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BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day  
User currently offlineNijltje From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 8033 times:

Speach of the Belgian PM Guy Verhofstadt

http://premier.fgov.be/nl/premier/speeches/2007/30152.html

quote

That is why I am proud to be able to announce today a great moment for both Jet Airways and Brussels Airport. As of today, Brussels is the European hub for Jet Airways. With this move, Brussels will become the gateway between the Americas, Europe, Asia and Africa. As of today, Jet Airways is our connection to Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore and Ahmedabad, on the one hand, and New York, Toronto, Chicago and Los Angeles on the other. Via India, we also have a platform for other destinations, such as Singapore, Bangkok and, in the longer run, Shanghai and Hong Kong. For its part, Brussels Airlines is the connection to a multitude of destinations in Europe and Africa. In short, with today's cooperative venture the world is linked via Brussels.

More specifically, as of August there will be four return Mumbai-Brussels-New York and Delhi-Brussels-Toronto flights per day. Starting in 2008, that will rise to six flights. The ultimate goal is ten flights per day. That means 3,200 passengers per day. Or one million extra passengers per year for Zaventem.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24912 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 8024 times:

Good news for BRU and 9W


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineEmptyarm From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 7978 times:

Wise choice from 9W, BRU has plenty of potential

Good luck


User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1288 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 7911 times:

All I can say is congratulations to Brussels Airport, Brussels Airlines and Jet Airways in particular!

A link to Japan and one to South America - maybe also South Africa, are probably what's left missing (mainly).
Some more Gulf carriers may venture in the Brussels market but the market will be less attractive with this offering.
And of course a decent airline on BRU-BEY or vice-versa would be sweet!  Wink



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4002 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7785 times:

In the long run this is a losing strategy. It won't last more than a few years. Jet needs to hub in either Bombay or Delhi or Bangalore and fly nonstops to the US - lots of them.

Bombay-Brussels-NY?... Duh! Soon there will be two US carriers doing it nonstop. No matter how good Jet's service is, it will have difficulty attracting traffic.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4755 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7785 times:

So it seems that ORD and LAX will be routed via BRU...surprising though that IAH and IAD were not mentioned...hopefully they have other EU points in mind as the stopover city for IAH and IAD bound flights.

BRU-LAX is an interesting routing...though it would be better if flown via the Pacific than BRU.


User currently offlineNijltje From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7688 times:

Maybe they will loose some pax due of not flying direct but they will gain a lot of PAX in Europe by working very close with SN....and why should you have your hub in BOM if you can have a great underutilized infrastructure in the middle of Europe.

Everyone thinks that the national airlinne needs his hub in their originating country....9W management is just thinking out of the box. so not small plane to big plane but big to big


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5017 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7605 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 4):
In the long run this is a losing strategy.

I don't see why. With those flights, they'll be offering one-stop services from Bombay to not only NY (both EWR and JFK) but also Toronto, Los Angeles, Chicago, half of Africa, and all of Europe (with SN codeshare). Remember, they're not just flying a 'one-stop' flight, they're building a true hub here. Sure, the route you picked might attract more paasenger if flown direct, but I doubt there's a market big enough to justify, say, direct flights Bangalore - NY, Bangalore - Chicago, Bangalore - LA, Bangalore - Toronto, and all those destinations direct from Chennai or Ahmedabad.

I see this as a true win-win situation for both 9W and SN: 9W gets a whole bunch of European and African routes to feed into, and SN gets a whole range of long-range destinations to feed.


User currently offlineDetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7578 times:

i dont understand this, why would brussels allow an indian carrier to serve their airport, instead of protecting SN ?? Do they just give 9W a blank check as to how many flights they can serve??

Also if i were 9W i would try and do these routes non-stop, cuz in this day and age it is possible!!! so why not???



Boiler Up!!!
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7553 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 4):
In the long run this is a losing strategy. It won't last more than a few years. Jet needs to hub in either Bombay or Delhi or Bangalore and fly nonstops to the US - lots of them.

