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Top Skybus Walk Up Fare - $330 - One Way  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7310 times:
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/25/bu...y.html?_r=1&ref=travel&oref=slogin

Skybus’s top walk-up fare will be $330 one way, before taxes. But it has many very low fares — $40, $50, $75 — one way, before taxes.

What is WNs top walk up fare, one way? $299?

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMnevans From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7283 times:

That's the most that I've ever seen. I think this fare structure might have caught a few people on a.net off guard. I know it got me! I think their success may be a little more imminent now that they aren't selling every ticket at 10 bucks and trying to make money back by peddling street-vendor stuff in your face the whole time. As its been said before, this is going to be the Wally World of airlines, it achieves its goal: transportation. How they get there... you may be better off not knowing.

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4260 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7232 times:

Quoting Mnevans (Reply 1):
I think their success may be a little more imminent now that they aren't selling every ticket at 10 bucks and trying to make money back by peddling street-vendor stuff in your face the whole time.

Not so fast there, dude. If Skybus is going to be charging more 'realistic' fares, which I think it has to do, why would people want to fly them? If their website is anything to go by, they are truly the Greyhound of the skies (edit: at least the bus company lets you put bags below without charging extra). If their fares are in similar ranges to that of WN, FL, B6, etc. - not to mention all the legacy majors that will surely have reduced fares in their markets - why would anybody actually want to fly them?

I have my doubts about their business model but I'd be happy if they proved me wrong. I'm just not sure that American tastes are ready to support a Ryanair/Greyhound airline when there are still some serious questions about its operations.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7125 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 2):
Not so fast there, dude. If Skybus is going to be charging more 'realistic' fares, which I think it has to do, why would people want to fly them? If their website is anything to go by, they are truly the Greyhound of the skies (edit: at least the bus company lets you put bags below without charging extra). If their fares are in similar ranges to that of WN, FL, B6, etc. - not to mention all the legacy majors that will surely have reduced fares in their markets - why would anybody actually want to fly them?

Your point is well taken - who would want this experience at this price? I actually think people will put up with it for the right price. But my guess is that demand drops off starting at $50 each way. My problem with their model has a lot more to do with CMH as the focus of their (strictly O&D) operations than with the lack of amenities. However, as the price goes up, people will start to grow weary of the experience pretty quickly.

I think this may be a fare that they end up extracting from people who try to book connections through CMH and are stranded because of delays or other people who need to change their reservation for some reason. It will undoubtedly be the last time the people in question fly Skybus.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7043 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 2):
Quoting Mnevans (Reply 1):
I think their success may be a little more imminent now that they aren't selling every ticket at 10 bucks and trying to make money back by peddling street-vendor stuff in your face the whole time.

Not so fast there, dude. If Skybus is going to be charging more 'realistic' fares, which I think it has to do, why would people want to fly them? If their website is anything to go by, they are truly the Greyhound of the skies (edit: at least the bus company lets you put bags below without charging extra). If their fares are in similar ranges to that of WN, FL, B6, etc. - not to mention all the legacy majors that will surely have reduced fares in their markets - why would anybody actually want to fly them?

That is the "Catch 22" of their "business plan". What most people miss in their comparison of Skybust to Ryanair is that Ryanair was the first to do LCC in Europe and has many routes that actually go to and from places people want to go.
Skybus is trying to get started in a already developed market, and does not have any routes people would want to use. If their plan is to have people buy two tickets and change in CMH, that will not work when people realize that they have to spend the night at CMH because of the route structure.


User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6985 times:

I would really love to meet the sucker who would pay $660 r/t for Greyhound Air...I mean Skybus. You couldn't catch me on that "airline" for $10 o/w...let alone $330!!!


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6902 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
What is WNs top walk up fare, one way? $299?

Currently $339. But the top walk-up fare at WN is refundable and may be changed without a fee -- and you can even talk to a person (in the U.S.) on the phone!

Quoting Richierich (Reply 2):
If Skybus is going to be charging more 'realistic' fares, which I think it has to do, why would people want to fly them?

