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Mesa(Air Midwest) Gives Up In The East?  
User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5366 posts, RR: 7
Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Mesa (Air Midwest) yesterday filed notice with the DOT that it intends to discontinue service to Athens, GA, Hagerstown, MD, Franklin/Oil City, PA, Dubois, PA, Lancaster, PA, and Lewisburg, WV, as of August 1, 2007. All routes are US Airways feeders, with the Athens route feeding CLT and the others feeding PIT.

Unlike previous Air Midwest notices, which were often successful ploys to increase subsidies, this sounds final, with Air Midwest saying they intend to redeploy the aircraft to different hubs.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5978 times:

LWB goes to CLT as well as PIT, on the same A/C IIRC. I would not be surprised to see 9L jump on all of those routes, less Athens.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5970 times:

Where is Colgan going to find more junkers to run these routes on though? They already had to (crap)can ABE-PIT to free a plane so they could pick up the MGW/CKB/PKB flying.

User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5366 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5937 times:

Franklin and Lewisburg may not see new service. Their subsidy rate was projected at around $200 per passenger, the legal limit. If Air Midwest can't make those routes work at maximum subsidy, I doubt Colgan can either. Hagerstown is another question mark.

I believe Air Midwest was reawarded all these routes since April, 2006. They aren't wasting any time quitting.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

Hmm.. what about Air Midwest CHS/ORF-RDU flights? Are they still around or are they in danger also?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5366 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5735 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
what about Air Midwest CHS/ORF-RDU flights?

Checking Orbitz August schedules, those flights appear to be gone.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

Hmm.. I just checked Kayak (which went to Orbitz) for September 4, and the flights were still loaded.. oh well.. maybe they just haven't taken then out yet..

Sometimes, Air Midwest will stop the flights for a month or two and/or Gulfstream International will run the flights..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

Those flights aren't EAS, are they? So SOMEONE could conceivably make money on them, or they would have been gone long ago.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

When Air Midwest/Mesa announced the discontinue of their Lake Havasu service to PHX, which ends this weekend, they announced a further rapid discontinue of most of their B1900 flying. In the article, it mentioned that their only profitable route in their entire network with the B1900 was the RDU-CHS route. Interesting enough, because here in PRC, Mesa did end up bidding against Great Lakes for the EAS route up for grabs right now with the new bid effective July 1, so, it's actually looking like if Mesa gets the PRC EAS subsidy, and IGM is dropped all together from the EAS program, then PRC may actually finally be getting the Dash 9 flights that we've been waiting for, thank God

User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

Mesa after October 1, when Lancaster and Hagerstown's EAS subsidies disappear, would have 4 cities with 2 aircraft spread across some 600 miles (AHN is a long way away from DUJ). Unlike Great Lakes and Big Sky, Mesa understands they can not run an operation with 2 aircraft and a full maintenance base for the East Coast. That's a whole lot of overhead for 2 only aircraft.

They still have roughly 5 lines of flying out west and 7 or so in the midwest.


User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5556 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
Hmm.. what about Air Midwest CHS/ORF-RDU flights?

What was the purpose of this route? Norfolk and Charleston are big Navy towns.

I wonder who will serve LNS now...


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9180 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Republic Airlines, where are you???

Hey, they likely may not be the ones to add the service, but it's just a thought. Perhaps PSA? Or are 50-70 seaters too big for these markets? Eh, on second thought... Those are very small close markets to PIT (minus Athens)...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 11):
Republic Airlines, where are you???

Hey, they likely may not be the ones to add the service, but it's just a thought. Perhaps PSA? Or are 50-70 seaters too big for these markets? Eh, on second thought... Those are very small close markets to PIT (minus Athens)...

No, no, no, and no.

It would be a real stretch runway-wise to get an RJ into HGR (5461'), FKL (5200'), DUJ (5504' + terrain).

HGR isn't really close to PIT (around 2 hours from here in Uniontown, so somewhere around 3 hrs and a few odd minutes up to PIT) but it is relatively close to MDT and the Washington 3.

Not to mention if the Beech 1900's are too much aircraft for those markets sans subsidy, an RJ would just be a huge waste of money.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
Mesa (Air Midwest) yesterday filed notice with the DOT that it intends to discontinue service to Athens, GA, Hagerstown, MD, Franklin/Oil City, PA, Dubois, PA, Lancaster, PA, and Lewisburg, WV, as of August 1, 2007.

As Imapilotaz already said, HGR/LNS are going to lose their EAS subsidy eligibility on October 1. I expect the DOT to hold-in Air Midwest at those two markets until that date, likely at increased subsidy.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):
I would not be surprised to see 9L jump on all of those routes, less Athens.

