Goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1672 posts, RR: 3 Posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2867 times:
Official confirmation of something "rumored" before. From AF web site :
Air France has been operating flights to Australia on a code-share basis with Qantas since December 2004. The two airlines offer customers connecting flights via Singapore to 5 destinations: Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney.
From 1 May 2007, the code-share agreement with Qantas will be expanded to cover the 3 Australian cities of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane via Hong Kong.
Air France will be increasing its Paris - Hong Kong service, with an additional 3 weekly flights starting on 11 June, representing a total of 13 weekly frequencies.
Passengers will benefit from a large choice of flight times and a total 48 weekly frequencies to Australia (31 via Singapore, 17 via Hong Kong). The same fares will apply to both these routings. Customers will now be able to fly via one point and return via a different point, or even stop over in any of these destinations.
Members of the Air France-KLM Flying Blue frequent flyer programme can earn Miles on their entire trip made on "AF" flights via Hong-Kong as well as via Singapore. They will also now be able to use their Miles on the Qantas domestic network.
Jonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 494 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2790 times:
Quoting Goldorak (Thread starter): Members of the Air France-KLM Flying Blue frequent flyer programme can earn Miles on their entire trip made on "AF" flights via Hong-Kong as well as via Singapore. They will also now be able to use their Miles on the Qantas domestic network.
But you have to claim your miles on the SIN-SYD-SIN journey as they are not credited automatically (at least in my case).
And most tickets do not give you full miles. Better to call and check the booking class rather than booking over the internet.
AF & QF have already an extensive and very profitable codeshare agreement on the Paris-Australia route via SIN.
AF can not add any more frequency on the CDG-SIN route to face to demand (AF was even studying the possibility to use the A380 on the CDG-SIN route if no more traffic rights are granted in the coming years).
At the same time, AF holds a strong position on the Chinese market, and increased recently its frequencies on the CDG-HKG route. This is a good opportunity for both AF and QF to offer another choice, with another stopover ... and to fill in the planes.
As said by FlySSC, Air France is facing capacity constraints at SIN, the current hub for the AF-QF codeshare deal. I would have expected AF to add capacity to the CDG SIN route, but I wasn't aware that bilateral restrictions are precluding such a move. AF has recently added CDG HKG capacity, and will be operating up to 13 weekly roundtrips this summer. An expansion of the AF-SQ cooperation through this gateway makes therefore a lot of sense.
SKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 843 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2171 times:
I understand the relationship/code-share AF-QF via SIN, but to do it via HKG, choose CX looks like more logic as CX is an oneworld partner + CX flies daily HKG-CDG
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3): This is a good opportunity for both AF and QF to offer another choice, with another stopover ... and to fill in the planes
Specially for AF, I guess
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4): AF has recently added CDG HKG capacity, and will be operating up to 13 weekly roundtrips this summer. An expansion of the AF-SQ cooperation through this gateway makes therefore a lot of sense.
Then, it makes a lot of sense just because AF increases the CDG-HKG capacity? It seems a very simple reply.
GneissGuy From Singapore, joined Jul 2006, 199 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1982 times:
Quoting LawnDart (Reply 6): Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
AF can not add any more frequency on the CDG-SIN
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
expected AF to add capacity to the CDG SIN route, but I wasn't aware that bilateral restrictions are precluding such a move.
I always thought Singapore had a blanket open-skies policy...is that incorrect?
There's no such thing as a "blanket open-skies policy". Singapore has a very liberal policy, but air traffic rights as negotiated bilaterally, so i would suspect that although AF wants to increase capacity into SIN, they are not willing to grant the similar increase for SQ into CDG, thus it would not be fair to the Singapore carrier im such an instance. So as much as Singapore has an open-skies policy (in that it does not protect its own carriers), it will also have to ensure that foreign carriers do not have a competitive edge when it comes to air rights negotiation. Thus, SIN will be happy to grant rights to any carrier wishing to operate into Singapore, provided the other country does likewise.
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7312 posts, RR: 61 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1919 times:
Quoting AH332 (Reply 8): Is this why Qantas axed their route to CDG?
No. QF stopped flying to CDG before the codeshare agreement with AF was signed.
Actually, QF stopped and restarted CDG several times in the past 20 years.
Quoting AH332 (Reply 8): Did they see more profitability with code sharing instead of using their own metal?
The route Paris-SYD has never been profitable for any airline who tried to operate it : UT, AF, QF or AOM.
This codeshare agreement via SIN proved to be very successful and profitable for both AF & QF.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1823 times:
Quoting SKY1 (Reply 5): Then, it makes a lot of sense just because AF increases the CDG-HKG capacity? It seems a very simple reply.
Nothing simple about my reply. AF is facing capacity restraints at SIN because of the lack of additional rights there. Further growth of the AF-QF cooperation calls for more seats to be added. Since those seats can't be added at the current gateway of the cooperation (SIN), it makes sense to pick HKG as a second gateway, for sure since there is plenty of capacity there giving AF's recent upgrade from daily to 10 and now 13 weekly flights.