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May 1 On Alaska Airlines  
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4019 times:

So, just got back from trip to Chicago this past weekend for a wedding that I was in, and, of all of our aviation group which is 90% commercial airline pilots, of a couple that fly for Alaska/Horizon, Tuesday is suppose to be the start of their "slowdown" to which pilots write up anything and everything they can find, plus, call ins are rumored to jump significantly. One friend showed us a letter that some were sending out in SEA before management got word of it and pulled one and responded hastily to the pilots protest of their contract negotiations.

Have any others heard anything such as this or what's to come? Just to make sure this topic wasn't already mentioned, I searched past Alaska Air topics and only found this mentioned on one other page, moreso an internal webpage for active commercial pilots, but didn't see this on here at all. What's the word, anybody flying AS Tues?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Thread starter):
So, just got back from trip to Chicago this past weekend for a wedding that I was in, and, of all of our aviation group which is 90% commercial airline pilots, of a couple that fly for Alaska/Horizon, Tuesday is suppose to be the start of their "slowdown" to which pilots write up anything and everything they can find, plus, call ins are rumored to jump significantly. One friend showed us a letter that some were sending out in SEA before management got word of it and pulled one and responded hastily to the pilots protest of their contract negotiations.

Have any others heard anything such as this or what's to come? Just to make sure this topic wasn't already mentioned, I searched past Alaska Air topics and only found this mentioned on one other page, moreso an internal webpage for active commercial pilots, but didn't see this on here at all. What's the word, anybody flying AS Tues?

Nothing new here. I bet Alaska will replace it's pilots with Menzies rampers.

It is time for change at AS. The current exec team has really shown poor judgement when it comes to employee relations. The change needs to start at the top.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

Alaska pilots have really been treated well throughout the years. Yes! They did take a pay cut two years ago, however are still very high paid for the A/C type they fly. I Believe its right below WN. Although I would be pissed if I took at 20-30% cut, its not as bad as some other pilots got it after 911. AS did not lay off one single pilot, did not take away one pilots pension. My point is they have been really spoiled through out the years, management just wanted their pilots to have market fair wadges. Its childish to call in, or write up bogus MX problems because the only people that suffer are the $12 an hour CSA's that have to deal with all the angry passengers. I hope they can settle this civilly, if not there are TONS of pilots out there that would kill for an Alaska Airlines pilot job. These bitter pilots should go work for someone else if they are so up happy.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 1):
Nothing new here. I bet Alaska will replace it's pilots with Menzies rampers.

It is time for change at AS. The current exec team has really shown poor judgement when it comes to employee relations. The change needs to start at the top.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3068 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 2):
Its childish to call in, or write up bogus MX problems because the only people that suffer are the $12 an hour CSA's that have to deal with all the angry passengers. I hope they can settle this civilly, if not there are TONS of pilots out there that would kill for an Alaska Airlines pilot job. These bitter pilots should go work for someone else if they are so up happy.

It's very childish and unrealistic, but as we've seen time and again from unions, they have no problem acting in such a manner.


User currently offlineSea2Pdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 2):
It is time for change at AS. The current exec team has really shown poor judgement when it comes to employee relations. The change needs to start at the top.

Care to elaborate? I guess I just have a hard time feeling sorry for the 2nd highest paid pax airline pilots in the country. Compare the hours an AS pilot flies compared to a WN pilot...interesting. If you want that huge paycheck, then you better work for it. AS has done everything in its power to not lay off people. In the end, it had to make some really tough decisions. Which is better, lay off several hundred people, or file bankruptcy, cut everyone's pay, eliminate thousands of people's pensions, and so on and so forth? AS has vowed not to go down the road of so many legacy carriers and to their credit, they haven't.

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 2):
Its childish to call in, or write up bogus MX problems because the only people that suffer are the $12 an hour CSA's that have to deal with all the angry passengers

 checkmark  Thanks for realizing that...so many people don't care to consider the ramifications of their actions.


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

I had great sympathy for the pilots when I heard that they reverted back to 1992 wages, however with what I had to put up yesterday alone, having all of my flights go on at least :30 mx delay, having to apologize and rebook over and over, I have nothing but contempt for all of their childish actions.

The company knows that through job slowdowns, etc., any work group can literally cripple an airline, I don't know why some of the pilots feel that it is their responsibility to "show this" to management. Picket, cry, shout all you want, I'll be behind you, but when your actions start to negatively affect your fellow employees, that's when I cry fowl. We're all in this together, and if my eyes are correct, I have yet to see a pilot stand at the customer service center to apologize to his passengers and coworkers.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Thread starter):

Horizon is not doing a slowdown. They have nothing to do with this being a seperate company.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3582 times:

So far AS has canceled one SNA-SEA flt. Dont know why it was canceled, just know its not coming in.

