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A330 Bargain Offer Made To EK-Flight International  
User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10885 times:

Page 4 of the May 1 issue.

Up to 60 A333s have been offered to EK with deliveries from 2009. Tim Clark denies anything has been signed after EK's recent A350XWB fact finding mission to Toulouse. Clark said EK will be visiting Boeing for a 787 update in May. Interestingly, Clark says"while the A350 has the makings of a fine machine, he is disappointed it is so much later than the 787".
The article also goes on to say that" Airbus has been offering A330s at exteemely competitive prices in an effort to stem the flow of business to it's rival".

Sounds like EK are still very much undecided on 787 v 350 .

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10866 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
Sounds like EK are still very much undecided on 787 v 350 .

I could see them going both 350 and 787, with the larger 350s for larger routes, and the 787 for A330 routes..........



"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10796 times:

60 A333s! Will the production ramp up of 9 A330s per month be enough? Air Asia Express is contemplating an order for 10 more, just after signing for 10/5. Perhaps this will be the year of the A330?


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9997 posts, RR: 96
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10634 times:
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Quoting Flyorski (Reply 1):
60 A333s! Will the production ramp up of 9 A330s per month be enough? Air Asia Express is contemplating an order for 10 more, just after signing for 10/5. Perhaps this will be the year of the A330?

There could be an equally "difficult" scenario for Airbus and the A330 IMO, which might explain some of the mixed messages and posturing going on.

EK want 60 x A330's.
Other Airlines are bound to order some as the normal course of business
There is speculation about 60-70 commitments for A330F
and....
In 2wingtip's other thread, there's a strong flavour that QR might be looknig for BIG numbers of A330's to cover interim lift.

EK and QR, like SQ and QF, will want their frames in the next couple of years.
There's already a fairly large backlog to contend with anyway..

I wonder if Airbus are in a difficult juggling position of facing the prospect of having to agree to an insurmountable number of A330's, specifically in the next 2-3 years (i.e. in short-enough lead time to make a massive ramp-up logistically impossible), in order to secure 80 off QR A350's and 100 off EK A350's.

Those are big orders to turn your back on jusr because you can't ramp the A330 up in good time.
I speculate there's some immense A330 juggling going on at Airbus just now...
"60-70 A330F's, was it? Any chance you could wait a year or 2?"  Smile

Regards


User currently offlineA380Heavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10466 times:

One thing that strikes me is that even after all this time the A330 seems to be a very desirable aircraft to have in an airline fleet.

I know that it has been discussed numerous times on here but you can't help feeling that a warmed over A330 with latest generation engines and other minor tweaks may have sold really quite well - probably better than the A330 in its current guise, until something like the A350 XWB came on line.

Ok so it wouldn't have been the perfect answer to the 787, but it may have prevented at least some of the orders from going Stateside.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - shame it always arrives late!!!  Smile

Just my 2 penneth!!



Flown in:732,733,734,738,742,752,763,772,F27,DC9,MD-11,A300,A332,ATR72,DHC-6,Bell206,C172,Auster,PA-28
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30859 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10303 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 3):
Those are big orders to turn your back on jusr because you can't ramp the A330 up in good time. I speculate there's some immense A330 juggling going on at Airbus just now... "60-70 A330F's, was it? Any chance you could wait a year or 2?"

Especially with the wild-card of Boeing possibly increasing 787 production in 2010 by dozens - or even scores - of units per annum which would then allow Boeing to provide both with 787s...


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10241 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
Clark said EK will be visiting Boeing for a 787 update in May.

Hmmmm....could we see an order at Paris (or before) for 15 additional A380s along with this massive number of A330s, but no A350/787 decision? I would have thought that this staggering number of A333s (if this is true, of course!) would have been tied into an A350 order, but Clark's statement appears to leave some wiggle room--at least for now!