That's what I don't get, either. Why would anyone pay the fares SkyBus needs to make a profit when they could get a much, much better product for the same price on WN, B6, DL, AA, UA, etc.? Why would a business traveler take SkyBus to PSM to get to Boston if you can get to BOS non-stop on another airline for a reasonable fare?

Quoting Logos (Reply 3):
But my guess is that demand drops off starting at $50 each way.

I think that the "with fares that cheap, what the heck?" demand on shorter-haul routes drops off at $30-50 each way and around $75 on longer-haul routes. But even that sort of demand is going to be limited on days like Tuesday or Wednesday since most adults are at work and even OSU students are hypothetically supposed to be in class.

And as I said in another thread...I would only book those $10 fares on flights which are virtually certain to not oversell. If the flight oversells and they don't get enough volunteers (which they won't, since the maximum compensation for volunteers is a voucher for $100), they will involuntarily deny boarding to the $10 passengers, since the compensation is double the value of the fare; i.e. $20. And with one or two flights a day, you might get to your destination in a few days.


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6867 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 4):
Skybus is trying to get started in a already developed market, and does not have any routes people would want to use. If their plan is to have people buy two tickets and change in CMH, that will not work when people realize that they have to spend the night at CMH because of the route structure.

I understand what you're saying but I have to say, you're partially incorrect in your thinking. When southwest came into PHL, they started immediately flying routes that US was already flying. Just because of their lower fares, The number of Passengers increased almost 200%. and that was PHL-PVD. Skybus will have that ability to serve routes that people want to fly. Nearly 60,000 tickets were sold on the FIRST day alone. If thats the case, they have to be doing something right.

In regards to your route structure point...you are correct, at this time, they would have to stay at night in CMH. But EVEN THEN....a single ticket from PSM to BUR would be 40 dollars round trip, 80 after tax. Spending a night at the Airport Hotel is 60 bucks. $140 Round Trip is still Cheaper.

Currently, on their first day of Operation, on May 22, their aircraft will fly CMH-BUR-CMH-PSM-CMH...So if you're flying from BUR to PSM, its possible to connect in CMH. From PSM to BUR, it is not. However, this will Definately Change once, Skybus has acquired more aircraft. For Example, Starting CMH-PSM-CMH-BUR-CMH on a second aircraft, makes it completely possible to Connect in both Directions. Thru CMH, Not to Mention double capacity to two already demanded Routes.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
Why would a business traveler take SkyBus to PSM to get to Boston if you can get to BOS non-stop on another airline for a reasonable fare?

I'm sorry, but i think it has been discussed many many times already, Skybus is definately NOT targeting the Business Traveling market. No No, i think it's quite obvious they're trying to attract the leisure market.


Give them a Few months and recheck your theory. We'll see what happens.

[Edited 2007-04-27 18:11:45]

User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6798 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
Spending a night at the Airport Hotel is 60 bucks.

the cheapest airport hotel is 109 dollars a night after tax, and if you don't want to get something that scares penicillan it's 174.00 a night right at the airport. (Unless you can get a cheap room through hotels.com or something)


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6770 times:

Sorry about my ignorance, but what US carrier is compared to Ryanair/Easyjet?

Thx

Micke//  Confused



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
Currently, on their first day of Operation, on May 22, their aircraft will fly CMH-BUR-CMH-PSM-CMH...So if you're flying from BUR to PSM, its possible to connect in CMH. From PSM to BUR, it is not. However, this will Definately Change once, Skybus has acquired more aircraft. For Example, Starting CMH-PSM-CMH-BUR-CMH on a second aircraft, makes it completely possible to Connect in both Directions. Thru CMH, Not to Mention double capacity to two already demanded Routes.

You would have a valid point IF you could fly on the same aircraft all the way through. However, you have TWO tickets. You go to CMH get off, collect your bags and check back in. How long will that take? A hour? Probably more. By then the airplane will be long gone.

Skybus really needs to think about this P2P only idea. It will not work. They need to sell through tickets where the airplane lands in CMH and you and your bags stay on board.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 8):
the cheapest airport hotel is 109 dollars a night after tax, and if you don't want to get something that scares penicillan it's 174.00 a night right at the airport. (Unless you can get a cheap room through hotels.com or something)

While you can try to sleep in the airport lobby, I doubt that the authorities would permit it. And I somehow suspect all the hotels local to th CMH will quicky up their prices once they realize what is going on.