I'd expect Colgan to make a play for DUJ and LWB. Big Sky will likely bid on them as well.

As for AHN, that's the tricky one. Colgan will now probably get the access into US's CLT hub that they've wanted for a long time, so Colgan could make a go of CLT-AHN in combination with moving some of the BKW/BLF service from IAD to CLT. But that's rather unlikely.

The other, more unlikely option is that Piedmont or ASA could conceivably bid on AHN and/or LWB service with larger equipment.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
Franklin and Lewisburg may not see new service. Their subsidy rate was projected at around $200 per passenger, the legal limit.

FKL will likely lose service, yes.

LWB is remote enough (210+ driving miles from CLT or IAD) that it is not subject to the $200/pax subsidy cap. Of course, it also receives a large amount of unsubsidized (well, not by the DOT anyway) service during the summer season.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
Those flights aren't EAS, are they?

Yes, they were all subsidized EAS routes. The only unsubsidized routes were RDU-CHS/ORF.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5352 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 13):
Yes, they were all subsidized EAS routes. The only unsubsidized routes were RDU-CHS/ORF.

I'm confused. I was talking about the RDU routes...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2051 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 10):
I wonder who will serve LNS now...

With MDT only 35 miles away do they really need service? I could understand if the nearest airport was 100 miles away, but subsidizing an airport that size makes no sense when there are other options available for potential passengers. If people are skipping MDT in favor of driving to PHL or BWI, subsidizing service to LNS seems like a waste of money to me.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9180 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5269 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 12):

Heck, that was expected. I figured those were too small of a market for US to fly into with those kinds of aircraft...

We can all wish and dream, right?  Smile

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 15):
With MDT only 35 miles away do they really need service? I could understand if the nearest airport was 100 miles away, but subsidizing an airport that size makes no sense when there are other options available for potential passengers. If people are skipping MDT in favor of driving to PHL or BWI, subsidizing service to LNS seems like a waste of money to me.

Besides, it's not as if LNS has no commercial service what so ever... They do have the WN charters each month  Smile
LNS should just remain a corporate/general aviation airport really. If only MDT had more service...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

Air Wisconsin is flying into LWB this weekend for a couple of days. Not sure why this is, but its only for a couple of days.

User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5366 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

Athens, Lancaster, and Hagerstown are all within 75 miles of major airports, 75 miles being the minimum distance for justifying subsidy. I know in the case of Pennsylvania and Maryland, their governors certified (lied?) that, despite possible routings of less than 75 miles, the "usual driving route" exceeded 75 miles. Who knows how Georgia justified Athens being subsidized?

The whole EAS program is a boondoggle, although one of the better ones.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 18):
Athens, Lancaster, and Hagerstown are all within 75 miles of major airports, 75 miles being the minimum distance for justifying subsidy.

What major airport is HGR within 75 driving-distance of? MDT isn't "major" Is it really that close to IAD?


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9180 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

A little off topic, but what was the deal with PIT-LBE service??? This has to have been the stupidest route in US' system when they had a larg(er) operation at PIT. It's either an hour's drive, or a 50 minute train ride on Amtrak...


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

HGR-IAD is 76 miles.

HGR-MDT is 79 miles.

But both those are Mapquest distances, and the government could conceivably compute the distances in such a way that they are less than 75.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 20):
A little off topic, but what was the deal with PIT-LBE service??? This has to have been the stupidest route in US' system when they had a larg(er) operation at PIT.

I flew it once or twice, preferred MGW though. It always had a half decent load, but that doesn't mean anything. It was a beautiful flight VFR. Followed the parkways basically, right over downtown, the stadiums, Kennywood/Waterfront, etc. I'm sure there were enough high-value business travellers/yuppies in the LBE area to support it. There is a good bit of money out there, and used to be more. From what I hear, NWA still does well on that route out to DTW. Obviously nobody was flying LBE-PIT O&D, so the Amtrak theory is moot. And you couldn't take Amtrak to the airport anyways to make a connector flight.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
HGR-MDT is 79 miles.

But MDT is a regional airport at best. That was my point. I didn't realize IAD was only 76 though.


User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5366 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5212 times:

Hagerstown to Dulles is 65 miles if you take Route 15 via Point of Rocks. If you take the "usual" route via the Washington Beltway it's slightly over 75 miles.

[Edited 2007-05-05 08:11:29]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9180 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 22):
Obviously nobody was flying LBE-PIT O&D, so the Amtrak theory is moot. And you couldn't take Amtrak to the airport anyways to make a connector flight.

