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Delta Expects To Soar After Exiting Chapter 11  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3094 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

Courtesy: USA Today

Delta Expects To Soar After Exiting Chapter 11

http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...04-23-delta-1b-usat_N.htm?csp=N008

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

The delta haters wont care for the article, but its a good read. Delta should probably send a nice thank you card to UA and US for some good CH11 lessons learned which probably saved DL 100's of millions of $$$.

The article also makes you wonder what UA was doing during their 38 month stay....



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4550 times:

Does anyone expect DL to put out this article as news:

"Delta Expects to Fail After Exiting Chapter 11, Liquidation Within 18 Months..."

Of course not.

So an airlne leaving bankruptcy "expects" to succeed.

Wow. Stop the presses...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
The delta haters wont care for the article, but its a good read. Delta should probably send a nice thank you card to UA and US for some good CH11 lessons learned which probably saved DL 100's of millions of $$$.

The article also makes you wonder what UA was doing during their 38 month stay....

I likewise enjoyed what USAToday writer Marilyn Adams wrote. You're correct the DL haters will go ape-$h%* on this one and throw the mother of all  hissyfit s.
As for UA, I think Ms Adams summed it up by pointing out DL had good BK counsel that knew how to put together good deals and get out of BK in half the time it took UA to navigate through it. To top it off compare Grinstein's attitude towards financial reward with Tilton's. Both UA and AA have labor issues to deal with on the horizon.
Thank heavens US wasn't the rescue card for DL!



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1256 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

The impression that I get from this article is essentially that going into bankruptcy, DL was horribly run (8 people average on a 767????), and that coming out, it's okay, not wonderful. Just because their functioning under bankruptcy was more efficient than UA's doesn't mean it's entirely roses.

That said, congrats to DL, their employees, and their less-selfish-than usual management. This has always seemed like a good airline hurt by some poor decisions lingering over time, and hopefully this bankruptcy solved them.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4875 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4494 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Does anyone expect DL to put out this article as news:

"Delta Expects to Fail After Exiting Chapter 11, Liquidation Within 18 Months..."

Of course not.

To be fair, I believe the USA Today article was not a DL press release


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 5):
To be fair, I believe the USA Today article was not a DL press release

Believe what you want...  Wink

Seriously, these kind of articles are not investigative reporting. They are interviewing a company to find out what they want to say, then printing most of it. It's USA today after all. All the news that fits in one small box...

We'll see what the WSJ has to say about all of the roses.

I think DL will do fine. I don't think they will "soar" or liquidate. Just, you know, do fine.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWestJetYQQ From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

Quote:
"We were flying a 767 on a 9 p.m. flight from Fort Myers to Atlanta that had eight people on it, on average," Hauenstein recalls. "We had a mismatch of fleet to markets. Those planes were capable of flying much different missions."

Yeah. Does that not explain the entire reason for bankruptcy right there?

Glad to see Delta ready to thrive once again. I was expecting Delta to pull through and fix their financial problems, and they did.

Good Job Delta!

Cheers
Carson



Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Delta should probably send a nice thank you card to UA and US for some good CH11 lessons learned which probably saved DL 100's of millions of $$$

UA by far had the most complicated case, due to its size. UA learned from US, in that you don't leave a penny of savings on the table in the first round of Ch. 11. UA was far better off going in, spending as long as it took, then get out and not ever have to reenter. The chances of reemerging from Ch. 11 a 2nd time and surviving long term go way down....only US and CO have done so that I know of.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 3):
As for UA, I think Ms Adams summed it up by pointing out DL had good BK counsel that knew how to put together good deals and get out of BK in half the time it took UA to navigate through it.

What Ms. Adams doesn't understand is my first comment above. Some journalists are better than others. WSJ business writers, as well as the publications, are a much higher caliber of quality than USA Today.


User currently offlineAA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4360 times:

I will say again what I told those who proclaimed that USAir would take the world by storm after exiting Ch.11 (the FIRST time...) : No company comes rocketing out of Ch. 11. You try to gain a little momentum and eake out a little operating profit (much easier now than when either USAir or UAL exited) and secure your foothold.

I believe Delta will do ok. JUST ok. If the economy tanks, all bets are off. If they get a bunch of new airplanes right away, they will pay through the nose because of their credit rating. If they give it a little time and show some solid quarters, they will get a better deal.

Good luck. TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4323 times:

I dont understand the part in the article saying,

''At the start of the bankruptcy, Delta also led the industry in the number of very early and very late departures. Many flights departed around 5 a.m. or after 9 p.m. Today, the bulk of flying starts later and ends earlier, creating efficiencies''

How is it better to have an aircraft in the sky for fewer hours???????


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Quoting AA717driver (Reply 9):
I believe Delta will do ok. JUST ok.

You're crazy! They won't do ok. They will clearly do fine!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
think DL will do fine. I don't think they will "soar" or liquidate. Just, you know, do fine.

Okay my ass...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

Quoting AA717driver (Reply 9):
If they give it a little time and show some solid quarters, they will get a better deal.

That's what UA is doing...laying low on the aircraft purchases and other big capital investments. They just paid $972 million, which got their aircraft and route authorities out of collateral, and that also helped reduce their cost of borrowing as well.

Quoting AA717driver (Reply 9):
If the economy tanks

...or jet fuel prices go up...

How well the bankrupt airlines manage things over the next 2-3 years will determine who survives the next big downturn.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

Quoting N174UA (Reply 8):
The chances of reemerging from Ch. 11 a 2nd time and surviving long term go way down....only US and CO have done so that I know of.