User currently offlineXJETFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6698 times:

Skybus is nuts in my opinion. I do not fly Southwest, but I would choose them any day over Skybus. I think Skybus is not making a good start. For the average joe who is looking for the cheapest flight, I guess they will love it. But tell that same average joe the cost is going up and he will look elsewhere to find a cheaper deal. Also if a person can barely afford this airline or if they are just plain cheap, they are the ones who want to bring their own food in most cases. I don't see them paying for high dollar crap meals on this airliner.

This plan has disaster written all over it if you ask me. I know there are many who look for good deals, hell most of us do.
But this airliner is coming across as sneeky to me. For the defenders of this airliner, enjoy the $10 seats. I will stick with the airliners I trust.

Don't get me wrong, I want Skybus to make it. The more airliners the better deals for everyone!


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6683 times:

$399 one way? For what? It's not like you're getting anything in return on Skybus other than the convenience of getting to your destination in a few hours. At least if you pay $399 on Southwest you'll get good seat pitch, snacks, and friendly service.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
Currently $339. But the top walk-up fare at WN is refundable and may be changed without a fee -- and you can even talk to a person (in the U.S.) on the phone!

And check bags, and get free sodas and snacks, and on most routes there are plenty of flights in case one is overbooked/canceled. Good luck on Skybus if they bump you. Who you gonna call?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6625 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
I understand what you're saying but I have to say, you're partially incorrect in your thinking. When southwest came into PHL, they started immediately flying routes that US was already flying. Just because of their lower fares, The number of Passengers increased almost 200%. and that was PHL-PVD. Skybus will have that ability to serve routes that people want to fly. Nearly 60,000 tickets were sold on the FIRST day alone. If thats the case, they have to be doing something right.

That's assuming that their only objective was to get people to try them once. You're also missing WN's timing in coming to PHL in that US was taking forever to get luggage to baggage claim and there was some real desire for an alternative. That (along with lower fares) is enough to get people to try you and stimulate demand.

However, you have to provide something of value over time to retain those passengers. Southwest consistently ranks at or near the top for passenger satisfaction for some good reasons - frequent flights, good seat pitch, friendly, consistent service - to go along with low fares. Among those advantages, Skybus has only one - low fares. The experience itself will take some real getting used to and I'll bet that many will try them once and never again, especially if the fare for the second flight is on the order of $75 (or more) instead of $10. When people start missing their cobbled together connections and having to pay outrageous fares for the rebooking, you're going to see a lot of "never again".

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6603 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 9):
Sorry about my ignorance, but what US carrier is compared to Ryanair/Easyjet?

Skybus is really the first US LCC that is built along the Ryanair/Easyjet model - no free drinks or snacks at all, only one free bag, a certain number of seats offered for next to nothing, no call center, etc.

Some other US LCCs have adopted certain aspects of the Ryanair model - Spirit's pretty much there, except it uses primary airports. Allegiant uses some secondary airports* and doesn't offer free beverages or snacks.

But Skybus is the first attempt to build a Ryanair-like "ultra-LCC" in the US from the ground up.

[Edited 2007-04-27 19:43:26]

User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6590 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
Why would a business traveler take SkyBus to PSM to get to Boston if you can get to BOS non-stop on another airline for a reasonable fare?

I'm sorry, but i think it has been discussed many many times already, Skybus is definately NOT targeting the Business Traveling market. No No, i think it's quite obvious they're trying to attract the leisure market.

Well, there is no question that Skybus is not chasing the business traveller. But who are they chasing? They are very negative about children, particularly babies. So that wipes out the family-going-to-Grandma's for the holiday, and the family-on-vacation market.

Then there is the hungry-student and backpacker markets. Okay, maybe them. They like to rough it and stay in stables-converted-to-hostels then tell their friends all about their "adventures".

How about the middle class Joe needing to go somewhere on his own money? Well, perhaps, but only if the price is right and if he doesn't have to sleep over in CMH. Most of this market will put a value on the comfort issues, as noted in several other posts.