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10087 times:

This Speculation about a future A330s and A380s order by EK , doesn't surprise me , as we are arriving at the end of the A380 compensation talks , between EK and Airbus.
Read in the French newspapers , both parties are very closed to a deal.
This deal according to the same French newspapers is NOT for Airbus to pay cash as compensation , but by large discount prices , meaning an order by EK for different Airbus types is imminent , probably at the Paris Air Show.


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9623 posts, RR: 68
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10081 times:
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PHOTO SCREENER

Sad that Airbus has to give the store away just to try to keep up with Boeing.

Instead of discounting they should have planned better.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9952 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 3):
wonder if Airbus are in a difficult juggling position of facing the prospect of having to agree to an insurmountable number of A330's, specifically in the next 2-3 years (i.e. in short-enough lead time to make a massive ramp-up logistically impossible), in order to secure 80 off QR A350's and 100 off EK A350's.

I think your hunch may well be right, Astuteman. But one has to add in Clark's reference to 'extremely competitive prices.'

Putting my contract-negotiating hat on, I don't see any way that Airbus could secure completely legally-binding orders for the A350XWB at this stage. No-one (not even Airbus) knows whether the promised performance figures can be achieved, because the design process is only just starting; there'll be a 'get out of jail' clause in any contract signed at this stage. And there's no guarantee, either, that Airbus can actually find the E10B. or so required to develop it.

On the face of it, selling aeroplanes now at bargain prices to secure orders for ANOTHER aeroplane that you're going to have to spend E10B. developing, which in any case won't be designed, delivered, and paid for before 2014 at the earliest, is a 'courageous' business strategy at the least. Airbus will be at risk of the A350XWB not meeting specification, or even just being late; in which case the airlines concerned could just cancel the A350 orders at no penalty, and walk away with their 'cost-price' A330s.......

If it were me taking the decisions, it's not a strategy I'd care to adopt. Fair to say, though, that if I actually WERE taking the decisions at Airbus, I don't know what strategy I WOULD adopt. Starting from the frankly dreadful position that the likes of Forgeard, Gallois, and Leahy have got them into.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9874 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 8):
Sad that Airbus has to give the store away just to try to keep up with Boeing.

ROTFL-

You mean like the A330s Airbus 'gave away for free' to THAI?

Judging from the prices some airlines are known to have paid for their A330s some years ago, the price quoted by TG's CEO for the A330s he recently ordered was not really going to ruin Airbus, quite on the contrary even.

As has been said many times already, the A330 is in EXTREMELY HIGH demand right now, so Airbus has a good excuse to explain to customers why they are forced to raise the 'normal price', after which they then give a 'compensation discount', and the customer pays prices which were normal going rates only a few years ago.

Quoting FCKC (Reply 7):
This deal according to the same French newspapers is NOT for Airbus to pay cash as compensation, but by large discount prices meaning an order by EK for different Airbus types is imminent, probably at the Paris Air Show.

Airbus has repeatedly said their preferred method of compensation is through discounts on new orders, which is logic as it means no cash drain for them; it actually secures them extra revenue!

EK on the other hand has always maintained they wanted to be compensated through a deal which would not influence their very important A350XWB/787 decision, so combining the 2 points of view, and judging by the number of hints we have seen posted in the press lately, one can take it for granted EK is indeed likely to settle for a global deal with Airbus in which they'll get a good price and will order the biggest number of A330s ever ordered by a single customer as well as place a significant follow up order for A380s!

The A350XWB could then easily stay out of EKs fleet planning as the A330s EK will order will allow them to postpone any decision on 787s/A350s till both have been in service for some time.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9734 times:

The A330 is the most efficient 300 seater accommodating a lot of cargo when you don´t need more then 5000nm (or a little further) .

I wondered how it compares to the 787-9 /-10 and A350-900. It probably is lighter and available soon instead of from 2013/14..

