection (Skywest) is already operating the CRJ-900.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13594 times:

They should also think about adding the 736. They should've ordered more 73G. Maybe 30 at least.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineGlobalATL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13515 times:

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 3):
Looks like somebody should have ordered the 717

That'd be a good solution, IMO. There's so many options available in todays market than there was ten yrs ago. IMO.

[Edited 2007-04-24 14:27:08]

[Edited 2007-04-24 14:31:49]

User currently offlineJayspilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13296 times:

As said earlier in the thread, I second the belief that the E-Jets are the only airplane that is a true solution for Delta. I predict 25 orders for the E-195 by Labor Day for delivery starting in Late Spring 2008 with a 2 class layout in the 98-105 seat range.

My reasoning for this is:

737-600 is to heavy and has to high operating costs for this market size.
A-318 also to heavy and to high operating costs
CRJ-1000 is just a little smaller for 2 class layout.
C-series won't exist for 3-5 years and they need an A/c in the 18 month timeframe.


25 DAYflyer : Bingo. Looks like somebody at DL dropped the ball on fleet planning a bit. Now they only have the CRJ 900 or the E jets to choose from...I dont see t
26 DAL767400ER : No, they shouldn't. The 736 lacks the range, is too heavy, and the 73G can operate the same missions with better performance and almost identical ope
27 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : What city groups would you see these aircraft used for? What hubs will see the biggest share of their use? I don't think they'll be used to enhance f
28 DeltaDAWG : DL needs the a/c quicker than Bombardier could deliver a new a/c. The 900's are already being rolled into DL Conx as we write. I would bet there will
29 Post contains images Alitalia744 : - the 736 will not live in Delta's fleet. the airplane is too much beef for a half vegetarian. - the 73G will be an interim solution to help fill the
30 Skibum9 : So I have to wonder, how much is fleet commonality going into DLs fleet decisions? DL went through a pretty large effort to retire airplanes not only
31 Alitalia744 : As they transition to new fleets, there will always be interim "messes" g
32 Flyboyaz : AA isn't in BK...they can't afford all that stuff! LOL
33 Kraw : I'm no A&P, but most all of the Alerts we have here at ATL are either mad dogs or CRJ's. I would say 2 a week are MD's with hydraulic problems. The l
34 Jayspilot : I think when delta made the post for 4 Mainline aircraft they were hoping (wishfull thinking) that the E-175-195's would be given to DL connection . T
35 Smashme33 : People are probably bored with flying on MD-88s all the time...DL has so many that your chances of getting on one are high. The routes I fly usually
36 Okie73 : curious why you think Delta will go with the 195 instead of the 190? Sounds like Delta wants a 100 seat aircraft and its my understanding that USAir
37 Papatango : On the wide body side do you think Delta will order any 777-300ER'S ?
38 MCOflyer : Nope 99. F11 Y88. The E190 would make a good DL plane for what DL wants. MCOflyer
39 Post contains links and images SLCUT2777 :    I couldn't agree with you more! I think the philosophy and tradition of seeking Douglas Aircraft first is what put DL on the road to BK. The MD-
40 Post contains links Clipper136 : Don't forget that DL has a substantial 732 fleet that filled that roll (sub 140 seats) for many years. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1085823/L/ D
41 GlobalATL : No question about it. Agree 100%
42 Post contains images PGNCS : Alert American, the biggest MD-80 operator in the world and the only major legacy airline to have never been in bankruptcy!
43 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : While AA has had a HUGE fleet of MD-8X a/c, they now have the highest debt load of any North American carrier, and many are saying they will be hinde
44 PGNCS : Yes, my point exactly. How is THAT the fault of the MD-80?
45 GlobalATL : Personally, I'm not all that crazy for the 88s but who can DL thank for them being aquired? QUOTE..."We don't want to be the largest airline; we just
46 MPDPilot : couldn't have said it better myself. this plane is perfect for what delta needs at the moment. sometimes I jut wonder about weather boeing should jus
47 SLCUT2777 : Thank you Ronald W. Allen! When AA began to acquire their MD-80 fleet back in the early 1980s, there weren't as many options other than the fact that
48 CWAFlyer : Then they could be operating two types that aren't built anymore. By waiting, the 190/195 is a much better option as SLCUT2777 said earlier. I think
49 Danairbus : SLC-PIT will be upgraded to an MD-90 soon.[Edited 2007-04-24 20:51:13]
50 EBJ1248650 : I don't see that happening. It sounds like Delta already has the 787 in mind.
51 CWAFlyer : Not until June 7.