It remains to be seen. Does anyone know the ratio of passengers to HKG from NYC/LAX on non-stop versus one-stop flights?

Quoting Nijltje (Reply 6):
Maybe they will loose some pax due of not flying direct but they will gain a lot of PAX in Europe by working very close with SN....and why should you have your hub in BOM if you can have a great underutilized infrastructure in the middle of Europe.

I would avoid BOM/DEL as a hub in favor of a stop in Europe or Pacific. The key for Jet is to offer direct services to BRU from cities beside BOM/DEL.


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5017 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7491 times:

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 8):
Also if i were 9W i would try and do these routes non-stop, cuz in this day and age it is possible!!! so why not???

Because they'd eventually need to start up the following routes direct:

Bombay to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Delhi to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Chennai to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Ahmedabad to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

and Bangalore to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Because those are the 25 routes they'll be offering one-stop between India and North America with this scheme.

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 8):
why would brussels allow an indian carrier to serve their airport, instead of protecting SN ?? Do they just give 9W a blank check as to how many flights they can serve??

How exactly would they be 'protecting SN' by allowing an airline to fly to destinations SN doesn't serve, to continents SN doesn't serve?


User currently offlineMayhem From Belgium, joined Feb 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7491 times:

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 8):
i dont understand this, why would brussels allow an indian carrier to serve their airport, instead of protecting SN ?

There is very little SN to protect. SN doesn't have the funds to grow on itself, so if the European flights get a higher loadfactor thanks to the codeshare with 9W, that would be a good deal.
Further if you mean the Belgian government by "brussels", then i suppose that they support 9W for using BRU and bringing more long-haul flights (which for us are direct flights) to new destinations.

I do however hope 9W realises the political mess at BRU on noise abatements  Yeah sure


User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1288 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7444 times:

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 11):
I do however hope 9W realises the political mess at BRU on noise abatements

The 777-300ER, A330-200 and 787s aren't to be considered the loudest flying objects by far.

Of course this isn't going to last for 20 years and of course they will be opening nonstop between India and these North American destinations, but it's a very good startup strategy. BOM & DEL-NYC may soon or late warrant nonstop, but not all other combinations, at least not in the reasonable future.

SN is a local player at the mercy of any sign of aggressivity by any larger surrounding carriers or low-cost operators, if there is one thing, this agreement is strenghening their position rather than weakening it.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineVTNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7434 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
9W gets a whole bunch of European and African routes to

that's stretching it a bit. Who would want to fly India-Africa or US-Africa via BRU?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
Bangalore - NY, Bangalore - Chicago, Bangalore - LA, Bangalore - Toronto

one can only hope for thrice a week COK-BRU-IAD (plug for MK777) or CCU-BRU-IAH. I see them competing against the likes of EK, BA, LH, AF rather than AI and the U.S. carriers.

VT-NYC



First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17352 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7405 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 10):
How exactly would they be 'protecting SN' by allowing an airline to fly to destinations SN doesn't serve, to continents SN doesn't serve?

How is SN going to serve them now?

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
US-Africa via BRU?

That was SN's business plan basically; plus most of AF's African services are timed to connect with Transatlantic flights.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4755 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7380 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
half of Africa

I honestly doubt that African routes would be flown via BRU !!!


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7372 times:

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
US-Africa via BRU?

People have been flying US-EUROPE-AFRICA for ages. The amount of transit passengers in BRU that fly between Africa and the US (on CO, DL and AA then further on SN) is nothing to laugh at. How many scheduled flights are there currently between the US and Africa?



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7361 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
How is SN going to serve them now?

Passengers flying out of Africa (using SN) can now connect on 9W service ex-BRU to EWR, YYZ, and soon ORD and LAX. To a lesser degree, one-stop service to both U.S. and India via BRU for those in Europe using SN. I actually think this is a risky 9W strategy but with potential for big payoffs. As I have mentioned in my posts before, Belgium consistently ranks as India's largest/2nd largest trade market in Europe and people are undemining the demand for O/D (especially J-F O/D) on this sector.


