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Miami Pushes For South Africa Link  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3851 times:

A delegation of businessmen from Miami visited South Africa lately pushing for a non-stop link to the country:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200704300345.html

Miami has been without South Africa service since January 2000, when SAA replaced Miami service with now-discontinued Atlanta service. SAA was close to announcing Miami service last year, but instead decided on service to Chicago O'Hare. That service, however, suffered from poor advanced bookings, and was discontinued approximately one month before launch. Miami has the country's largest South African community and strong ties to the area, but those ties have become weaker with the lack of non-stop air service. There have been rumours lately that American Airlines is closely investigating flying to South Africa from MIA, which they last looked at doing back in 2000. South African Airways has also expressed some interest in flying to Miami, but with their current situation, it is unlikely to happen anytime soon.


a.
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

If AA were to go into South Africa, any speculation on routing/aircraft?

User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 997 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

It would be great if AA would open a route to South Africa from MIA.

I think they would do well, with a 777 instead of the larger 747 that SAA used.



"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

If AA were to fly to S.A it would be from Miami due to the large South African community in South Florida.

If it were to include a stop it would be in Lagos,Nigeria due to the local community and oil traffic, if it were non-stop It would be JNB via CPT since their 777s can make it.

 twocents   yes 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

A daily 777 round-robin MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA flight would be the most efficient routing that AA could provide.


.......
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8502 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3700 times:
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Why does the 777 have to stop in west africa, it can go nonstop to J'Berg, fly on to Cape Town and fly nonstop back to Miami from CPT as the SAA 744 did. West Africa flying should be by 767 nonstop from ORD, JFK or MIA as a separate operation.

User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Why does the 777 have to stop in west africa, it can go nonstop to J'Berg, fly on to Cape Town and fly nonstop back to Miami from CPT as the SAA 744 did. West Africa flying should be by 767 nonstop from ORD, JFK or MIA as a separate operation.

It can't go non-stop to JNB, unless were talking 77Ls.

JNB is too high of an elevation.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

MIA-JNB would be pushing their B772ER's and it might be load restricted on certain days....

A MIA-CPT-JNB would also be pushing the B772ER and it probably wouldn't make financial sense for AA to do it.

MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable and I'm not so sure if AA would be willing to take the chance...though carriers such as BA and LHR are probably doing fine with it.

Also, don't forget, North American Airlines already flies JFK-LOS nonstop with their B763, so there is a North American-based carrier flying to Nigeria...

It would be nice to see AA take some "bold" steps instead of adding a few South American routes/flights only...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable

Even so, the yields to Nigeria from MIA would be incredible - maybe enough to offset any extra security expenses incurred. It would be a bonus for a South African operation altogether. I'd like to think AA would send a 777 MIA-LOS-JNB until the alleged 787's arrive when MIA-JNB non-stop is feasible.

Nonetheless I think it would be a good market for AA to capitalize on.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):

MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable and I'm not so sure if AA would be willing to take the chance.

The same can be said for Haiti which is even worst, turns out the PAP is one of their most profitable routes.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
I'd like to think AA would send a 777 MIA-LOS-JNB until the alleged 787's arrive when MIA-JNB non-stop is feasible.

The flight is feasible now.

If it would make a stop in LOS, it would most likely utilize the 767-300/ER.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineAH332 From Algeria, joined Mar 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3594 times:

Hi,

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 3):
If AA were to fly to S.A it would be from Miami due to the large South African community in South Florida.

Living in South Florida, I can attest to that. There are scores of South African families here. My high school had a bunch of South African kids and one of my good friends is from Jo'burg.

An AA service would definately work. Non-stop with a 772 might be pushing it. But, a 763 flight via the above mentioned LOS or even perhaps LAD would seem better. Angola is a nation in transition and growth so you never know.

Just my  twocents 

Cheers,
Imad



Bledi Heya Al Djazaeer! // Next Flights: AB MIA-DUS-ORY, AF ORY-MRS-ALG
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
The flight is feasible now.

I thought a non-stop MIA-JNB route was pushing the envelope of the 772's range, especially during certain seasons. Then there is whole issue of the pilot's contract and ULF as demonstrated by the PEK debacle.