That is what bothers me. Just who are they trying to attract?


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
When southwest came into PHL, they started immediately flying routes that US was already flying. Just because of their lower fares, The number of Passengers increased almost 200%. and that was PHL-PVD. Skybus will have that ability to serve routes that people want to fly. Nearly 60,000 tickets were sold on the FIRST day alone. If thats the case, they have to be doing something right.

Let's compare apples to apples here, though. WN started service at PHL in May of 2004. Let's compare PHL-PVD fares and traffic from 3Q2004 to 3Q2003 (since 3Q2004 was the first full quarter of WN competing on PHL-PVD). Average one-way fares fell from $328 to $57, and traffic increased from 9,190 to 100,550 passengers for the quarter -- an increase of 994%. The trip distance is 238 miles, so average one-way fares fell from $1.38/mile to $0.24/mile.

CMH-LAX in 3Q2006 averaged $221 each way, and Delta was a bit lower at $202 with their non-stop flight in the market. Dropping the average fare to, say, $99 (which is probably what SkyBus would need to break even) wouldn't have the same dramatic effect as reducing average fares by 83%, which is what happened between PHL and PVD. Amtrak, Greyhound, or driving are all reasonable options between PHL and PVD if fares are high. They're not especially appealing between Columbus and Los Angeles, especially with absolute fare levels on CMH-LAX actually being lower then PHL-PVD fare levels had been. Similarly, CMH-FLL average fares were already quite reasonable at $164 each way.

I understand that 60,000 tickets were sold by SkyBus on its first day. What was the average fare paid? The measure of Skybus's success is not going to be how many $10 tickets they can sell from CMH to BLI or BUR or PSM, but how many $100+ tickets they can sell.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
But EVEN THEN....a single ticket from PSM to BUR would be 40 dollars round trip, 80 after tax. Spending a night at the Airport Hotel is 60 bucks. $140 Round Trip is still Cheaper.

But EVEN THEN... you're talking about fares that don't make money for the company. I don't doubt that they can find at least 10 people to buy $10 tickets on every flight. How many people will Skybus find that will pay fares that are profitable for them?

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
Skybus is definately NOT targeting the Business Traveling market. No No, i think it's quite obvious they're trying to attract the leisure market.

The leisure market alone won't pay the bills unless you're talking about LAS, MCO, TPA, CUN, etc. How many people really want to fly CMH-BLI for fun?!


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4260 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 16):
That is what bothers me. Just who are they trying to attract?

I think you've about covered it. It's the million dollar question - are there enough bargain-hungry people out there who are willing to put up with this airline's apparent drawbacks in order to save some cash? And can the airline survive by selling only sub-$100 tickets?

I don't have these answers, of course. I will say, though, that the comparisons to Greyhound are not completely without merit. I once travelled 1,000 miles on Greyhound with a friend - wow, what a trip. You don't get anything for your money besides a seat. So that means that every breakfast, lunch and dinner stop was, naturally, on your own dime. I recall making stops in Staunton and Lexington, VA, in the middle of the night, and yet people got on and off the bus. The bus was always fairly full, and one gal seated next to us was going to the far side of Texas, an extra 800 miles! Why didn't these people fly, because the difference in cost was negligble when you consider food and time (for sure)? The only answer I could circle back to was because the initial cost of the ticket was so much cheaper, especially in those days prior to WN's LCC nationwide dominance.

So, to answer the question of "who", I point squarely at the Greyhound passenger, the typical Waffle House patron and other cliches, to say that there is always somebody willing to go out of their way to save some money, no matter how silly it or nonsensical it may seem to others. I really have no idea what that means for Skybus' future though, especially because again I think people will look to other, more reputable, carriers for just a few bucks more.

Without over-glamorizing Skybus, I think we are really on the brink of some fundamental changes to flying here in the US. Either the "charge for everything" approach will takeoff and Skybus will become a formidable airline or they will one day be seen as a major-league failure for not understanding their market's desires.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
But EVEN THEN... you're talking about fares that don't make money for the company. I don't doubt that they can find at least 10 people to buy $10 tickets on every flight. How many people will Skybus find that will pay fares that are profitable for them?