User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Alaska Pilots are picketing at corporate. This is from the Alaska employee website..

Pilots picket at corporate:
Event coincides with amendable date of contract
May 1, 2007 ¯ More than 400 Alaska Airlines pilots conducted informational picketing today in front of Corporate Headquarters in Seattle and staged a rally at nearby Angle Lake Park in conjunction with the May 1 amendable date of their contract.
"Two years ago, when the arbitrator ruled on the contract, the industry and Alaska Airlines were in a much different position financially," said Captain Tom Crank, chairman of the Air Line Pilots Association Master Executive Council. "Alaska Airlines is coming off of a record-profit year and is poised to become more efficient and profitable. The pilots shared in the pain two years ago. We now expect to share in the gains."
Company and union representatives have been negotiating on a new contract since January and have tentatively agreed on 12 of 31 sections. Still to be negotiated are areas such as compensation, health benefits and retirement


User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 646 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 6):
Horizon is not doing a slowdown. They have nothing to do with this being a seperate company.

ASSFO

Great news. I am heading from ACV to SEA on Thursday and I am looking forward to my trip. Any idea on what microbrew of the month is offered this week?



I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Checking the 4 BUR-SEA flights, and only one actually ran quite a heavy delay, AS515, departed1219pm rather then the scheduled 1013am. The other 3 flights ran ontime and even arrived early.

User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

As was stated, today was the informational picket in front of Angle Lake. Alaska pilots were there, and Horizon pilots were invited to attend as well, even though they are not part of the same union. FYI, Horizon pilots are in negotiations as well, although they are not as far along as the Alaska group.

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 2):
Yes! They did take a pay cut two years ago, however are still very high paid for the A/C type they fly. I Believe its right below WN.

12 year WN Captain : $198 per hour
12 year WN First Officer: $131 per hour

12 year AS Captain: $154 per hour
12 year AS First Officer: $97 per hour

Those look really close  Yeah sure

AS pilots got screwed by an arbitrator who understood nothing about the airline business. The judge used airlines like B6 and UA for comparison. Well, B6 was only a few years old, so that was a bad airline to choose. Pilots don't expect high wages at a startup like JetBlue. They are willing to sacrifice higher wages for quicker upgrade. Alaska pilots aren't going to get a quick upgrade, so they expect better pay to compensate for the extra time in the right seat. United pilots have opportunities for career progression to larger aircraft that pay higher wages, therefore pilots are willing to accept lower rates on smaller aircraft because they know they can make it up later in their careers. Alaska pilots don't have that opportunity.

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 5):
I had great sympathy for the pilots when I heard that they reverted back to 1992 wages, however with what I had to put up yesterday alone, having all of my flights go on at least :30 mx delay, having to apologize and rebook over and over, I have nothing but contempt for all of their childish actions.

How do you know this was related to a slowdown and not simply bad luck? Aircraft do break from time to time.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineDCrawley From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

I heard that there were no actual slowdowns today from the statistics reviewed by mid-afternoon. I wish many of my friends and the rest of the AS pilot group the best of luck!


"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
User currently offlineSea2Pdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Those look really close

Then by all means, AS should cut reserved seats, Board Rooms, First Class, an award-winning Frequent Flyer program, all in the name of higher paychecks for its pilots.

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 8):
Captain Tom Crank, chairman of the Air Line Pilots Association Master Executive Council. "Alaska Airlines is coming off of a record-profit year and is poised to become more efficient and profitable. The pilots shared in the pain two years ago. We now expect to share in the gains."

Do AS pilots not partake in profit-sharing? If not, is that the company's fault, or the union's?

I guess for me it all comes down to what I find myself saying a lot - if you don't like the job, then leave. If WN pays so much more and the money is whats really important to you, then leave, go work for WN, I'm pretty sure they're hiring pilots.


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3278 times:

Quoting Sea2Pdx (Reply 13):
Then by all means, AS should cut reserved seats, Board Rooms, First Class, an award-winning Frequent Flyer program, all in the name of higher paychecks for its pilots.

Huh???

I was simply pointing out that AS pilots aren't "right below WN" as Socalatc said.

Quoting Sea2Pdx (Reply 13):
Do AS pilots not partake in profit-sharing? If not, is that the company's fault, or the union's?

They do, but do you think those profit-sharing checks will come even close to covering the 32% pay cut Alaska pilots took?



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineSea2Pdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
I was simply pointing out that AS pilots aren't "right below WN" as Socalatc said.

You're right, its not right below WN pilots.


Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
They do, but do you think those profit-sharing checks will come even close to covering the 32% pay cut Alaska pilots took?

Its all relative. I didn't imply that profit-sharing was going to make up the difference. What I was implying was that AS does make a point of sharing its gains with its employees.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
AS pilots got screwed by an arbitrator who understood nothing about the airline business. The judge used airlines like B6 and UA for comparison.