Either way, South Africa would be a good market for AA.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3552 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable

Even so, the yields to Nigeria from MIA would be incredible - maybe enough to offset any extra security expenses incurred. It would be a bonus for a South African operation altogether. I'd like to think AA would send a 777 MIA-LOS-JNB until the alleged 787's arrive when MIA-JNB non-stop is feasible.



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):

MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable and I'm not so sure if AA would be willing to take the chance.

The same can be said for Haiti which is even worst, turns out the PAP is one of their most profitable routes.

If security isn't as big as a problem as it's perceived to be, then AA should give it a "go"....it will be very interesting to see how AA approaches this situation...I think it could be a big potential money-maker for AA...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

There are range issues using the 772 non-stop to South Africa from Miami, and it could especially hurt the amount of cargo AA can carry, and cargo is a key profit maker on this route. The rumours have been that if AA goes with South Africa (which is a huge risk that would be unlikely of AA, but they are indeed conisdering it), it would be via Lagos. Miami-Lagos would be a cash cow.

I would like to see AA start with an MIA-LOS-JNB routing, and 3-4 years down the road, as AA becomes stronger in both markets and acquires 787s, AA could split them into seperate non-stops.

One thing is for sure is that if AA goes to Africa this winter, we will know within a month or two. However, I personally do not think we will see AA go to Africa in 2007, but I think it is a good possibility for winter 2008. As their financial situation continues to rapidly improve, I think AA is going to be willing to take bigger risks next year.

Also, much less likely but still a possibility, American Airlines plans to start service to Recife this November, and Recife is an ideal stopover, geographically, between Miami and Jo'Burg. However, the local market between Recife and Jo'Burg is almost non-existant, and flying a 763 between Miami and Recife would be overkill. I don't think it would work, but it is something to keep in mind.



a.
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 6):

JNB is too high of an elevation.

The elevation of JNB is irrelevant if the flight is routed MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA.



.......
User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

YYZ MIA JNB on AC, using the 772LR is an interesting theoretical route and has been subject of rumours.

However the major stumbling block is the Canada S Africa bilaterals do not, as yet permit this. The bilaterals may well be renegotiated to permit it.

I am not sure whether 772LR has the range fro MIA JNB non stop?

When this has been discussed in past some posters have pointed out that S Africans in transit to from Canada would need a US visa or transit visa, and while this is true it is a bit of a red herring because the vast majority of those travelers would already have a US visa as many would transit US anyway, or would plan on visiting US while in N America.

A bigger problem might be lack of great STAR ALLLIANCE feeder network into MIA.

Anyway it makes for an interesting discussion.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 15):
I am not sure whether 772LR has the range fro MIA JNB non stop?

Yes, it does.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 15):
A bigger problem might be lack of great STAR ALLLIANCE feeder network into MIA.

I don't think this will be a huge problem. There is significant local traffic in the market, which is why AC has been considering MIA as a drop-off point in the first place. Toronto provides the connectivity. Plus, the route would have an SA codeshare.

I'd love to see AC do YYZ-MIA-JNB, I just don't think it will happen for a handful of reasons, but there are bigger issues than the lack of feed. If it was lack of feed, AC wouldn't even be thinking of making a stopover in Miami in the first place. The reason the stopover has been looked at is because MIA can provide the market by itself.



a.
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Does AA even have enough planes for this?


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
Does AA even have enough planes for this?

LOL..the shortest but most important question on this thread


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
Does AA even have enough planes for this?

Yes, thanks to AA not being granted the Dallas-Beijing route.



a.
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I'd love to see AC do YYZ-MIA-JNB,

Cute idea, but not very customer friendly - pax travelling JNB-YYZ would have to disembark in MIA, clear US immigration and customs, and reboard. Not much fun.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

Keep in mind that things like a "large South African population" (works for any population group not living in their country of origin) don't make a good case for a profitable flight - VFR is something that'll keep your loads realitively high, but will keep your yields quite far down.

Either MIA-JNB can be profitable in it's own right, or I doubt we'll be seeing SA or AA (re-)opening it.

At least AA has access to some historical data - they did have their flight number on SAA's flight for a while before it was axed... it's not the most current data, since it's been a couple of years, but some trends should still be visible from them.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8502 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3134 times:
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Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-JNB would be pushing their B772ER's and it might be load restricted on certain days....

