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El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4096 posts, RR: 90
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8266 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

El Al is reported to have renewed talks to acquire 787s after cancelling their interest in 8 to 10 frames last November.

If the report is accurate they are, after a meeting between El Als CEO and Boeings Mr Scott Carson in London last week, considering the following;


- Looking to take delivery of 2 x 787 in 2011
- Follow this up by looking at a mixture of lease and direct purchase for a further 6 to 7 frames
- This is about the same amount of frames that they held deposits for but cancelled.

The report is in a local Isreali newspaper and cites Boeing sources and a spokesman for El Al declined comment when called. Rather interesting and it would be appreciated if any local members could verify whether this is the case or add any further information.

A link to the article times out but the report is available via a search at this link http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3083,00.html

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8259 times:

This order is almost as protracted and comical as the Aeroflot one!

They want 787s, they don't want them now they do again!


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8136 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
This is about the same amount of frames that they held deposits for but cancelled.

Why did they cancel them in the first place?? Was it $ or another issue??

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
They want 787s, they don't want them now they do again!

Yeah, no doubt.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8091 times:

LY is in urgent need for new planes to replace their ageing 767 fleet, yet the problem is they don't have money to finance the deal.

They've looked at the A330, yet contrary to popular belief, Airbus is not giving planes away only to break into a market.

They've looked at the 787, yet the deal broke down over financial issues.

They've turned back to Airbus, hoping they'd get a better deal on A330s after the 787 was launched, only to find out the A330 got even more expensive due to its huge popularity.

They now turn back to Boeing in the hope to get a better deal than the first time... as if.

This can go on for ages...


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8045 times:

If they've got no cash, why don't they order some more 767s - they'll be cheap?

User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7989 times:

El Al need a plane in this category and it beggars belief that the order won't go Boeing's way. Much as I'd love to see A330s in El Al colours (not to mention A350s!) I wouldn't bet a bean on it ever happening.

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7909 times:

Are they having superficial talks with Airbus also or will this one go straight to B?

[Edited 2007-05-02 15:19:51]

User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 743 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7863 times:

Talks with A are only to secure a better deal with B!
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7850 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4):
If they've got no cash, why don't they order some more 767s - they'll be cheap?

Good question, they can easily order some B-767-300ERs and/or B-767-400ERs.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 6):
Are they having superficial talks with Airbus also or will this one go straight to B?

Actually, I think they are looking for the best interest rates they can get. The type aircraft may be secondary. If that is true, Boeing may have a slight edge over Airbus, as they can get a slightly better deal.


User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7766 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!

LY is privately owned


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7732 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!

US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.


User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7677 times:

BTW - couldnt find the article on YNET.

I did find an article that LY paid 2$20 Million for new SICMA seats on the 777.

About a year after I reported it ...

El Al To Install Flat Beds In Platinum (by Amirs Apr 3 2006 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7466 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.

Wouldn´t that be noble.. http://www.cidi.nl/news/news1999.html#09-12-99a  frown 


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.

Wouldn´t that be noble.. http://www.cidi.nl/news/news1999.html#09-12-99a



Quote:

Boeing officials have since complained that because the mid-range jets were not part of the original planned order, they were never able to make a case for their own mid-range 767 model.

On Monday, Transport Minister Yitzhak Mordechai abruptly froze deliberations by El Al's board over the Airbus deal, saying he needed time to examine it himself. Officials inside and outside El Al, however, have until now denied feeling any US pressure to alter the deal.

El Al spokesman Nachman Klieman told Reuters that the airline has not decided which company would win the contract to supply the engines for the 777s, but that "Rolls-Royce is the frontrunner."

Did El Al buy RR on the 777s?


User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7406 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
Wouldn´t that be noble..

Political orders happen (just like SU), it would be nice if they didn't but I guess we have to accept it. Its not like EL Al really makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. They aren't a LH, EK, or SQ. They are talking about buying 2 planes, I doubt Airbus will lose sleep over this.


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 743 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7370 times:

Quoting Amirs (Reply 10):
Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!

LY is privately owned

Yes, I forgot that they went private recently. However, no one will ever convince me otherwise that they would not be under scrutiny and pressured to buy Boeing.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 16):
Yes, I forgot that they went private recently. However, no one will ever convince me otherwise that they would not be under scrutiny and pressured to buy Boeing.

Then why bother talking about it? You're convinced you already know the answer, even if you got smacked upside the head by evidence to the otherwise. Might as well give up thinking about it all together, it'd be wasted effort.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7225 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Did El Al buy RR on the 777s?

I believe they have Trent 892s, I may be wrong though.

The 787-9 or -10 would be a perfect replacement for their B777s.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 963 posts, RR: 38
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7191 times:

Their 777's are only a few years old. (first delivery in Feb 2001 IIRC) no need to replace them. Need is for older fleet replacement... 757, 767

User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2117 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7165 times:

Airbus still is "desperate" to enter the israeli market properly and LY really had a good deal for 6-10 A330's last year including financing aid simlilar to those received in the past by Boeing nevertheless the order was not made. It looks like LY does everything but even consider getting Airbuses so I gues in the near and probably long term no airbuses will fly for them which is really a shame. At least Israir made a wise choice and maybw one or 2 A330/340's will still be ordered by them as well.

User currently offlineJFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7115 times:

EL AL will go Boeing... Israel does not recieve money from Washington for there day to day activites.

Israir will find out sooner than later that going Airbus was wrong. I would like to see the day when they ask the government permission to fly to a city they currently do not fly to. They will get denied immeiditely

Israel and Boeing conduct alot of business together in regards to military hardware. That is the reason why Israel and Boeing are in bed together. Not because of Israel recieving aid from Washington.