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
Skybus is definately NOT targeting the Business Traveling market. No No, i think it's quite obvious they're trying to attract the leisure market.

The leisure market alone won't pay the bills unless you're talking about LAS, MCO, TPA, CUN, etc. How many people really want to fly CMH-BLI for fun?!

Great post, overall but these portions are especially well said. I don't care if they've attracted $160 million of start up - the part of this you can see so far simply doesn't add up. Every time someone responds "no, no you don't understand" it seems greater "understanding" only raises more questions. Examples -

"CMH is not a hub! They're not looking for connecting traffic!" - granted they're making it as difficult as they can to connect through CMH, but this model makes no sense simply on CHM O&D and that is not how Ryanair turned a profit. The lack of strong O&D (like London) is the sense in which they're straying from the Ryanair/Easyjet model.

"They're not going after business travelers" - clearly, but you can't pay the bills on leisure traffic

"They'll be other cities than CMH" - that could be, but they're choosing to start in CMH, for one thing, which conveys some importance in their future route system. Beyond that, name another city where they might go that has the O&D numbers and lack of low cost competition to work ala Ryanair/Easyjet. I sure can't.

The fallback on "it worked for Ryanair and no one said it would" and "these investors aren't dummies", etc. doesn't really answer these basic issues. As mentioned above quite eloquently, 60,000 tickets doesn't mean squat if they've got a marginal loss on most of them. I guarantee you I could sell a whole bunch of steak dinners for $1.99, but I couldn't make any money at it.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

I again will say that the length of time this venture survives (the end of this year, a year from now, a couple of years) will hinge on the future moves they take in route development. The way it is now, and I'm sure most would agree, they might see Christmas of this year, or they might not.

Especially if they want to survive the winter, they are going to need warm-weather destinations galore. (Next January, people in CMH are not going to jump up one morning and say, "I think I'll run to the Port, buy one of them $10 fares, and run off to Bellingham for the weekend!" And I don't think the people in BLI will say the same about running off to CMH either.) Skybus not only needs fun-n-sun destinations, they need focus cities there (a la Allegiant Air) AND they need connecting service in place. (If they don't happen to fly BLI to SAN, PHX or FLL, they need customers to be able to connect in order to get there.) P2P is wonderful but you must have connecting opportunities as well (read: WN business model.)

The P2P model they apparently will be pursuing is a fine idea (IMHO, the new direction air transport is headed in) BUT it takes time and lots of resources to develop it in this big country. Remember RyanAir is dealing with a lower average stage length and has been around for a while now developing their route structure. Skybus is going to try and do this starting in a very rough economic period amid lots of reactive competition (should they survive long enough.)

For even a chance of surviving the non-peak (summer) travel period, I expect SkyBus will need cities (attractive destinations) such as SAN, PHX, ABQ, HOU, MSY, MCO, (or similar, in addition to BUR and FLL they already serve) plus a few ski destinations like RNO, SLC and DEN, with P2P to their existing "cold weather" cities, plus lots more, and substantial frequency. I think they have too far to go in too short a time and I don't think the investment capital will last long enough for it to happen.

I reiterate the point made by MANY before: the target people of SkyBus will try this idea once and (maybe) again as long as the sub-$75 fares are available. Above that, don't count on it and there is no way anyone will pay ~$300 for a ticket on a skyBUS!

bb


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6355 times:

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 15):
only one free bag

Actually, no free checked baggage on SkyBus. The first and second bags cost $5 each, and after that, $50.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineEugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6343 times:

People who knock skybus do not get it. They think that because we pay premiums for fancy cars, clothes and gadget people will do the same for air transport. In reality people pay a lot more then they need for cars, clothes and gadgets for vanity purposes.

Air travel has no scope for vanity - it is just getting from A to B for the overwhelming majority of non business travellors. So if one airline can do it for a few bucks cheaper then people are going to flock to it - look at Ryanair.

Air travel for most is a commodity like oil, wheat and gas - broadly speaking all the airlines offer the same product so price will the most important factor! This is in contrast to cars and clothes where "coolness" and status and sex matter so much that people have to spend far more on cars then they need to.