So who exactly should AS have been compared to? AS has always been in a league of their own, so finding comparable airlines is difficult. But when AS 737 12 year Captains are making more than CO and DL 737 Captains and NW, UA and US 757/767 12 year Captains, I think you'll find its going to be difficult to garner much sympathy. Those guys took pay cuts too. Being #2 sucks when there's only 2 airlines, but reality is that even with the 32% paycut, AS pilots have a lot more going for them than most airline pilots.


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
How do you know this was related to a slowdown and not simply bad luck? Aircraft do break from time to time.

I'm well aware of that. I work with the MD-Maybe every day and see it happen on quite a few flights each day. How do I know that it was simply not bad luck? Becuase I know the captains I had to work with and I know their reputations.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3229 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Alaska pilots don't have that opportunity.

Sure they do, go find a better job. FEDEX and UPS are always hiring pilots.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
was simply pointing out that AS pilots aren't "right below WN" as Socalatc said.

So where do they fall? They are below WN but are they not above B6, UA, CO,FL ext for type of aircraft they operate?

It was Alaska Pilots who were greedy and wanted an arbitrator to fix everything for them, the company came to the union with plenty of offers that did not involve a 30% pay cut but they were greedy and this is what they got. Its all about market fair wadges, all their union groups are either at market wadges or a little above. I know the importance for getting paid for the job that you do, I flew for years! However, I also know the importance of longevity of a company, and I think Alaska is doing whatever they need to go to stay around for another 75 years.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13255 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3184 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
AS pilots got screwed by an arbitrator who understood nothing about the airline business.

Incorrect. AS pilots argued for the right to have an arbitrator come in and "fix" things in their last contract, because at that time wages were going up and up and the company would drag its feet during negotiations. The idea was that on the NEXT contract, an arbitrator would come in and settle things if the company and union couldn't strike a deal - and again, since wages were always going up, it would only be a question of how much of a raise they'd get once the arbitrator ruled. Right?

Oops.

They never DREAMED it would work both ways though - so after 9/11, once every airline out there began slashing wages, AS pilots suddenly found themselves in the rather unenviable position of being relatively "overpaid" compared to their peers flying similar equipment at other carriers - AND with a contract that was now amendable. AS asked for cuts to bring their pilots in line with their competitors, along with productivity increases. When negotiations went nowhere, in came the arbitrator - as mandated by the pilots' contract language.

As they say, be careful what you wish for. The rest is history.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Alaska pilots aren't going to get a quick upgrade, so they expect better pay to compensate for the extra time in the right seat.

Of course the flipside to this argument is that if the pilots give the company more productivity in exchange for higher wages per block hour - essentially a cost-neutral contract - there would be more money for AS to invest in converting dozens of 737-800 options and purchase rights into firm orders.

Which ultimately translates into quicker upgrades to Captain.

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 17):
It was Alaska Pilots who were greedy and wanted an arbitrator to fix everything for them, the company came to the union with plenty of offers that did not involve a 30% pay cut but they were greedy and this is what they got.

 checkmark 

And management, realizing they got even more than what they initially asked for, offered to toss out the arbitrator's solution in favor of a flat 20% cut across the board on a 5 year deal instead of a 2 year one. The pilots refused, and opted to take the much larger cut as a 2 year hit from the arbitrator and called it a day.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3110 times:

It never fails to amaze me that of all of the unions to pull this type of nonsense, the pilots. ARE you NOT the HIGHEST paid employees at the airlines. I have a very good friend who happened to have been Chairman of an Asian Airline in the 90's tell me of a fellow state owned airline Chairman from Europe who, when he was appointed, was asked by the head of Human Resources what salary he was expecting. He told them to pay him $1.00 more per annum then the highest paid employee. At the end of the first month he received his first paycheck. He called down to the Human Resources Director and asked "Who the hell are we paying this much money to?!?!" the reply came "...747 pilots!" True story.  Smile

User currently offlineEIPremier From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 16):
I'm well aware of that. I work with the MD-Maybe every day and see it happen on quite a few flights each day. How do I know that it was simply not bad luck? Becuase I know the captains I had to work with and I know their reputations.

I have been suspicious that certain pilots have a tendency to look for any little item that needs fixing, at least since the pay cuts went into effect. It seems like those MDs take more than their fare share of maintenance delays.

However, after May 1 and the first part of May 2, I wouldn't say there is clear evidence of a slowdown. According to flightstats, 82% of AS arrivals were on-time yesterday, so that seems pretty normal.

[Edited 2007-05-02 21:02:45]

User currently offlineFlyboy97502 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2911 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 5):
I have yet to see a pilot stand at the customer service center to apologize to his passengers and coworkers.