With 5000nm you can easily cover Europe & Asia (except Parts of Australia). For an airline that has already ordered lots of A332s, A340s, 777´s that isn´t much of a problem and 5000nm range from dxb: >85% of the worlds population. The lower CASM of the A333 is becoming increasingly relevant.

Commonality : I think the A330 is EK´s most popular wide body: 29 A332s, instrumental in their rapid network expansion.

Probably the same sentiments as SQ on 787 & A350XWb : nice aircraft, but what about 2008?

http://sbb.club.fr/wfond.JPG


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30859 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9679 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
I wondered how (the A330) compares to the 787-9 /-10 and A350-900. It probably is lighter and available soon instead of from 2013/14..

From my data, the 787-9 is lighter then both the A330-200 and A330-300. The A350XWB-900 should also be lighter if extrapolated numbers are to be believed.

And with another thread saying Airbus cannot meet QR's desire for a large (multiple scores) A330 order, the A330 might be finding itself as constrained in the near-term as the 787 is.


User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 885 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9618 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
Putting my contract-negotiating hat on, I don't see any way that Airbus could secure completely legally-binding orders for the A350XWB at this stage. No-one (not even Airbus) knows whether the promised performance figures can be achieved, because the design process is only just starting; there'll be a 'get out of jail' clause in any contract signed at this stage. And there's no guarantee, either, that Airbus can actually find the E10B. or so required to develop it.

It seems to me that consistently across the board right now the issue is whether Airbus can deliver the plane on time, not as much the specs (and whether they can offer enough extra lift in the meantime).

cheers.


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9468 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
And with another thread saying Airbus cannot meet QR's desire for a large (multiple scores) A330 order, the A330 might be finding itself as constrained in the near-term as the 787 is.

It's a tough problem...you want to ramp up production, but you don't want to strangle yourself if the demand dries up quickly. Boeing has done this multiple times in the past, and it seems is being very conservative with the 787 and 737 production numbers to prevent history from repeating itself.

Certainly Airbus is smart enough to be concerned about this as well, with the A330 being in a very weird place right now. For the moment, it is a class-beating airplane that everyone would like to have a dozen more of, if they could afford it. The problem is, within 2 years it will be obsolescant, and within 5 years, entirely obsolete (as a new airplane) except for the 330F. Ramping up production too high for an airplane where the writing is clearly on the wall is just asking for labor and management trouble down the road.

Very tough problem, but then again, one I am sure they are very happy to have as compared to the A380/A350XWB problems!



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30859 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9432 times:
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Quoting Lemurs (Reply 14):
It's a tough problem...you want to ramp up production, but you don't want to strangle yourself if the demand dries up quickly...Ramping up production too high for an airplane where the writing is clearly on the wall is just asking for labor and management trouble down the road.

Well Airbus does have the A330F program to keep the line moving once A330 passenger demand declines. This assumes Airbus does not sacrifice the A330F program for a few years to produce passenger A330s as they have done with the A380F.

Where the problem could be is the suppliers. Depending on how much money they need to invest to meet a second production, the RoI might not pencil out without significant A330 or A330F sales in the near term.

Also, Airbus themselves have to be careful how hard they push the A330/A340 production line lest they end up with the snafu that Boeing had on the 737 line in 1997.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9997 posts, RR: 96
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9330 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
No-one (not even Airbus) knows whether the promised performance figures can be achieved, because the design process is only just starting

I've lost count of how many times I've seen this in print.
It's written like Airbus are a bunch of silicon chip manufacturers who've suddenly decided to turn their hand at making an aeroplane.  no 

The notion that the A350XWB specifications being presented to airlines are based on vapour are so ridiculous as to be laughable.
So here I go....

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Airbus have been working on the -XWB for over a year now.  yes 
AND the decision to switch a year ago would have been made by a trade-off vis-a-vis the old A350
You need a life...........

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Well Airbus does have the A330F program to keep the line moving once A330 passenger demand declines.