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5017 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7349 times:

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
Who would want to fly India-Africa or US-Africa via BRU?

Check AA's flights to BRU, and you'll see more than a few passengers are connecting to Africa in BRU.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
How is SN going to serve them now?

Codesharing. They've already signed codeshare agreements for the flights to BOM, DEL and YYZ. SN doesn't have the funds (or the ambition, really) to build a large network to North America or India.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 12):
BOM & DEL-NYC may soon or late warrant nonstop, but not all other combinations, at least not in the reasonable future.

Even if they do start serving NYC non-stop, I don't see them dropping the flights via Brussels, even the flights like BOM - BRU - EWR. Passengers for NY will take the non-stop service, those to all the other destination will take the one-stop via BRU.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 15):
I honestly doubt that African routes would be flown via BRU !!!

Codeshare with SN.

[Edited 2007-05-02 17:37:03]

User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7324 times:

Personally, a one stop flight to the US is what i prefer rather than those 16 hour flights non-stop. I usually fly cattle class and would much rather stretch my leg after 7 to 8 hours than 13-16 hours. Besides i get to see another airport on the way.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 12):
BOM & DEL-NYC may soon or late warrant nonstop, but not all other combinations, at least not in the reasonable future.

I concur.

I think 9W is trying to get a feel of what its like flying to North America. Give them time. I am sure they will do non-stop but they would like to add future destinations in N. America, just like many others have suggested in the discussion- IAH, IAD, BOS, maybe even SEA and YVR.

It will be interesting if 9W would offer service to MCO during the peak summer travel when school is off in India so folks can take their kids to disney world, this way they can tap the Florida market and test it to see if it warrants a 12 month service. just some ideas.

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
COK-BRU-IAD (plug for MK777)

You know that would be great, just waiting for the damn announcement, but i feel this route might be, as Behramjee suggested, DEL-GVA-IAD, since there is no service b/w GVA and IAD at the moment, this route would work well for 9W

Nonetheless 9W at IAD would make my day  Smile



come fly with me
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17352 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7292 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 18):
SN doesn't have the funds (or the ambition, really) to build a large network to North America or India.

That has never stopped many a EU country from protecting their airlines before...why start now? Particularly with a non-EU carrier? EU countries are still trying various (likely illegal) shenanigans to protect their companies from cross border takeovers; I'm just surprised that Belgium is not putting up a fight at all.....yet.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5017 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months ago) and read 7245 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
That has never stopped many a EU country from protecting their airlines before...why start now?

Once again: how on earth are they hurting SN by giving them a whole slew of long-haul flights to feed into? If anything, they're actually HELPING them.

Besides, I don't know whether you know or not, but SN is not government-owned.

What do you suggest they do? Sit around hoping for SN to one day, maybe, consider flying to either of those destinations?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
EU countries are still trying various (likely illegal) shenanigans to protect their companies from cross border takeovers

Just to remind you: in the EU cross-border takeovers of airlines are actually allowed, unlike in another country that proclaims to everyone how they are the shinig beacon of free trade and capitalism...


User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7106 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
in the EU cross-border takeovers of airlines are actually allowed, unlike in another country that proclaims to everyone how they are the shinig beacon of free trade and capitalism...

Lets not deviate from the topic at hand. I could write a thesis on trade policies of some EU countries (um, France), and another on when it comes to how some EU countries handle anything outside EU (um, France). Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Finland, England, all represent more liberal EU countries that understand that the concept of economic nationalism is self defeating in a globalized world.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7086 times:

So San Francisco (SFO) will still be served via China?

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLurveBus From Philippines, joined Mar 2007, 286 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7022 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
Once again: how on earth are they hurting SN by giving them a whole slew of long-haul flights to feed into? If anything, they're actually HELPING them.

This is a very good point. If anything, for the next few years, 9W will be actually developing demand for nonstop routes from Brussels to the US. When the day comes that 9W will drop their hub in Brussels in favor of nonstops from India, SN could fill the void.