By early 2005, US was essentially runway/taxiway kill after having to petition a 2nd time in just 2.5 years. Doug Parker and HP threw them the lifeline needed.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 8):
What Ms. Adams doesn't understand is my first comment above. Some journalists are better than others. WSJ business writers, as well as the publications, are a much higher caliber of quality than USA Today.

While there is little doubt that the WSJ and other financial publications are better than USAToday, the latter does a better job of reaching out to a lay readership which many of not most a.netter's are. You're very correct that UA was a much more complicated case with many more contentious issues. Even for much of 2003, liquidation hung over their heads as a real distinct possibility.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting N174UA (Reply 12):
That's what UA is doing...laying low on the aircraft purchases and other big capital investments. They just paid $972 million, which got their aircraft and route authorities out of collateral, and that also helped reduce their cost of borrowing as well.

But they are paying Glenn Tilton far and away too many $$$ which is setting the stage for some significant labor strife. Airlines Executives with a company just fresh out of BK need to follow Gerald Grinstein's example and not take the big $$$ bonuses until they have their destiny much more assured then they are. DL will actually be in a better position to get new a/c and capitol equipment post-BK since they spent less $$$ and deferred several deliveries pre-BK. Just 2nd hand a/c (P&W 752s from AA) and nothing new until 2008.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting N174UA (Reply 8):
UA by far had the most complicated case, due to its size.

United is not that much larger than Delta.



Fly Delta!
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 15):
United is not that much larger than Delta.

Agreed. But UA had a very high hurdle to clear with it's various union groups, whereas DL only had the pilots to negotiate with. UA also had about $3B in unencumbered assets (meaning assets not already held as collateral) in Dec. 2002 when they filed, whereas I don't believe Delta had nearly that much.

My overall point was that DL had the luxury of watching US, then UA go through Ch. 11 in the post 9/11 era, and therefore they could learn from the mistakes that were made, and adjust accordingly. US survived, UA did a little better, and NW/DL will do better than US and UA.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 14):
But they are paying Glenn Tilton far and away too many $$$ which is setting the stage for some significant labor strife. Airlines

Most of that is stock-related, and on PAPER only....if the stock price plummets, so does Glenn's potential payday when he finally does go to sell those options. The opposite is also true. The big dollars you're hearing about are on paper only right now. It's also true that the union groups did approve Tilton's compensation package, as they were on the creditor committee.

In all, I'm glad that DL will reemerge and I hope they do well.


User currently offlineJustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1037 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Delta was very bold in remaking itself 60 new international destinations is extremely aggressive and is very strong medicine for what the company needed. It's asset utilization is way better than before and they are now similarly positioning themselves like CO. The high international / premiume business mix is a good business model, but you need quality minded people to pull it off and Delta has a motivated workforce. They are streched pretty thin though so the next year and a half or so will tell the bigger story. But they did about as well a job as one can imagine, congratulations to a great airline.

User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3802 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

Quoting AA717driver (Reply 9):
If the economy tanks, all bets are off.

Good point. To me it is when the U.S. economy tanks... Any economy driven by consumer spending that exceeds income (as is currently the case, and has been for some time) is a house of cards sure to take a tumble; the only question is when, and how serious will be the fall thereof? And when it happens, the surest bet is that the U.S. legacies will be asking "what happened?" to their much-hyped return to profitability. And, as usual, they will contrive all of the usual strawman excuses for the disappearance of profitability when, in fact, the real culprit will be the fact that their revenues will no longer subsidize the high costs of the vast subculture of frequent flyer freeloaders (as well as legions of not-so-frequent flyer freeloaders), created by the legacies' own marketing and frequent flyer programs, that can be sustained only when the economy is in "overdrive" -- which will end rather abruptly when creditors make the inevitable decision that it is time to pull the proverbial plug on their irresponsible easy credit schemes that have resulted in unsustanable consumer debt. Will not be unlike fall from fortune that was happening to the U.S. legacies back in late 2000 to early 2001 when the dot.com bubble burst, before 9/11/01 gave the legacies the excuse they were looking for in deflecting the blame from management ineptitude to a tragic event beyond their control.

[Edited 2007-04-25 01:57:50]

User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1256 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 10):
How is it better to have an aircraft in the sky for fewer hours???????

When the flights it operates in that time lose money, such as the 767 averaging 8 people that the article cites. 8 tickets don't pay for fuel, crew, landing fees, etc.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2820 posts, RR: 45
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 5):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Does anyone expect DL to put out this article as news:

"Delta Expects to Fail After Exiting Chapter 11, Liquidation Within 18 Months..."

Of course not.


To be fair, I believe the USA Today article was not a DL press release

You beat me to it! Thanks!


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8893 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 10):

How is it better to have an aircraft in the sky for fewer hours???????

When it's flying at times people don't want to fly, it goes empty and thus loses money. For example, many people don't like 5 a.m. flights - that means they need to be at the airport at about 4 a.m., which often means waking up between 2 and 2:30 a.m. - much too early for most people. People can swallow a 3-3:30 a.m. wake-up every once in a while; 2-2:30 a.m. is another story. They'd much rather take a 6 a.m. flight and get that extra hour of sleep.

On the flip side, a 9 p.m. flight might be attractive to some, but not if there's not enough O&D to fill it. For example, a 9 p.m. Shuttle from LGA to BOS will be fine - there's plenty of O&D there. But when it's going up to ATL, arriving at 10:45ish and thus only having a handful of connections that passengers can go onto, the plane won't fill up. Move it up an hour so it arrives at 9:45ish, and there's still the whole last bank of flights to connect to, which can fill up a plane a lot easier.


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