52 DeltaL1011man : i dont see DL selling OH only because there is no one that wants them.
53 PGNCS : The Western 737 was a small subfleet for Delta, and the Western 733s had next to nothing in common with anything else in the fleet. Why would Delta h
54 Floridaflyboy : I think there is a lot of potential for the aircraft out of the SLC hub. Routes like SLC-BIL, SLC-BZN, SLC-BOI, SLC-GEG, SLC-MSO could easily support
55 Steeler83 : I am sure the BOD at Midwest would love DL should they pursue something like that! But, is this even a remote possiblility??? Sure, it's about a mont
56 Dbo861 : What makes you say no one wants them? Based on the rumors I've heard around CVG, I'd be surprised if there WASN'T new owner by the end of the summer.
57 Lexy : Would the E190's help fill this gap????
58 TrijetsRMissed : The DL MD-88's are by far nicer than many of the old MD-82's at AA. But the ex-TW MD-83's AA flies are fairly nice, the cabins feel brand new. No cha
59 Floridaflyboy : I recall riding on a brand-new MD-90 from SLC-BIL back in 1996! I remember the captain announcing that "The new car smell isthe real deal, as this is
60 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : I was actually referring to the MD-11, but the last MD-90 was delivered to DL in 1996 as well. That's pretty cool to fly on the aircraft's first reve
61 Post contains images Floridaflyboy : Ya, I knew you were meaning MD-11. I was just on a tangent, as usual The route was operated by the B727 up until 1996, when it was transitioned to a
62 Post contains images UA_727 : Are you for real about this? I would be *very* surprised - DL has virtually cannibalized itself in BIL since it went all crj. The service and reliabi
63 Floridaflyboy : Yeah, I've heard this straight from the mouth of a regional manager based in SLC, as well as a marketing exec in ATL. Again, there is no timeline for
64 Post contains images UA_727 : hmmm - well, thanks for the info - very exciting for our (...my "ex"... : ) community. I haven't been back in a few months, but evidently they're hal
65 Post contains images DL4EVR : Well I know someone who will be happy. Hopefully they will have PTV's.
66 MCOflyer : Ok, why no big order for 73G's. I know cost is up there but wouldn't routes that fill up these planes off set the cost? MCOflyer
67 Alitalia744 : There are 15 or so on the plan for right now. While DL needs the lift, they are mostly buying them to free-up 757s that op into airports that could u
68 Floridaflyboy : When I was through there last month, they had started the new jetways. We actually used one, and it was nice! It was actually designed to go with an
69 1337Delta764 : They will most likely feature PTVs. Very few airlines will purchase new international long-haul aircraft without them. From the factory, the 787 is o
70 1337Delta764 : Sorry to bump, but one other thing that I also have been wondering is whether Delta would install any form of IFE on a new 100-seater. The 737-700s ar
71 Boeing7E7 : Two things: Noise and Fuel consumption.
72 PGNCS : They meet Stage 3 noise requirements and can, therefore, operate at nearly any airport in the US. They do burn more fuel per ASM than newer aircraft.
73 Boeing7E7 : But they don't fit Delta's desire to change it's environmental policy.
74 Bmacleod : DL must be following AC on this one. Before 767s were common on AC routes between 2-3 hours. Now except for YYZ-YUL the majority of AC domestic 767 s
75 Floridaflyboy : Although I know it's not going to happen, I sure wouldn't mind seeing DL take delivery of a few more 764s. Those are the best planes I've ever had th
76 PGNCS : Oh, whatever. Yeah, Delta would like lower fuel consumption and emissions, just like every other airline. That doesn't make it onto the radar of the
77 BigJKU : I don't get the bickering over Delta replacing its narrowbody aircraft. Lets be realistic about this. 1. No airline is going to place an order for a l
78 Post contains images PGNCS : That is perhaps the most lucid statement made in this thread, and I think you are exactly on the mark. Some people don't like the MD-80 series, but i
79 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Many of the larger NW states (& provinces for our Canadian readers! ) destinations do have some potential. DL wants to have at least one mainline fli
80 Floridaflyboy : Actually, as I mentioned in above posts, Delta is very seriously looking at BIL, BZN, and FCA as potential destinations to return to with mainline. T
81 SLCUT2777 : FCA is clearly a strong seasonal candidate to do this, as is BIL. We could see a few more CRJ destinations pop-up as well in the greater region such
82 Floridaflyboy : Yeah, absolutely. And, the exec I talked to never mentioned whether it would be year-round or seasonal. I would imagine that in all likelihood, we'd
83 Flyb : Hopefully Delta adds these mainline flights soon, I know people that will choose any airline flying transborder from YEG over Delta because the CRJ10
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