Well my experience comes from flying AS sister company QX and also just as starting as a CSA for QX.... I have had many times when a Mx issue comes up that the Captain will come into the boarding area and explain the situation, or will be waiting right there to talk with anyone who has a question about things going on. I tip my hat  bigthumbsup  to them because I know that AS or QX pilots care for their passengers! Its unfortunate that you haven't had the opportunity to see this first hand.



SKYHIGH Airlines- It's important that we get the SkyHigh message out there. That message? Thank you for your money.
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

Quoting Flyboy97502 (Reply 21):
Well my experience comes from flying AS sister company QX and also just as starting as a CSA for QX.... I have had many times when a Mx issue comes up that the Captain will come into the boarding area and explain the situation, or will be waiting right there to talk with anyone who has a question about things going on. I tip my hat bigthumbsup to them because I know that AS or QX pilots care for their passengers! Its unfortunate that you haven't had the opportunity to see this first hand.

...you must be new.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2902 times:

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 20):
have been suspicious that certain pilots have a tendency to look for any little item that needs fixing, at least since the pay cuts went into effect. It seems like those MDs take more than their fare share of maintenance delays.

However, after May 1 and the first part of May 2, I wouldn't say there is clear evidence of a slowdown. According to flightstats, 82% of AS arrivals were on-time yesterday, so that seems pretty normal.

May 1st and 2nd were just fine, and it's honestly not the entire pilot group as a whole (I realize my first post makes it sound as if I was blaming them all), it's individual pilots who decide to take it upon themselves to "stick it to Corporate" for whom I have those feelings. We all know who they are, we all cringe when we pull them up on the manifest, and then we all sit back and wait (after boarding has finished) while they call maintenance out to "check out a bug"...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 22):
...you must be new.

I resent that statement as a QX employee... I have seen that too... I am a QX mechanic in SEA and have wittnessed that as well. In fact, the majority of the employees of the airline realize that with out the pax, they would not have a job, and thus they will go out of their way to help them. I have even seen flight crew come out and help the CSA's load baggage when they are running late. How many other airlines will one see this kind of customer service at?

I do not feel sorry for AS pilots one bit. They got themselves into this mess, and they need to just deal with it.

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
25 F9Animal : I am sure the guys sitting behind those nice desks and collecting those big fat checks have considered many of the above options. Heck, they have don
26 Post contains images Flysherwood : You wouldn't happen to be a pilot, would you? You are forgetting about a small teenie weenie airline by the name of Southwest that came blazing into
27 F9Animal : I agree with you 110%. Alaska Airlines is a good airline. I have always supported the employees of the airline. I think they have some of the best em
28 F9Animal : And one other thing. If it was not for the unions in the airline industry, the employees of most airlines would be making Mcdonalds wages. It seems th
29 Flysherwood : You may be totally right here but I do have one question. Are the employees of Southwest unionized?
30 Post contains images F9Animal : Great question. Yes, they sure are. In fact, they are some of the highest and topped out in the industry. I was shocked myself, but they are very hea
31 Post contains images EA CO AS : I'm bookmarking this so I can refer back to it every time you slam AS from now on.... They've also got a very big cost problem that needs to be addre
32 Sea2Pdx : This is what gets me everytime about the union argument. Its like someone was holding a gone to an unwilling stranger's head telling them that they w
33 EIPremier : What's unfortunate is that most passengers won't know that there are some pilots out there looking for anything to write up, and will just assume the
34 F9Animal : LMFAO!!! I do have a big heart for Alaska. I just can't stand the way it is being run at the top levels. It is sooooo hard to watch such a great airl
35 ASAFA : Excuse you. I am so sick of people saying "if you don't like it quit and find another job" I'M SORRY, but it doesn't work that way. Why don't you qui
36 F9Animal : Amen. That is exactly to the point, and is what I have been trying to type on my keyboard, but could not get it out like you did. It is just not a pr
37 F9Animal : Example: Take home pay every month: $2,000.00 Bills and house payment: $1,400.00 The rest goes to food, gas, and other expenses. That leaves $600 to l
38 ASAFA : Could not agree with you more. Welcome to my RU list. Exactly, and it needs to STOP. It's not just a problem in the aviation industry either. I have
39 KBFIspotter : I should not of said anything to that comment, as I was ill informed... Kris
40 F9Animal : Thank you ASAFA! You are also very right about this not being just a problem just in the aviation industry. IIRC, Circut City just fired all of its h
41 EA CO AS : I agree. And I mean that. Unfortunately that means airlines have to either get customers to voluntarily pay much more for their tickets than they do
42 Socalatc : Well, your incorrect. I flew for years, I stated to dislike my job did not think I was getting paid enough for what I did, so I quit and went to the
43 Post contains images Sea2Pdx : You're right, those assembly line workers ended up making enough money to afford vehicles much nicer than the ones they were producing. I guess I mis
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