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Airbus A330 - The Best Is Yet To Come?  
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17055 times:



Well I have just been looking back on some numbers and I find it truly amazing how well the A330 series has done in the past few years. In doing so it has became apparent to me that despite the A350XWB and the B787 on the horizon, the A330 series may have not yet reached its sales peak.

Since the beginning of 2004, Airbus has managed to sell a total of 225 frames.

2004: 51 frames
2005: 64 frames
2006: 104 frames
2007: 6 frames.


Airbus still has 62 frames/orders that have yet to be finalised.

Current Pending Orders:

Avian Group x 6 (A332F)
Flyington x 6 (A332F)
Intrepid x 20 ( A332F)
MNG x 2 (A332F)
Thai International x 8 (A333)
Transaero x 8 (A332)
Air Asia x 10 (A333)
Oman Air x 5 (A332)
UAE Air Force x 3 (A332MRRT)
Saudi Air Force x 2 (A332MRRT)

Rumours:

Currently their are several rumours floating in regards to up coming orders for the A330.


* The Launch Customer for the A332-200F is yet unknown.
* The USAF still has to opt for the A332MRRT or B767-200 Tanker.
* RAF x 15 (A332MRRT)
* Emirates ( fleet replacement A332/343/B772) stop gap until A350XWB.
* US Airways ( extra frames ) stop gap until A350XWB.
* Le Bourget (Paris Air Show)

So they question is will Airbus manage to break the sales record for the A330 in 2007? The current record is 110 frames ordered in the year 2000.

Regards,
Wings


Aviation Is A Passion.
98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16655 times:

I have to disagree...

I think the A330 has just about reached it's peak and will gradually start sliding away soon.

Recent orders for aircrafts are simply top-up orders or orders for aircraft where airlines cannot simply wait for the 787 to come online.

At this present time the A330 is the most economical twin engine aircraft in it's class, before making the jump to the 777. As we get closer to the first deliveries of the 787 taking place orders will start to depleat and I think we will see it go a similar way to how the 767 has gone.

Also what needs to be considered is that Airbus makes all their sales in USD currency and with this been at a record high against the EUR, this is also effects the bottom line at Airbus. This has more of an effect on the manufacturer regardless of what aircraft is sold, and will probably not be able to see the blinding deals offered on aircraft they offered to airlines a few years back!

[Edited 2007-04-27 01:40:37]

User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16629 times:

Me thinks that a truer picture would be the actual dollar value that Airbus have been able to demand for the A330 sales since 2004. If the margins on 100 airplanes are equal to the profit gained from 20 orders prior to 2004, then they certainly won't be pushing it for long........

Cheers


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4768 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16504 times:
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how can you have A332F orders and no launch customer???

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16483 times:
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She has indeed enjoyed a solid run as of late.

I expect the 777 will continue to enjoy a similar run right up to the A350XWB's roll-out, as well.


User currently offlineKbdude From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16436 times:

A330 (all models) best days are behind it..... to think differently... is to have ROSE COLORED shades on too everything A.

A330's best friend is the A380 delay compensation, A350 re-design/delay interim lift & utterly forget about USAF ordering the A330 as the KC-X replacement. Boeing is a done deal.

A330 will never break 1000 orders....

Big version: Width: 294 Height: 61 File size: 7kb
AIRBUS order website


Boeing 787 firm orders (567) are catching to AIRBUS's best plane design ever, in fact, the A330 will be surpassed fairly soon. That alone speaks volumes for its future.........


User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16387 times:

My sources have told me that AV besides the 30 A320 family aircraft that will very soon be announced as the replacement for the MD83, it has adquiered 3 A330-200 for the Colombia-Spain flights, unfortunatelly these aircraft will only be interim while the 10 B787 order is delivered to the company. Yet I am very excited to see the A330 in AV beautiful livery.

User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16336 times:

Quoting Kbdude (Reply 5):
AIRBUS's best plane design ever

Forgetting about the A320 series  Wink, unless you are only talking about widebodies.

It would be great for the A330 to pass the 1000 orders mark, however for now, we can settle for A330/A340 passing the 1000 orders mark.

Could it be possible to somehow enhance the A330 with minimum costs? Such as new engines. This has probably being asked here alot.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineMX77W From Mexico, joined Apr 2007, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16259 times:

I would only hope that perhaps Airbus will decrease the price of the A33X as demand for it decreases, this way, airlines that have lower funds to order brand new A35X and B787 might be able to order some A33X's for their much needed long-haul enhancement/expansion. I could think of a few Latin American carriers who might benefit from an A33X price drop and others throughout the world. At this point the B787 slots are very restrictred and far off, and the A35X is still a few years away, so may be A33X could reach the 1000 frame line with some suprise order from the unlikeliest carriers.