25 Incitatus : Air Canada is now getting 777LRs. Toronto to India nonstop is just a question of time. India to Africa via Brussels does not sound smart. The Middle
26 WestWing : I guess 9W will be very convenient for the premium passengers shuttling between Surat and Antwerp.
27 Behramjee : not really hence the BRU hub announcement which will see all the major Indian metro cities connected with BRU nonstop. so all major indian metros wil
28 MaverickM11 : You're being rational, which is not what state governments do. That's what they've done in the past! They are in theory, but you might want to ask E.
29 VTNYC : This calls for a self contained areas at BOM, DEL, BLR and MAA for 9W to handle their transit passengers who undoubtedly will materialize once hub BRU
30 Scorpio : And yet I very much doubt they're going to fly direct to all five Indian cities that 9W is planning on connecting through BRU. 9W isn't going to fly
31 BrianDromey : Switzerland is not an EU member. It is, however party to some of the key economic agreements, and common travel areas. I guess teh idea of teh hub is
32 WorldTraveler : Have you counted the number of connections that LH and BA offer to India over their European hubs - and in many cases they can connect pax faster tha
33 Vincewy : I personally prefer scissor hub (for countries with more than 2 majors cities connecting to more than 2 long haul destinations over 15 hours) , don't
34 Post contains images Mk777 : No offense, but I rather fly an Indian carrier over any european carrier for my flights to India, so it would do a lot for me, the crew and the infli
35 Detroitflyer : im really surprised you have said that. Hasent BA consistently ranked higher??? Also just a question but if SN does grow, can the begian government e
36 Vincewy : 9W has been giving serious competition to the domestic sectors in India, now it's time to do this in the international arena, proving once again that
37 Post contains images VC10DC10 : Well, nonstops are all well and good, but NW has been using more-or-less exactly this strategy for years now in NRT and AMS. NW jets leave the USA go
38 Nimish : That seems to be the current plan, with a BOM-PVG-SFO daily flight being the only transpacific sector planned right now. The rest are all converging
39 Keesje : During the last ten yrs BRU was dwarfed by CDG, SPL and LHR. Good to see they found a new ambitious partner to restart hub operations. Very important
40 Amirs : Once they start to add more traffic, they should throw in nonstop DEL/BOM-NYC, before they add more DEL/BOM - BRU - NYC flights. Or add BOM - NYC, DEL
41 Post contains images BMIFlyer : Congrats to 9W and SN, i'm sure this partnership will work very well for both carriers Lee
42 Humberside : With Brussels Airlines not codesharing on BRU-EWR, can Jet Airways sell the route themselves?
43 15A : On the whole one stop vs non stop debate. i suspect the decision to go one stop is cold economics. they will never have the intra-us feed that an amer
44 EnviroTO : Did he mean to say four per week? I can't imagine four flights a day between Brussels and Toronto let alone the future predictions of six to ten.
45 WestWing : I think he meant that on each day BRU would see the following four flights passing thru BRU BOM-BRU-NYC NYC-BRU-BOM DEL-BRU-YYZ YYZ-BRU-DEL
46 Post contains images Incitatus : Many people here seem to have unrealistic expectations of 1-stop flights. It is just a question of time Emirates will serve secondary destinations in
47 Scorpio : Don't you love it when armchair CEOs are convinced they know better how to run an airline than the real CEOs? Always cracks me up... Has it ever occu
48 Karan69 : Good point, and also we have to consider is UDR capable of handling EK category aircraft, also EK will have to heavily bribe AAI to designate UDR to
49 Incitatus : Let me ask again, as there was no answer. Are there any routings where the network of Jet with a hub in Brussels will offer more convenient, quicker
50 Kiramakora : This is a silly analysis dont you think. Lets use the example of EK (since you seem to be a fan of going through DXB). When EK was formed, the same q
51 InitRef : But you can be sure that when 9W believes that BOM is truly ready to be their Intl hub they will get out of BRU pretty fast. The issue is not just BOM
52 VTNYC : Only once a day and not all days of the week afaik. Hope that 9W will connect COK to BRU which in turn will connect it to EWR, ORD, etc. etc.
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