Is the A330F destined to be put on the same back-burner as the A380F, until a glut of pax orders is dealt with?

Regards


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30859 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9232 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 16):
Is the A330F destined to be put on the same back-burner as the A380F, until a glut of pax orders is dealt with?

If I was Airbus, I would prefer that not to be the case as it opens the market to Boeing's 767F (including the new 767-200FLR) and 777F since it is unlikely in-service passenger A330s will be converted to freighters with demand so high.


User currently offlineAutoThrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9154 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
No-one (not even Airbus) knows whether the promised performance figures can be achieved, because the design process is only just starting;

Strange, if they dont know if the performance figures can achieved how could they achieve the performance figures of the A380 which almost all airlines (which ordered it)confirmed ?Was it luck?:D


Btw i'm in a year the final M8 design freeze will be reached, so if they just started then they are damn fast designing the plane.  Yeah sure



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30859 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9057 times:
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To be fair, does Airbus know they can achieve the promised performance figures? I do not believe so.

But does that mean Airbus has no clue as to what performance figures they can expect from the A350XWB? I do not believe that, either.

After all, Boeing does not appear to have met the range figures they were promoting on their website for years, having revised them downward a few hundred nautical miles within the past six months. Mind you, they may find some or all of it once the plane enters flight test or over a few years of refinement. And we don't know why the range figures were reduced. Was it because the plane is overweight? Was it because airline fixtures have increased in weight over the past few years so Boeing has revised upward the values of the variables they use to calculate these ranges (with a corresponding drop in range)? Or was it just design trade-offs through talks with customers, who in the end decided to trade a bit of range for something else?


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8830 times:
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Airbus seems to want to do anything to keep the A350 going, including taking a loss on A330 for now. The list of airlines being offered cheap lease looks like every airline that ordered more then 10 A380's.

User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8670 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8639 times:

Very good offer made to EK. I hope they look at both planes very costly. Btw, What is US ordering the A350?

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8325 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
Airbus seems to want to do anything to keep the A350 going, including taking a loss on A330 for now. The list of airlines being offered cheap lease looks like every airline that ordered more then 10 A380's

We all know Airbus sells aircraft because of either 1) saving local jobs 2) dirt cheap prices 3) as compensation for the A380 delays 4) because Boeing didn´t want the customer 5) because Boeing chose not to be in the segment

About Airbus wanting to do anything to keep the A350 going, what would you buy as a long haul 300-320 seater for the next decade? a B777-200ER/LR, a B787-10/11?

Obviously Boeing is not so sure.. :
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ing-studies-next-step-for-777.html


User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 966 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8054 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 22):
Obviously Boeing is not so sure.. :

Maybe thats because Airbus hasn't firmed up its designs yet... What is Boeing supposed to compete with??

Its not like Boeing doesnt have time. If they want to EIS a 777NG in 2015, they dont have to start till 2011.


User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7800 times:

If demand for PAX 330s does pick up and the 330F has to be delayed as a consequence, it may have been a bad decision to close down the 300F line this year...

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 4):
I know that it has been discussed numerous times on here but you can't help feeling that a warmed over A330 with latest generation engines and other minor tweaks may have sold really quite well

I vaguely remember hearing something about GE offering Airbus to install the GEnx on the A330, but I don't know how much truth is in that. I agree with you, but now it's too late to spend money on that. Besides Airbus is quite stretched thin already. Maybe they could incorporate some enhancements into the freighter version?