Aid From United States
Israel recieves 2 billion a year
Egypt recieves 1.7 billion a year
Lebanon recieves 1.3 billion a year

and the list goes on.

There is no indication of Egypt and Lebanon being obligated to purchasing Boeing.

Boeing and Israel need each other for work. Israeli Aircraft Industries are partners with Boeing Military Division.

In regards to 787 EL AL will definitly purchase these planes. It is just a matter of finances and how long Boeing is willing to give them to pay it off.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2117 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7061 times:

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 21):
israir will find out sooner than later that going Airbus was wrong. I would like to see the day when they ask the government permission to fly to a city they currently do not fly to. They will get denied immeiditely

I am sure Israr will not resecive less help from the governmnet just because they purchased Airbus. This is pure rubish!!! Israir made a very good choice, the Boeing 737's are inferior to Airbus regarding comfort speed etc. I am not expecting EL AL to go all Airbus but at least the A330 / A350 would've been a good plane for them.

When does LY plan to have the new flat seats installed in all 744's and 772's and upgraded their IFE with AVOD? Or will this only be available in the 2 new 772's that will be delivwered this year. Also incase Flat seas will be introduced it wold get time for a new first Class any plans fo that?


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 743 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 17):
Then why bother talking about it? You're convinced you already know the answer, even if you got smacked upside the head by evidence to the otherwise. Might as well give up thinking about it all together, it'd be wasted effort.

Say what you want, they will order Boeing. You can smack yourself upside the head when you see a 787 in LY color scheme.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6851 times:

Quoting Amirs (Reply 10):
LY is privately owned



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.

Right and Right buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut the US ambassador in Tel Aviv does reccomend Boeing in talk with El Al and their management to keep up relations in a perfect state with the US if you know what i mean  Wink

Same thing with the US Ambassador of Jeddah and Riyadh reccomending Boeing for SV which in the end worked out for them.. with a massive order of MD-90, 772 and 744 in the late 90's!

This happens all over the world and always will.. just matters where you have your hands in  Silly

leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6838 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 24):
Same thing with the US Ambassador of Jeddah and Riyadh reccomending Boeing for SV which in the end worked out for them.. with a massive order of MD-90, 772 and 744 in the late 90's!

SV had originally intended to split that order.


25 Clickhappy : El Al has a couple of new 777s coming this summer, perhaps they will announce something when they deliver...
26 EI321 : clickhappy Are they 772ERs?
27 Clickhappy : yes, first one should be delivered in late July
28 Cityguy : At the risk of making this a thread debating politics, JFK is essentially correct. Why should Israel buy airplanes from a country that is overtly and
29 Slz396 : I think the importance to Airbus of 'breaking' into the Israeli market is more than just a bit overrated. Sure, Airbus wouldn't mind selling EL AL a
30 EA772LR : Couldn't El AL use the money for their coming 772's for 787's?
31 Post contains links BEYauty : Not sure where you get your sources from, however, Israel gets more than $2 billion per year in military aid, and more than $1billion in economic aid
32 JFK787NYC : Reply to BEYauty: Why dont you go look at 2007 not 2004 Israel accounts for everything there is just one big difference United States imported goods f
33 A380US : not even a qustione boeing already won this now im posotive LY will buy the 787 unless they go bankrupt first now the only other israeli airlines tha
34 7cubed : I believe this drama has played out before. Seems like not too long ago an Israeli airline opted for airbus which brought a visit by Madeline Albright
35 CO738 : This is almost as bad as car shopping. It's like you put a deposit on a car that you really like and then you see a car at another dealership and you
36 LTU932 : Yes. All of LY's T7s in service use Trent engines.
37 TodaReisinger : A shame? Why would it be a "shame" for an airline not to have Airbusses in its fleet? On the contrary, it makes more sense for a small fleet not to m
38 Post contains images Manni : Just curious what country you are talking about? BTW, Airbus is a product from several countries. It looks like LY wants to go shopping for aircraft
39 JFK787NYC : What an utterly ridiculous comment (talking about the comment, not you). Your statement is based on what? Jews buying American cars in.... America. BT
40 LXA340 : From this point of view It would be the most efficient with LY's fleet to have ony Airbus Aircraft in it's fleet. Now there is only commonality betwe
41 FlyBaby : That's simply incorrect. Israel nowadays gets essentially no economic aid from the USA. Plus most of the $2bil military stuff it does get has to be s
42 FlyingClrs727 : If they need new planes so urgently, why not order some more 767's? There's lots of potential slots on the 767 line, especially if the line gets sped
43 Post contains images Stitch : 767 production is quite slow now (is it even one a month?) and the line has secured a few scores of orders the past few years, so chances are LY coul
44 AA1818 : What sort of timeframe are we looking at here for an order??? AA1818
45 Pygmalion : Globe article in Israel. Boeing and El Al have had a long relationship. Their engineering and maintenance staffs have worked together for half a centu
46 JayinKitsap : In 2006 12 767's were delivered and 3 thru March. As of March 31, there were 61 unfilled orders. I recall reports at the time of the UPS order this s
47 FlyingClrs727 : That's a backlog based on the minimum rate of one per month to keep the line moving. There's a lot of latent capacity ont that line. They've also lau
48 Stitch : Remember that the 767 suppliers themselves have to ramp up production of the components. When the line went something to one plane every 1.5 months, I
49 TodaReisinger : That's an unending debate...and an all-Boeing fleet can also be an excellent option. * How will there be 787s available for lease if there's such a s
50 Post contains images Manni : Just in case you're not aware of it. LH = Lufthansa Do realise that this is airliners.net, talking about airlines (airliners are the things used by a
51 Amirs : The two new 777 coming this summer will have the new premium cabins and economy seats. Premium they will be lie flat/flat bed. Those same seats in th
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