I ceirtainly hope MX will at least get some for their much needed expansion.

MX 77W



When Will MX Fly to Europe??? I guess '09 is the year!!!
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16232 times:

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Airbus still has 62 frames/orders that have yet to be finalised.

Current Pending Orders:

Avian Group x 6 (A332F)
Flyington x 6 (A332F)
Intrepid x 20 ( A332F)
MNG x 2 (A332F)
Thai International x 8 (A333)
Transaero x 8 (A332)
Air Asia x 10 (A333)
Oman Air x 5 (A332)
UAE Air Force x 3 (A332MRRT)
Saudi Air Force x 2 (A332MRRT)

Hi Wings,

That's 68 you've listed there.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
So they question is will Airbus manage to break the sales record for the A330 in 2007? The current record is 110 frames ordered in the year 2000.

That's not unlikely.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Currently their are several rumours floating in regards to up coming orders for the A330.

Indeed, and while they are 'only' rumours, where there's smoke there's fire. KLM and Air Asia are both expected to add A330s, AY might need some more aswell, Gulf Air too is looking to add A330s. 5 in the short term for Air Asia and Mr. Fernandes said they'll operate upto 25 A330s within 5 years.

Quoting Kbdude (Reply 5):
A330's best friend is the A380 delay compensation, A350 re-design/delay interim lift

Not true. Very few of the more then 100 A330s ordered last year can be attributed to that. LH with 5 aircraft and the add on orders from QF. For this year TG's A330 might have something to do with that, altough they are replacing older A300s.

Quoting Kbdude (Reply 5):
utterly forget about USAF ordering the A330 as the KC-X replacement. Boeing is a done deal.

Not a done deal but I'd be surprised if the USAF would order the A330 indeed. Likewise the RAF will most likely go ahead with the purchase of the A330 rather then a Boeing tanker.

Quoting Kbdude (Reply 5):
A330 will never break 1000 orders....

Don't put money on that. You're going to loose it. Airbus will soon start producing 9 aircraft a month and increase that even further to 10. And that increase isn't needed to deliver the curent backlog alone.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 1):
Recent orders for aircrafts are simply top-up orders or orders for aircraft where airlines cannot simply wait for the 787 to come online.

Not only top-up orders, there have been several orders from airlines that have never ordered the A330 before. Most recently Air Asia and Finnair. Of the 4 airlines, mentioned by Wings, that have pending orders for the A330 only one has already got the A330 in her fleet.



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User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16209 times:

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 7):
It would be great for the A330 to pass the 1000 orders mark, however for now, we can settle for A330/A340 passing the 1000 orders mark.

That has happened already.

Quoting MX77W (Reply 8):
I would only hope that perhaps Airbus will decrease the price of the A33X as demand for it decreases

Demand isn't decreasing. The best proof is Airbus planned production increase.



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User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16184 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
That has happened already.

Yes sorry thats what I ment. It's just the crap way I worded my sentence.

The A330 itself may not pass the 1000 mark this year, but I think in 3 to 4 years, it may well pass the 1000 mark. I can imagine alot of freighter orders happening.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16136 times:

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 11):
Yes sorry thats what I ment. It's just the crap way I worded my sentence.

Must have misunderstood you.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 11):
The A330 itself may not pass the 1000 mark this year, but I think in 3 to 4 years, it may well pass the 1000 mark. I can imagine alot of freighter orders happening.

Absolutely. The freighter isn't launched with selling only 50 aircraft in mind. There's a lot of A300F's that need replacement. MNG was the first A300F that has come out saying it intends to order the A330F, but won't be the last.



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User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15984 times:

Quoting MX77W (Reply 8):
I ceirtainly hope MX will at least get some for their much needed expansion.

Well, if they want planes to fly to EZE, GRU, GIG and SCL, then the A332 is a great choice. As for Europe, I am not so sure how an A332 would fare from MEX to, say, FRA during the warm weather season... seems to me that the altitude of MEX could mean perhaps some weight penalties, though I am not completely sure. Finally, I have no idea if an A332 has the legs to do TIJ-PVG or TIJ-PEK but I am thinking it would also have weight penalties.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineBigJKU From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 880 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15929 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
Don't put money on that. You're going to loose it. Airbus will soon start producing 9 aircraft a month and increase that even further to 10. And that increase isn't needed to deliver the curent backlog alone.



Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
Demand isn't decreasing. The best proof is Airbus planned production increase.

The production increase has nothing to do with demand. It has everything to do with Airbus having an immediate need to push as much cash our of their two productive and profitable airliners in the A330 and the A320. Each extra frame they get out is some cash they get back and goes towards funding the A350 development and putting the A380 disaster behind them.

Airbus increased production the A320 for cash.

They increased production on the A330 for short term cash, A380 compensation and to provide A350 bridge aircraft. The compensation planes and bridge planes are not exactly high demand planes and are low margin products anyway.

It would be intellectually dishonest to say that Airbus increased A330 production because demand was rising.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 15774 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 12):
Absolutely. The freighter isn't launched with selling only 50 aircraft in mind. There's a lot of A300F's that need replacement. MNG was the first A300F that has come out saying it intends to order the A330F, but won't be the last.

and the 767 is a far better A300F replacement. Strangely enough the A330F doesn't even match the efficiency of the 767F. Still the A330F is the best freighter Airbus has ever made, and will do very well.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15718 times:

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 14):
It would be intellectually dishonest to say that Airbus increased A330 production because demand was rising.

Airbus could increase the production of A330s to 20 a month, but if there's no demand for 20 aircraft a month there's no point doing so. No production increase without demand. Someone has got to pay for all those shiny new A330s. And yes demand is rising, for how long remains to be seen, but demand has been rising 3 years in a row now.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 15):
and the 767 is a far better A300F replacement. Strangely enough the A330F doesn't even match the efficiency of the 767F.

I let the airlines be the judge of that. Sure UPS has ordered a batch of 767s, then again they already operate the type and the aircraft is available now and not in 2009. That the A300F is no longer being build and the A330F is only scheduled for 2009 plays in the 767F's advantage, for now.



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User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9097 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15675 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 15):
Strangely enough the A330F doesn't even match the efficiency of the 767F.

Boeing is looking at putting a new wing extensions, cockpit, undercarriage, and flaps to try and compete with the 330F, because the 330F does 25-30% more payload over similar distance for about the same fuel burn. (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8092)



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15648 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 17):
Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 15):
Strangely enough the A330F doesn't even match the efficiency of the 767F.

Boeing is looking at putting a new wing extensions, cockpit, undercarriage, and flaps to try and compete with the 330F, because the 330F does 25-30% more payload over similar distance for about the same fuel burn. (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8092)

No it doesn't. Why do you think UPS ordered the 763F? It basically does the same job as the 332F and it's purchase price and operating costs are similar. Could say the same for DHL. I'm afraid the 332F is another niche aircraft from Airbus that won't sell 100 units.


User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15615 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 17):
Boeing is looking at putting a new wing extensions, cockpit, undercarriage, and flaps to try and compete with the 330F, because the 330F does 25-30% more payload over similar distance for about the same fuel burn. (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8092)

Luckily for Boeing, they're trying to sell to the one customer in the world for whom fuel expenses are a rounding error.  Wink



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9097 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15528 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
Why do you think UPS ordered the 763F?

IMHO because UPS got a very special price so Boeing could keep the 767 line open awaiting the decision of the tanker contract and you cannot get your hands on a A330 as they are very popular at the moment.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
It basically does the same job as the 332F and it's purchase price and operating costs are similar.

Yes the 330F and 763F operating costs are similar, but the 763F has 25 to 30% less payload uplift, the 763F will carry about 54t over a similar distance the 330F will carry 69t.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
Could say the same for DHL. I'm afraid the 332F is another niche aircraft from Airbus that won't sell 100 units.

I beg to differ, I think it will be a very popular aircraft which could see several hundred in service (both new an converted) it will carry about the same as 2x757s or a DC10, with an operating cost of 70% less than 2x757Fs or 60% of a DC10F.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15482 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 20):
Yes the 330F and 763F operating costs are similar, but the 763F has 25 to 30% less payload uplift, the 763F will carry about 54t over a similar distance the 330F will carry 69t.

Umm which 330F is that?The long ranged lower capacity one or the short ranged higher capacity one?
For UPS I can assure you the 763F will do 95% of what the 330F will do. That's in their hands. The 3 major parcel carriers(FedEx, UPS, DHL) don't like the 330F and won't order it.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 20):
Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
Could say the same for DHL. I'm afraid the 332F is another niche aircraft from Airbus that won't sell 100 units.

