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Chartering A Private 747?  
User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

if an aircraft is privately owned & registered, how can it be chartered for commercial purposes?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting Easyas321 (Thread starter):
if an aircraft is privately owned & registered, how can it be chartered for commercial purposes?

Define "Privately." If the private operator has a part 135 or 121 certificate, than they can charter their aircraft IIRC. Technically, Sun Country and I think Allegiant as well are both privately owned companies.


User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 1):
Define "Privately." If the private operator has a part 135 or 121 certificate, than they can charter their aircraft IIRC.

can u explain what is a part 135 or 121 certificate ? Presume they are a U.S. certificate & only relates to U.S. registered aircraft. What's IIRC?

Michael


User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

Since you are in the UK, you might want to check with Air Atlanta or Travel City Direct/XCEL. They
have B747's available for charter. Even Virgin or BA make aircraft available if its cost effective.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 3):
Since you are in the UK,

not in the UK-in the best country in the world !!!


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 9 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 2):
can u explain what is a part 135 or 121 certificate ?

Basically, the regulations that govern air carriers.

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 2):
What's IIRC?

If I Recall Correctly.


User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 9 hours ago) and read 3190 times:

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 5):
Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 2):
can u explain what is a part 135 or 121 certificate ?

Basically, the regulations that govern air carriers.

but not private aircraft ?????


User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 4):
not in the UK-in the best country in the world !!!

That is the UK  Smile

Most airlines will charter an aircraft for private or personal use.



One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 1):
...and I think Allegiant as well are both privately owned companies.

Allegiant went public last year and is now traded on the NASDAQ exchange, symbol ALGT



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 6):
but not private aircraft ?????

I'm assuming by "private" you mean owned by an individual? If so, it is possible that an individual could have an aircraft on a Part 135 or 121 certificate. However, this is very expensive to do, therefore it is highly unlikely that that you would find such an aircraft.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2579 times:
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Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 6):
but not private aircraft ?????

But if they wished to charter their aircraft for passenger use those rules would applay, or their local equivelent



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineJbernie From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

I guess some more information from the thread starter would help, but let me throw out a possibility. One of the Sultans or something in the Middle East has a large private jet (or 5  Wink). As the owner of the jet, would he be able to say have some other very rich person pay him an agreed upon fee for the 2nd person and few hundred "friends" to say travel from Dubai to London to watch the FA Cup Final or something?

This would be as opposed to a charter in the form of some of the budget travel companies that would charter a jet to carry a few hundred unrelated people to a vacation spot, say London to Jamaica. (Maybe a Thomas Cook?)


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

The tax implications of selling charters on your personal 747 are really complicated. It's easier to create an LLC so the customers cannot sue you personally (if it crashes) and take all your money. Then it's a business you own, and whenever you fly, you need to pay your own business for it... a real pain. Also, a business can't be a personal money-losing party machine. Businesses have to carry their weight or else the IRS comes knocking.

So it's not worth the bother unless some really slick broker builds a network of say 30 super clean VIP jets that private owners make available (like vacation properties). Maybe somebody out there does this.


User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2249 times:

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 10):
Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 6):
but not private aircraft ?????

But if they wished to charter their aircraft for passenger use those rules would applay, or their local equivelent

but not talking about chartering it

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 7):
Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 4):
not in the UK-in the best country in the world !!!

Australia not UK !!!

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 10):
but not private aircraft ?????

But if they wished to charter their aircraft for passenger use those rules would applay, or their local equivelent

the 747SP is apparently registered in Aruba but is just parked in the USA 300+ days a year by U.S. owner.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
The tax implications of selling charters on your personal 747 are really complicated. It's easier to create an LLC so the customers cannot sue you personally (if it crashes) and take all your money. Then it's a business you own, and whenever you fly, you need to pay your own business for it... a real pain. Also, a business can't be a personal money-losing party machine. Businesses have to carry their weight or else the IRS comes knocking.

Tax implications in Aruba ? Isn't it a tax haven? Regardless out of IRS juristiction.


User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 13):

Tax implications in Aruba ? Isn't it a tax haven? Regardless out of IRS juristiction.

Taxes don't have as much to do with it, if it's a privately operated aircraft, all it's flight operations will be conducted in the U.S. under 14 CFR part 91. Under those rules, people can rent your aircraft, but you can't do things like on-demand air taxi, as that intrudes into 14 CFR part 135, and if you don't have the 135 certificate, you cant charter. 14 CFR part 121 is the most strict, generally has the least amount of fatal accidents, and is the FAR that the airlines operate under.


User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 14):
Taxes don't have as much to do with it, if it's a privately operated aircraft, all it's flight operations will be conducted in the U.S. under 14 CFR part 91. Under those rules, people can rent your aircraft, but you can't do things like on-demand air taxi, as that intrudes into 14 CFR part 135, and if you don't have the 135 certificate, you cant charter. 14 CFR part 121 is the most strict, generally has the least amount of fatal accidents, and is the FAR that the airlines operate under.

then what if it didn't operate in the U.S. ? What about from Canada ? Do they have similar rules ?


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 14):
all it's flight operations will be conducted in the U.S. under 14 CFR part 91.

I would think it would be operated under the Department of Civil Aviation Aruba rules in accordance with the Aruba Aviation Act.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 16):
I would think it would be operated under the Department of Civil Aviation Aruba rules in accordance with the Aruba Aviation Act.

which are probably a lot slacker than US rules ???


User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Heres another Semi-related question: If that 747SP is registered in aruba Can that aircraft legally transport paying passengers between two points in the US or would that be considered Cabotage?

User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

Quoting N353SK (Reply 18):
If that 747SP is registered in aruba Can that aircraft legally transport paying passengers between two points in the US or would that be considered Cabotage?

I'm not an expert on this, but it would seem to me that as long as the owner and/or operator of the aircraft is US based, then cabotage would not apply. I can't find a photo of it now, but Frontier operated an Irish registered B732 for a time.


User currently offlineEasyas321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting N353SK (Reply 18):
Heres another Semi-related question: If that 747SP is registered in aruba Can that aircraft legally transport paying passengers between two points in the US or would that be considered Cabotage?

simplistically ... think this is the case ???

Carriers often lease foreign aircraft for short periods to cover for aircraft undergoing maintenance. These aircraft operate under the AOC of the operator, so if the operator was American then not cabotage issues.


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