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VS Selects B787, Part 2  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5788 times:
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Now that part one VS Selects The 787 (by N1786b Apr 24 2007 in Civil Aviation) has reached over 208 replys, here part 2.

Boeing have released an artist impression on what the B789 will look like in VS's colours and it looks nice. The picture is in part 1. Boeing has certainly hit a winner with the B787

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5759 times:

OK, Just to clear me up a little, does this VS order identify the 15 UFO orders from few weeks ago or it is half of the 30 UFO 787 orders placed 2 weeks ago? Are we still waiting for a surprise customer on the big 30pc 787 order?

As to the infos I gathered the 30 are 788s and VS ordered the 789, so I'd expect that the big customer is still to be revieled, but I might be wrong in that the 30pc order was not all for 788s



Peet7G
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5759 times:


The Boeing Co.


[Edited 2007-04-25 08:03:52]


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3189 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5686 times:

From the previous thread; the breakdown of the order is:

- VS have ordered 15 firm 789s
- VS have taken 8 x 789 Options
- VS Have taken 20 additional Purchase Rights on unspecified models of the 787
- The 15 firm have been booked as UFO



Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5665 times:



I'm also interested in VS possibly ordering the A350XWB as well. It was discussed lightly in the first thread.

Quoting Reuters.uk:
CHICAGO, April 24 (Reuters) - Virgin Atlantic [VA.UL] Chairman Sir Richard Branson said on Tuesday the British airline could still consider buying Airbus' A350 jet if it proved to be more fuel efficient than Boeing Co.'s (BA.N: Quote, Profile , Research) rival 787 Dreamliner.

Branson's comments, made after Virgin announced an order of 15 787s worth about $2.8 billion, threw a lifeline to European planemaker Airbus, an EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile , Research) affiliate, which is struggling to make inroads into the lucrative wide-body market with the revamped design of its competing A350 jet.

"The 787 is available and it performs very well," Branson said at a press conference at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.

Branson, who has publicly expressed concerns about airlines' impact on the environment, said Virgin would consider alternatives to the 787 if they proved more fuel efficient. "That's what competition is all about," he said.



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days ago) and read 5527 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 1):
Does this VS order identify the 15 UFO orders from few weeks ago or it is half of the 30 UFO 787 orders placed 2 weeks ago?

These were ordered on the 9th of March, was listed as 15 UFO 789s, and was not half of the 30 UFO 788s that were ordered two weeks ago.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 1):
Are we still waiting for a surprise customer on the big 30pc 787 order?

Yes, this order will be announced at the Paris Air Show.


User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting Brendows (Reply 5):
Yes, this order will be announced at the Paris Air Show.

Damn, the VS order, todays AC announcement ,etc, etc, etc... too much for my nerves now, I will probabl crack if have to wait for the airshow Big grin



Peet7G
User currently offlineBHD From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

Apologise if this has been asked already, but Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380, combining both A & Bs predictions about how future air demand will be relaised?

Thanks
Woody


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5232 times:

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Apologise if this has been asked already, but Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380, combining both A & Bs predictions about how future air demand will be relaised?

...nope...SQ, QF, KE, ILFC and China Southern are some of the ones which have an order for both... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5232 times:

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Apologise if this has been asked already, but Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380, combining both A & Bs predictions about how future air demand will be relaised?

No. SQ, QF...



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineBHD From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
SQ, QF, KE, ILFC and China Southern are some of the ones which have an order for both...

It's interesting that Airbus made a prediction of greater demand for bigger planes, and Boeing made a prediction of great demand for smaller aircraft but point to point. I guess airliners themselves are making a prediction that it will be a combination of such approaches that will drive the demand for air travel. While point to point may be popular, hub and spoke will remain huge, and there are some big hubs out there with some big 'spokes' requiring big planes.

Woody


User currently offlineUALMMFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Damn, the VS order, todays AC announcement ,etc, etc, etc... too much for my nerves now, I will probabl crack if have to wait for the airshow

There is a mew thread just started with the news US is order between 20 to 30 787s in the coming days.



Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1066 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Quoting Panamair:

(from the other thread)
the 787 will be "instrumental in introducing new routes like Bangkok, Melbourne, Rio, Seattle, Toronto, and Vancouver". Also, "both Perth and Hawaii are currently under consideration".

GIG and MEL are "to be introduced" for quite some time. Hope VS doesn't wait for the Dreamliners to do so.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4901 times:

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380

Already ansewered in reply #...which makes me post a similar question....

Is Singapore still the only airline to order both the 787 and A350? and, on a more detailed level, was the order 20 of each a/c?



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Quoting DIA (Reply 13):
Is Singapore still the only airline to order both the 787 and A350? and, on a more detailed level, was the order 20 of each a/c?