I beg to differ, I think it will be a very popular aircraft which could see several hundred in service (both new an converted) it will carry about the same as 2x757s or a DC10, with an operating cost of 70% less than 2x757Fs or 60% of a DC10F.

Excellent. Let's se who is going to be right. One thing is sure and that is Airbus have a helluva lot of work to do to gain significant market share in the WB freighter segment. BTW, is there much talk of A330 conversion programs, because I think that could be more popular than new 330Fs?


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9097 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15423 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 21):
Umm which 330F is that?The long ranged lower capacity one or the short ranged higher capacity one?

Only one type of 330F, it has a range payload graph like any other aircraft.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 21):
For UPS I can assure you the 763F will do 95% of what the 330F will do.

The 330F can carry 69t, a 763F cannot carry 65.6t (thats 95%), it has a max structural payload of about 54t (depending on engines it is 54-54.9t) which is less than 80%, people also tell me that due to the narrow fuselage it needs specially contoured pallets.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 21):
The 3 major parcel carriers(FedEx, UPS, DHL) don't like the 330F and won't order it.

Well I know your wrong on at least one count there, I suspect they will also replace the DC10Fs.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 21):
BTW, is there much talk of A330 conversion programs, because I think that could be more popular than new 330Fs?

Yes, a lot, it will be very popular, just like the 744BCF is very popular, I think new build A330Fs will be available on the market before 330 pax models are available for conversion.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15271 times:

If the A330F is so much better than the 767F, then why is the Airplane they compare it to for all thier marketing... the A300F? None of their "omg our plane is the bestest evar!" marketing numbers make sense till you drag out the A300, then the math starts to work amazingly well.

Lets look into your other "facts"

Quoting Zeke (Reply 20):
Yes the 330F and 763F operating costs are similar, but the 763F has 25 to 30% less payload uplift, the 763F will carry about 54t over a similar distance the 330F will carry 69t.

According to Airbus with the "payload" option instead of "range" you get 76.4 tons of payload (2000lbs per ton)
The 767F for virtually the same range (130nm less), carries 63.7 tons, using 50 tons less MTOW. So for that extra 12.7 tons of cargo it hauls around another 37.3 tons of fuel and plane. It appears from the data that 11.5 tons of that is extra fuel, and 25.8 tons of extra structure.

This is assuming you believe Airbus's website on the payload version, since according to their spec sheet on the same web page the MZFW leaves you with only 70.9tons or the same as the range version. Might be an oversight, who knows.

Oh and thanks to a 41ft shorter wingspan, its quite possible to find places the 767 can go that the A330 can't. With the winglet program either aftermarket or the ones you say Boeing is looking into, that advantage will diminish, but the fuel burn will drop by a good bit according to the current press on the aftermarket winglet program.

Last strangely enough, the 767F according to the data has the same cargo volume as the A330F, so even that isn't an advantage.

*disclaimer, all data gathered on Airbus and Boeing websites respectively. Any errors in the numbers above blame them even if it was my calculation or copying error... heh.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15249 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 22):
Only one type of 330F, it has a range payload graph like any other aircraft.

NOT according to Airbus. According to Airbus they are distinct models and require "conversion" between the two. What that really means I don't know. Might be just piles of paperwork, might be actual hardware changes. Clearly as in my last post the MZFW Airbus has for the A330F on their website does NOT allow for a payload higher than the "range" version.