I think Skybus will do very well and I wish them all the best.


User currently offlineTbolt1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6274 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
The leisure market alone won't pay the bills unless you're talking about LAS, MCO, TPA, CUN, etc. How many people really want to fly CMH-BLI for fun?!

Actually, I would. Looking at google.com maps the drive from BLI to Seattle looks awesome, following the coast the whole way down....I'm sure it's a beautiful drive. I'd like to go just to go whale watching in the summer.



"You can be my wingman anytime."
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6269 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Actually, I would. Looking at google.com maps the drive from BLI to Seattle looks awesome, following the coast the whole way down....I'm sure it's a beautiful drive. I'd like to go just to go whale watching in the summer.

Come on dude. Did you actually look at said map? No water anywhere near I5, unless you count 3 minutes of Lake Samish south of Bellingham and some stinky ass sloughs north of Everett.


25 Tbolt1 : Oh, my mistake dude....the water is a whopping 5 miles to the west.....geez, whatever will I do.....what, with a rented car and all.....heaven forbid
26 ScottB : Looks like a long drive on the interstate a few miles from the coast to me, actually. Leaving Seattle at 0500 or 0530 to ensure enough time to make a
27 Clickhappy : just telling you how it really is, ace.
28 ADent : I agree with Eugdog - if anyone wanted to fly to/from CMH. They could have everything else right, but doesn't seem like enough O&D traffic there to su
29 Richierich : Sounds great - now will you really do it? Are other people really likely to do it???
30 Tbolt1 : Don't know. One of the mistakes I see Skybus doing right now though especially since they're flying into secondary airports, is the web site doesn't
31 Richierich : I hear you and agree with your ideas. However, I don't think BLI alone is enough of a market, honestly. To get passengers, they need to promote how e
32 MeanGreen : BLI into Seattle is going to be a crappy drive. My grandparents live out Whidbey and sometimes the drive into Seattle can take 2 hours deppending on w
33 Luv2fly : People not knowing will try it once and that will be it, no repeats that I can see happening.
34 LAXspotter1985 : I recently purchased round trip airfare from Burbank to Ft. Lauderdale on Skybus and I realized the service and no connecting times were not good enou
35 MAH4546 : It is fun to watch people talk about Skybus as if they are going to be around after 12 months.
36 Post contains images SW733 : Got to agree with you 110% on that one.
37 Mke717spotter : I thought that it said somewhere on Skybus' website they don't give refunds?
38 Logos : They're giving them until they get their certificate. All money for reservations is being placed in an escrow account pending receipt of the certific
39 FCYTravis : Well, but no, $kybu$ doesn't offer the same product, or anywhere near it. I think a lot of people underestimate just how uncomfortable a 28-inch seat
40 JetBlueAUS : I've seen WN, $410.00 O/W.
41 Tbolt1 : I've got a question.......if Skybus wasn't supposed to be going head-to-head with Southwest, but yet they're willing to fly to Burbank which is where
42 MAH4546 : Lower costs. Seattle and Boston are very expensive airports to fly to. Seattle is one of the most expensive airports to fly to in the entire United S
43 ConcordeBoy : ...I haven't really been keeping up: is Kennedy still slot-restricted during the evening Euro-rush, or (taking the "new" taxi, takeoff procedures int
44 Tbolt1 : Right, I understand the lower cost aspect, but isn't their BFI in Seattle? What's wrong with that airport? Also, why wouldn't Skybus elect to also fl
45 Alangirvan : These are the starting routes for Skybus. I do not think connections will be an issue for Skybus passengers, because if the traffic is there Skybus wi
46 Easyas321 : as long as they have fare levels at resonable increments they do well. It's only when 1 fare sells out & there's a big jump to next fare that airlines
47 UA772IAD : I don't think so. The people who go out of their way to avoid paying more than they have to (or avoid the traditional hassles of air travel) either:
48 ADiZzy : How is it that ScareBus is going to beable to start service here in the state's....yet Virgin America was given the halt??? Also, I think it is wrong
49 CIDflyer : I totally agree, I'd be more optimistic about their chances if they would allow connections. The people from RIC, GSO, and MCI basically connect to n