At this stage but then SQ have still not signed on the dotted line when they were going to in January.

Why have they not signed. maybe because of A346 and A380 issues SQs lawyers are driving very hard compensation clauses for performance and EIS issues. Airbus need to be sure about EIS and performance specifications are matching projections or Airbus will have a new round of claims that they can ill afford not to mention further damage to their already mauled reputation.


User currently offlineCyatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

It seems that Airbus (due to the later EIS of A350) did not even submit a bid to Virgin.

The following is taken from FlightGLobal.com

"Airbus chief operating officer for customers, John Leahy, said the Toulouse-based company had not even put in a proposal for the A350XWB to Virgin, which needs the new aircraft for service entry in 2011. The A350 is not available until 2014"

Clearly timing played the most important role here hence any references to "Superior product" etc are really not true.

Obviously this is a major problem for Airbus since any carrier that needs airplanes before 2014 will have to order the B787 as no other aircraft is available in that category.

Just for this reason alone I would expect BA to follow since their 767s and 747s are getting really old.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Quoting CyatUK (Reply 15):
Clearly timing played the most important role here hence any references to "Superior product" etc are really not true.

That is a wishful leap that has no basis in reality. If Branson wanted to wait for a better plane, he would. It could just as easily be said that he does not believe the 350 is worth waiting for, so what the hell....

Quoting CyatUK (Reply 15):
767s and 747s are getting really old.

767 sort of, 744 not really.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 6086 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4500 times:

The livery gets worse with no red engines, they should have stuck to this.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q59/collection3/untitled-3.jpg


User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
That is a wishful leap that has no basis in reality. If Branson wanted to wait for a better plane, he would. It could just as easily be said that he does not believe the 350 is worth waiting for, so what the hell....

Unless you work for Virgin or SRB I don't think you are correct saying that as we (including yourself) don't know exaclty what are Virgin's plans for the future and what is discussed behind closed doors regarding a possible expansion of network.

Increasing the fleet size in 2011 is becoming even more important after the Open Skies deal so Virgin really needed a plane sooner than later.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 17):
The livery gets worse with no red engines, they should have stuck to this.

The Boeing image assumes they will go with that grey paint to help improve the flow around the engine cowl. Honestly, IMO very few airlines will go for this unless they already have grey engines, and I doubt Boeing will force them to.


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7442 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3891 times:
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Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
If Branson wanted to wait for a better plane, he would. It could just as easily be said that he does not believe the 350 is worth waiting for, so what the hell....

I imagine that VS may be waiting to see what numbers crop up for the A350 when Airbus contacts them. ....

Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 4):

Quoting Reuters.uk:
CHICAGO, April 24 (Reuters) - Virgin Atlantic [VA.UL] Chairman Sir Richard Branson said on Tuesday the British airline could still consider buying Airbus' A350 jet if it proved to be more fuel efficient than Boeing Co.'s (BA.N: Quote, Profile , Research) rival 787 Dreamliner.

__________

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
767 sort of, 744 not really

The oldest 744s for BA date from 1989, so any anticipated A380 order now may lead to a delivery sometime around 2009/2001 i.e. 20 years usage. As for the 767s, they are slightly younger than the 744; I believe the youngest one was delivered in 1997

____________________

A 787 sized aircraft would be ideal starter aircraft for limited expansion of their MAN services away from their perceived "bucket and spade" orientation at present; if they really want to mean that they are green as their current train adverts imply, perhaps they could money where ther group's mouth is and offer services ex-UK regions on those routes which generate the largest feed from the regions?


User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 14):
Why have they not signed. maybe because of A346 and A380 issues SQs lawyers are driving very hard compensation clauses for performance and EIS issues. Airbus need to be sure about EIS and performance specifications are matching projections or Airbus will have a new round of claims that they can ill afford not to mention further damage to their already mauled reputation.

Excellent point. What was that a few weeks ago? "LH pilots pleased with 380 flight characteristics. Performance looking good?"

IMO, things are not so rosy. I want to see real fuel burn numbers for climb out and cruise, weight, and headwinds from the LH proving flight.



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4851 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 3):

- VS have ordered 15 firm 789s
- VS have taken 8 x 789 Options
- VS Have taken 20 additional Purchase Rights on unspecified models of the 787

I was surprised at first seeing how big an order was placed for the B 789s by VS.

I have a strong feeling that some of these B 789s will be dry leased out to Virgin Nigeria and Virgin Blue to help fuel their international long haul expansion as well.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2129 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting AF086 (Reply 12):
gig and MEL are "to be introduced" for quite some time. Hope VS doesn't wait for the Dreamliners to do so

Well pointed ! They are the two last destinations from VS first "wish list" and now they joined the new list... i really hope to see VS birds on a regular basis in GIG and also MEL before they receive the 787's.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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