25 Post contains images WINGS : I think that 2007 may prove differently. After 2008 the A330 sales will gradually die down. Ohh why is it that some people always forget that Airbus
26 Art : In increasing production rate slightly (you can't get a much smaller ramp up than 1 extra frame per month), I guess that Airbus is trying to squeeze
27 Gkirk : Lookng at the figures, I would say that 2006 was the peak year. Yes the A330 will still win orders, but how many they will get, is anyones guess.
28 EI321 : Because they were cheap, already in their fleet and readily available.
29 Curmudgeon : While I think that the A330 is a very fine aircraft indeed, and the A330F too, remember that flocks of 767 aircraft (and A330 too within five years) a
30 EI321 : The A300-600F has the same cross section (and hense same pallets / containers) as the A330.
31 EI321 : How many did even the A300F sell?
32 Toulouse : And what about the A320???
33 BigJKU : I agree they have a large backlog but the real push to increase production became a necessity after the problems faced by the A380. Prior to that suc
34 WINGS : I would actually classify it as a rather huge backlog. If Airbus was to produce 40 frames per month at this present time they would have production f
35 EI321 : Current market demand for A330s is unprecidented. I know of one recent case where over 30 airlines were looking at the same single second hand aircra
36 Post contains images WINGS : That would be Austrian Airlines disposing of their A332's. Luckily it was Tap Portugal that managed to grab those beauties to expand it's longhaul se
37 EI321 : I wonder would they maybe increase the line to 11/month?
38 2wingtips : Oh sadly I'm serious. How many of the commitments are firm orders??? Rejected outright by the world's 3 largest parcel carriers, you have to wonder w
39 2wingtips : Well have a good read of the Airbus press releases of this aircraft All cock and bull of course, because any plane will fly further with a reduced pa
40 MD80Nut : I'm not surprised the A330 continues to sell well. It's a modern, efficient aircraft that's proven itself in the market. Plus many airlines can't affo
41 Post contains images EI321 : Im gonna have to wave my BS flag at that one
42 Post contains images Dougloid : Among all the red herrings and canards floated at a.net and supported by the Airbus agitprop department this is a huge one. Believe you me, if they d
43 Post contains images KL808 : Sorry Im just laughing over this thread. I'll have to second you on that one. Golly, why are there so many haters. Drew
44 Post contains images WINGS : The A332F variant was launched in January 2007. You sure are quick to predict that all three majors have rejected it only after four months on offer.
45 EI321 : What happened to the apparent order for 30 A332F from Farnborough?
46 DAYflyer : I agree, although the next couple of years could still be good, with the long time we have left before the A-350 takes to the air. The 330 is indeed
47 EI321 : How many operators of new build A300F/310F's are there?
48 Post contains links and images Zeke : Why did Boeing need to upgrade the 763F once the 330F was announced then ? The 763F (5,974 kg) basically had the same capacity as the A300-600F (54,6
49 EI321 : Nice charts Zeke, I was not aware that the A330F is so close to the DC10F.
50 Toulouse : Such a good question, but unfortunately that's a.net for you...
51 EI321 : Any word on a possible A330-300F?
52 Shenzhen : Hmmm... haven't seen much mainteance provided to any airline by Airbus, a little training up front, which is covered in the contract and little spare
53 Post contains links Jdevora : AFAIK the switch can do done on every flight, the best that I can find right now is this Leahy's quote : Intrepid Leasing commits to 20 A330 freighte
54 EI321 : I think theres some confusion, the original post (number 33) refered to the A380 (not A330), to which WINGS suggested a figure of 40 per month but I
55 Shenzhen : Should have known that the A320 or A380 would sneak into an A330 thread. After going back, he was referring to the A320 going to 40 per month. Cheers
56 BigJKU : I agree with most that the A330F will have a decently productive run. The question I would think is largley going to be driven by just how many 767 an
57 Sv11 : The A330-200 is probably the main reason Boeing launched the 787. The 767 is pretty uncompetitive against the A330-200, especially due to the LD-3 car
58 DeltaDC9 : No, from the standpoint of creating a truly superior product, the A-330 is Airbuss' crowning acheivvment, The 320 was simply on par and timed right.
59 Post contains links Zeke : "Boeing has been counting on the tanker deal to help sustain its 767 production line, which has faced slumping sales to airlines. Boeing has said it
60 2wingtips : Thanks, I like to think so.
61 2wingtips : Great charts Zeke, but so what? You have no idea of the intangibles at play here and seem to be talking directly about a FedEx 330F purchase. Do you k
62 XT6Wagon : Its clear that today Boeing can quickly and cheaply upgrade the 767F, and is going to do so anyway for the KC767. I guess Airbus should be ridiculed
63 Post contains images Baroque : Not only the engines, but moving to welded AlLi might lower costs as well as weight. They certainly help me in trying to understand the competing cla
64 Zeke : I didn't say that. We know that Fedex is looking to replace its DC10Fs, 330F is the best answer. There are many A310,A300,DC10 true wide bodies that