25 Post contains images FriendlySkies : What do you think would happen if Boeing offered 60 772ERs at a similar price to the A333s Airbus is offering when Clark visits?
26 Post contains images Lumberton : Quoting from the article, this appears to be a nice problem to have:
27 SEPilot : I would agree with Astuteman that Airbus has been designing planes long enough to know what they are doing. It's not a case of so much of not knowing
28 UA76Heavy : Airbus needs to be very careful as to not sacrifice its future A350 sales. If it floods the market with A330s now, their (market) cost will be next to
29 Stitch : In my opinion, the fact that the A330 without any new technology is doing so well bodes promising news for the 777 to continue to do well without any
30 SEPilot : This I totally agree with.
31 BoomBoom : But the residual values of the A330 will plummet when the 787 begins flying. Airbus has to discount the A330 up front to compensate buyers for this l
32 Stitch : Depends on the buyer and how they intend to use it. An airline like SQ, with very aggressive depreciation schedules, probably would demand "insulatio
33 Aminobwana : The strategy of the "BARGAIN E330" to solve the A380 and A350 Marketing Problem is extremely risky, as NAV20 states. It has many characteristics of a
34 RIXrat : If Airbus is offering the A330 as a lease object until the A350XWB comes in, what happens to them when the airline says thank you and returns them? We
35 EI321 : I suspect we will still be hearing this even after the damn plane has entered service! Residual values of A330s will plummet whenever 787 & A350 prod
36 BoomBoom : Of course, the 787 will enter service next year; the A350-1000 not until 2015, if Airbus manages to keep on schedule.
37 SEPilot : They will fall, but not terribly dramatically. Remember that 787-A350 production will by no means meet demand for some time to come, so the productio
38 Post contains images Manni : Let's just call it the year of the widebody! Where do you get these numbers from? There is no such a thing as a 'delayed' A350 order from Emirates. T
39 EI321 : I think its sad that some people are like this.
40 Lumberton : You very well could be correct here. However, IMO one must be careful not to take this "freighter conversion" scenario as an article of faith--especi
41 Astuteman : That's not correct. The Genx engines were accommodated simply by raising the front of the aircraft 2-3 inches, achieved by lengthening the front land
42 Post contains images Baroque : But Keesje you missed 6) to assist the aerospace industries in other continents where they source parts for their planes, and possibly 7) by selling
43 Aminobwana : * This is a SCENARIO (means Example!), not a statement of facts (there are none except the related to the B777!!) basing on the hints of Tim Clark th
44 Post contains images NorCal : Dirt cheap prices maybe, but I believe they make a profit on their deals because of their dirt cheap manufacturing costs. Take for example the A330 a
45 BoomBoom : I'll defer to your expertise here. My comment was based on an article I read quoting an Airbus employee. I looked through my files to try and find it
46 Areopagus : Were accommodated? What you describe sounds like the A350-pre-XWB design. Is that what you have in mind? It sounds like a considerable modification i
47 Pygmalion : What A330/340 production process is Boeing using for the 787?????? Moving line? No that was the 737NG... Full composite one piece barrels? Nope. Hard
48 Post contains images NorCal : How about this one? The global production system for the 787 that Boeing has developed is very similar to Airbus'. However Boeing has taken it to ano
49 Post contains images Dank : Plus the addition of having the wiring done at the partners' sites. cheers.
50 Pygmalion : I know of no full risk sharing partners on any Airbus program with the exception of EU governments. Boeing has had a global production system for many
51 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...which isn't a part of Europe nor Asia How, pray tell, could they be-- at this point? Or at least until Airbus has........................wait on i
52 XT6Wagon : Airbus got its start flying around its parts for aircraft in... Boeing Superguppies.
53 Post contains links Zeke : Boeing had very little to do with the Super Guppy, the B377 type certificate data sheet was obtained by Aero Spacelines from Boeing, which designed a
54 Post contains images StickShaker : One of the most popular myths on A.net. Both Airbus and Boeing have been around for decades. Neither company gives aircraft away - they would not be