50 BlueElephant : It is a very fundamental flaw in their network. I think that once they have more aircraft, They'll be able to accomodate more possible connections, a
51 Poitin : Let's see 65 319's on order, 8 delivered. $160 Million in the bank. Hum!! Wonder what happens is they don't get a positive cash flow real quick? They
52 Tbolt1 : There have not been 8 aircraft delivered.....wherever you read that is wrong.
53 Mke717spotter : Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the first 8 aircraft will be leased right?
54 Post contains links ExFATboy : The terminal - while very nice, is tiny, and just not set up to handle larger jets at this point. I believe Kenmore Air's Caravans are the only sched
55 Logos : I can appreciate that, Tbolt1. I also appreciate your acknowledging some of the problems. I've had some critical things to say about Skybus' plan but
56 Srbmod : Some would argue that Southwest is the "Wal-Mart" of airlines. Skybus may be more along the lines of the "Big Lots/Dollar General/Family Dollar" of a
57 UnknownUser : Bull... From where to where?
58 Post contains links Poitin : I believe we are all correct. Skybus has some 65 planes on order with Airbus. These are a firm order, so a deposit on each, even if just one Euro, ha
59 Luv2fly : I think this is probably the best analogy!
60 Chris133 : I would have to agree with that one. Even with a 33" pitch there is not much room (especially when the person in front lays all the way back) and i'm
61 Floridaflyboy : I think Southwest would have a fit if Skybus were allowed to fly into BFI. Southwest was told flat out a few years ago that they could not. I can't s
62 Post contains links ExFATboy : If BFI is classified a commercial field and there is gate space available (and my understanding of the law is correct), King County cannot legally te
63 Clickhappy : Reality would tell you there is no parking room at BFI, nor public transit.
64 Tbolt1 : I believe you are correct....the first factory aircraft don't get delivered until 2008.
65 Floridaflyboy : I am well aware of the law. Basically, I'm saying that, like you said, if the city of Seattle really wants to keep Skybus out of there, they will hav
66 Srbmod : Like in many parts of the country, the NIMBY factor would scuttle any attempt by Skybus or any other airline from starting service out of BFI. There h
67 Flybulldog : The people who say that CMH isn't a viable O/D destination need to look at a map. There's a sizeable population base that lives in driving distance of
68 Tbolt1 : Columbus is #15 in terms of population in this country...I don't think that's anything to sneeze at considering how big this country is and how many
69 Clickhappy : Sure, CMH sounds like a hell of a place. With little to no value for some one on vacation, esp. in the winter. As a business market CMH sounds like a
70 Tbolt1 : That was in the first 3 days of ticket sales. I thought that was good for the first 3 days, am I wrong?
71 Srbmod : It just lives in the shadows of Cleveland and Cincinnati, even though the City of Columbus has a greater population than the Cities of Cleveland and
72 Tbolt1 : You ever been to Cleveland? All I can say is, "eeewwww" Lived there for 2 years....never again if I can help it.
73 ATLAaron : When should we expect additional destinations to be announced? I agree with the posts above that if you are looking for O&D traffic from CMH, think Fl
74 Poitin : Ryanair can make money on 60% load factors, but just barely. However, they go places people want to go and make a reasonable revenue. If SKB is claim
75 N587NK : and what 10 seats per flight will be sold at that price?? not the entire aircraft. I guess their marketing department takes after NK. I'm almost 100%
76 Poitin : I am sure you are correct, I was just pointing out that you have to enough revenue to pay for the costs. With Jet A fuel wholesaling at about $2.50 a
77 Tbolt1 : In about 3 weeks supposedly.
78 Tbolt1 : I think SX is just covering their butt with every possible scenario that people will try to pull when trying to board their aircraft. Some of their r
79 ATLAaron : That doesn't make any sense, but no you would go from CMH-FLL for a summer vacation.
80 MasseyBrown : Ohio actually has a very pleasant summer, better than Florida's. The winter is another story.
81 Clickhappy : Gave this so more thought. Most airlines top fare price is refundable, correct? But none of SXs fares are? I can understand a $10 fare being nonrefuna
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