65 Post contains links XT6Wagon : MY GOD.... you caught me how could I be so criminally reckless as to divide the weight figures provided by 2000 to get US tons.... OH THE HUMANITY. h
66 Post contains links Zeke : Before you start accusing people of that sort of thing, look at what I have presented in this thread. I have posted both configurations above, includ
67 Tancrede : What I love here is that some think the arrival of the 787 as the same as the coming of the Messiah and that every company around the world will drop
68 Post contains images Jdevora : That looks like a risky bet AFAIK in just a few months on offer it has already 66 commitments. Cheers JD
69 Trex8 : many of those E Asian carriers with large A330 fleets are likely to pick up some A332Fs. Why run a 744F around the Far East stopping mostly empty in s
70 SSTsomeday : I agree that the 330 is one of Airbus's major success stories, shadowed only by the 320. However - I would suggest there are extenuating circumstances
71 NAV20 : Have to wonder which 'reality' you're referring to, Tancrede. The EADS website shows just five A330 orders so far this year; and those were back in J
72 David_itl : Still not learnt that Airbus tends to use Airshows to announce orders?
73 Post contains images NAV20 : So you expect A330 sales to catch up with the 787 in June, David_itl? Care to place a bet?
74 Post contains images Manni : So do I NAV2O, but I'm talking about your reality. It's 6 A330s not 5. Only 1 aircraft more I hear you saying? Well that's 20% more. I do remember yo
75 Ivo : Fedex 43 UPS 53 Air HongKong 8 Galaxy AW 1 Total 105 new build freighters. No new build A310 exist. Ivo
76 EI321 : In any case, all this is purely speculative as the true figure will be higher. We do not know the full extent of how many A330s Airbus has sold in 20
77 Post contains images NAV20 : Good one, Manni! I'm just commenting on assertions like this (from the thread starter):- On the basis of only five orders (OK, SIX if you say so ), t
78 Scbriml : There would be something very wrong with the 787 if it weren't. However, despite your usual "upbeat" message when it comes to anything Airbus, the A3
79 BigJKU : More than that I will be interested to see how many A330 orders are not tied to A350 orders or A380 compensation. The A330 is a great airplane but a
80 Post contains images Manni : I've often replied to similar insinuations and provided the number of A330s that might have been related to the delayed A380 or even to the delayed A
81 EI321 : I see no reason why Airbus could not sell over 100 A330s this year. There is huge demand for A330s.[Edited 2007-04-29 21:00:57]
82 Post contains images Baroque : Yes, but many of those were sold to airlines that either have the A380 on order or else know someone in another airline that has them on order. And o
83 Post contains links and images Manni : http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...cific_business/view/273334/1/.html Neither do I. I suspect that the number of A330s sold will comfortably exce
84 EI321 : Its looking more and more certain than the A330/340 line will be boosted to 10 aircraft per month soon.
85 Post contains images Baroque : Seriously, if half the stories of A330 sales are true, it is difficult to believe that Airbus will be pricing the A330 all that keenly. It would be f
86 Slz396 : Well wouldn't that be marvelous? I mean, the A330 is going to be produced in bigger numbers than the 787 for many years to come already and given the
87 EI321 : Good question. If they were to sell 200* A330s this year then 10 aircraft per month may be a bit low. *Figures: There are approx 70 orders + commitme
88 SSTsomeday : Further to my previous post, if the 330 is experiencing a resurgence of orders, I wonder how much of that is due to the sustained spike in fuel prices
89 KL808 : In some ways I don't think Airbus is worried. I only say this if where talking about the -300 series of the A340. Since they share the same line, I t
90 Post contains images Manni : An A332 order is a 767-400 order that never happened, a A333 is a 772 order that never happened (recently Air Asia and Thai have choosen the A333 ove
91 EI321 : The A340-300 & A343-300 were developed at the same time. The A330-200 was developed to replace the A340-200 at a cost of $450m. The A340-500 & A340-6
92 Post contains links and images Jdevora : Looks like I didn't know From the Annual General meeting, page 14 it is just 55 Cheers JD
93 Art : ??? Sounds wrong to me. So? I don't think it matters too much to Airbus whether they stick a wing with 2 engines on the fuselage or a wing with 4.
94 XT6Wagon : Well, I can see it being true if only in the way that they barely have enough time to make "year" plural. Starting today they might barely have a cou
95 WingedMigrator : Airbus's own data show that MTOW-MZFW for the A332F in payload mode is 49.9 metric tons. Boeing's own data show that MTOW-MZFW for the 763F is 44.9 m
96 XT6Wagon : Ah, I see they put in the Payload numbers that I didn't have before, and thus the reduction in MTOW makes the numbers different. Which I am going to
97 Post contains images PEET7G : I have learned to shut up and wait when it comes to prognosing orders I do not think that anyone can predict which way the 330 orders will go, there a
98 SSTsomeday : In a perfect world, I agree with you. But since the sustained fuel price hike, which was unanticipated when the 330 and 340 first were designed and e
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