JNB's altitude doesn't matter when the 777 is flying there nonstop from MIA. Its landing at JNB.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
A MIA-CPT-JNB would also be pushing the B772ER and it probably wouldn't make financial sense for AA to do it.

MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA

AA is already pushing the 777 envelope on the ORD to New Dehli route of 15 and a half hours & ORD to PVG(Shanghai).
Pushing the 777 is an old sport at AA, why should Miami not get a JNB link ?


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3116 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 22):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-JNB would be pushing their B772ER's and it might be load restricted on certain days....

JNB's altitude doesn't matter when the 777 is flying there nonstop from MIA. Its landing at JNB.

its taking off from JNB which would be problematic...

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 22):
Pushing the 777 is an old sport at AA, why should Miami not get a JNB link ?

...the "still air" distance is much further than either ORD-DEL/PVG

Quoting CayMan (Reply 15):
I am not sure whether 772LR has the range fro MIA JNB non stop?

with AUX tanks, it can do with with ease....in fact, it would even be able to do MIA-JNB...and it probably wouldn't need all 3 aux tanks...maybe 1-2 which would be good, as it would allow for extra cargo revenue as opposed to Jet-A.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Why not combine it with the planned flight to SSA until the 787 arrives? MIA-SSA-JNB wouldn't be so bad... I'm sure Brazil would grant 5th freedom rights, even if temporarily...

25 MAH4546 : No, not much fun at all, but it isn't my "cute idea". Air Canada has been looking at flying the route themselves. VFR isn't always a money maker, but
26 RB211 : How come South African Airways chose FLL over MIA?
27 MAH4546 : Back in 2000 when they needed a fuel stop, they chose FLL for three reasons: 1) Codeshare with DL, which allowed SA to codeshare with DL on FLL-LGA,
28 Whales : If I was flying I would not want to stop in Lagos, but rather Cape Town Miami return, and direct into Johannesburg, When supposedly flying on a direct
29 ConcordeBoy : Something I've yet to notice anyone mention here are the new ETOPS allotments. One of the biggest problems (alongside crew and fleet availability) AA
30 CayMan : Not necesarily, as AC pax traveling YYZ MIA pre-clear US cust9oms and immigration in Canada, so on the YYZ JNB leg it would not likely be necessary.
31 Umhlanga : Why exactly are we discussing this rumor which is based on no evidence whatsoever? The article in question mentions SAA (which is cutting routes, not
32 PavlovsDog : How about a MIA-GRU-JNB routing? It isn't that much longer, 8% according to the Great Circle Mapper, and might allow AA to make some money off their a
33 MAH4546 : The South Africa rumour has been floating around AA for well over the past year among employees. Yes, it is just a rumour, but one that employees hav
34 Post contains images PPVRA : That's what I was thinking Main market would be MIA-JNB, with extra seats/cargo available for SSA or REC. It's been said that some people actually fl
35 MAH4546 : Yes, it's been said, and it's true. AA and TAM interline a good amount of people onto SAA's GRU-JNB flight, even though the layover in Sao Paulo is q
36 Post contains links and images PanAm747 : In the case of ETOPS requirements, check the Great Circle Mapper, http://gc.kls2.com , and one will find that with an ETOPS of 138, MIA-JNB is not a
37 United_Fan : I have a picture of a SA 744 landing in FLL in June of 01. So..........
38 Post contains images Leskova : That's why you should always book nonstop flights if you don't want a stop... a direct flight can (and usually will... otherwise it'd be called a non
39 MAH4546 : So......? SAA flew to Ft. Lauderdale for a short period, mid-2000 through 9/11. The routing was CPT-FLL-ATL-CPT until 9/11's new security rules made
40 Byrdluvs747 : If LOS is questionable then why not ACC? The stability there far exceeds anything in Nigeria.
41 ConcordeBoy : Not really. Keep in mind that the GCM assumes a 389kt OEI velocity, which doesn't accurately apply to a 772ER in a realworld scenario. ...only part o
42 PanAm747 : I believe ACC was Delta's first choice for their ATL-JNB, but getting full traffic rights between ACC-ATL and ACC-JNB was not going to happen. I'm no
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