55 Baroque : If the repayment of the RLI is any guide, the old BAe accounts suggest that the repayment and interest phase ended between about 2002 and 2004 and si
56 Post contains images Stitch : I want to note up front that I agree with your comments, including this one. However, if SQ had not...dawdled...so long when it came to order the 787
57 PM : "Dawdled"? D'you know, SQ ordered the 787 'late' and in modest numbers (20 cf the 77 that I remember being announced [SQ & SALE] a decade ago when th
58 SSTsomeday : I was under the impression that you can't get a slot for the 787 until the 350's EIS anyway, if you haven't already ordered. So isn't his a mute poin
59 EI321 : It looks like there are still 787 slots available from 2011 onwards. A350 EIS is mid 2013.
60 Post contains images Stitch : Aye, considering Boeing has been talking with them since the 7E7. I imagine SQ really does want something 777-sized as a minimum and were probably ho
61 Jacobin777 : ....what about the A345/A346 line which was IIRC was on the order of around $3-$5 billion.....sales have languished and I highly doubt it will pay ba
62 JayinKitsap : The 767ER is still doing well on the lease / resale market while the non ER models have seen the decline. It appears that with the volume of buying c
63 Scouseflyer : I have wondered why it has taken them so long to firm the XWB order (especially after Mr Chew said that it would happen within a couple of months of
64 EI321 : The A340-500/600 cost $2.9b and the A330-200 cost $450m to develop. The original A330/340 cost was something like $3.5b at the time and the original
65 Pygmalion : People keep saying $14B for the initial 777 development and they keep getting told with appropriate sources that its was more like $7Billion... Could
66 EI321 : Then where does the 14b come from?
67 Stitch : The actual number is widely believed to be more then what Boeing actually initially claimed, but I suppose $14 billion for five variants, including t
68 NorCal : Probably the same place the "Airbus sells planes at a loss" lie comes from
69 Jacobin777 : that would mean the A330/A340 line was $7billion, not including the engines, infrastructure, etc..... most important is ROI...the B777 platform will
70 Post contains links EI321 : I did a quick search: http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=777+development+cost+&meta= http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/b777.ht
71 EI321 : Were there other investors in the 777?
72 Scouseflyer : Might of got it wrong but didn't GE develop an engine and also invest money directly in the frame?
73 Lemurs : Just because people will buy it does not mean it's not obsolete. The 767 is a clear example of that. It's been essentially obsolete since the introdu
74 OldAeroGuy : Only for the 772LR/3ER. None of the engine OEM's put money in the original 777 airframe.
75 EI321 : Wasent there investment from Japan?
76 Stitch : Probably not direct investment, but they do provide a good chunk of parts for the family so they would have to invest in facilities to build them, ju
77 StickShaker : I wouldn't use the word obsolete to describe the 330 as it suggests it is entirely unwanted. Yes - the 787 is technically superior but that comes at
78 Lemurs : Neither would I right now. I said 5 years from now originally I think, and 2 years (EIS 787) for obsolescance...probably more acurate to say it will
79 Shenzhen : Having been privy to Airbus' A350 Campaigns, they spend more time trying to detract from the 787 then putting the A350 forward. Too bad really, as th
80 JayinKitsap : Does Boeing spend more time putting the 787 forward than bashing the Airbus product? When the 330 was competing with the 767, did Airbus extol the vi
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What Happened To Flight International Magazine? posted Fri Feb 22 2002 23:52:16 by Cliperb777
How To Tell Whether An EK Flight Is 772 Or 773? posted Sat Aug 25 2001 12:39:14 by Airsicknessbag
Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing posted Tue Mar 20 2007 22:50:21 by Clickhappy
DL Trims Hawaii: OGG Down To Single Flight posted Tue Mar 13 2007 22:02:31 by Laxintl
Denver Hoping To Be More International posted Mon Mar 12 2007 16:19:44 by Oly720man
UK Opposition Party To Introduce Flight Limits! posted Sun Mar 11 2007 06:46:44 by Kaitak
EU Set To Ban Pakistan International posted Fri Feb 23 2007 17:11:46 by Airpearl
Flight International Aircraft Cutaways Online! posted Thu Feb 8 2007 01:41:18 by 9V-SPJ