Oh yeah... DUH!!! What was I thinking with the "Amtrak" theory??? Maybe if local transit provides service from Westmoreland County to Downtown and beyond. I do wish Pittsburgh had a more widespread network like Philly has with SEPTA...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 Tornado82 : I would assume that Westmoreland Transit provides buses into at least downtown. Even FACT (Fayette County's version) provides buses to downtown Pitts
26 RL757PVD : AHN- ATL is not a very quick drive, esp given ATL traffic probably looking at just about1 hr 30 min under optimal conditions over 2 hrs if its rush ho
27 Silentbob : As long we don't have to keep bailing out every couple years, like SEPTA, I would be in favor of that.
28 UN_B732 : Does AMW's shortage of captains have anything to do with this? -A
29 Flightopsguy : Too bad for HGR. I recall when Henson had the AL commuter, you had flights to several destinations on B99 and Shorts aircraft, back in the 1960's-'70
30 Steeler83 : And recently that Airport route was in jeopordy of being cut... They are proposing to extend the LRT service out there as soon as the North Shore Ext
31 Cubsrule : There are plenty out there... DTW CLT MCO LGA IAD etc.
32 Apodino : SEA LAS PHX
33 Post contains images Buddys747 :
34 USXguy : i never heard of a pilot shortage at Air Midwest.. from what I hear, those are some of Mesa's most senior (and happy) pilots... friend of mine was an
35 SHUPirate1 : If I'm not mistaken, isn't the minimum 70 miles, not 75?
36 MasseyBrown : Back in those days, Hagerstown had big Mack Truck and Fairchild operations. Fairchild is gone now and Mack is a shadow of what it was. The old busine
37 Flyboy7974 : has anybody heard any update or found/read anything concerning the PRC bid for essential service? Our local paper, hahaha, did a small article on the
38 ERJ170 : Checking the US website and it was updated as of Saturday, RDU-CHS/ORF are still on the books and bookable through at least Apr 2008
39 Imapilotaz : Flyboy, The Prescott city council put on their agenda for tomorrow the actual vote to recommend Mesa. The way City Council's work, they must first hav
40 MasseyBrown : Well ... sometimes. DOT will ignore any recommendation that seems obviously gold-plated and generally pick the low-bidder.
41 MAH4546 : They are set to end in September, despite still being bookable.
42 Steeler83 : Well... I hope after this there will be NO MORE CUTS at PIT... What else is there to cut there? They have removed FOUR HUNDRED FLIGHTS... I wonder wha
43 Rampart : Also... DEN LAX MIA MCI IAH SLC (but has one proposed) PHX is supposed to have a people mover sometime in the near (?) future connecting to its rail
44 MasseyBrown : I suspect traffic and yield forecasts are softer than US airlines have admitted and that some of the summer expansion planned last fall has been quie
45 MAH4546 : MIA has commuter rail that connects MIA, FLL, and PBI, and a MetroRail staiton will be opening in 2010.
46 Steeler83 : Then "next year" becomes 20 years... I actually started a thread in the non-av forum, "if I ran Pittsburgh..." I am rather fed up with the ways thing
47 Tornado82 : It's not nearly as bad as you think. And losing those EAS flights... at the end of the day they're all combined equal to about one 734 to FLL or some
48 Steeler83 : I guess in that regard, it's only a small insignificant dent in the PIT market...
49 Tornado82 : The AMW flights lost are basically cancelled out by the MGW/PKB/CKB gained. But it's still tiny specks of traffic. The West Virginians should have lo
50 Flyusairways : Where did you hear this? If such is the case, I sure will miss seeing these planes. I remember several years ago that there were several US B1900 fli
51 MasseyBrown : In the most recent DOT proceedings in Cases 20734,5,and 6 Colgan proposed service to Pittsburgh while reserving the right to switch all service to Du
52 Tornado82 : I know CKB wanted service to the DC metro because of the economic ties of that area to DC (huge FBI center, etc.). The thing is would it be like Colg
53 ERAUgrad02 : I know i'll get some ugly comments from this but this may give regions air potential cities to fly t once they get their act together. Any word on reg
54 Post contains links Mainland : According to their website they plan on resuming operations on May 29th to "six of the cities we previously served out of Saint Louis." http://www.re
55 MasseyBrown : Colgan earns its subsidy by flying the route; any codeshare arrangement is up to Colgan. Colgan does have incentive to make sure its partner is a goo
56 WesternA318 : Steeler, what does CO toss into MDT nowadays?
57 Ex NWA : I frequently fly into BWI w/ an ultimate destination of Hagerstown, MD. In fact I did it this past week and it was a 55 minute drive in non rush hour
58 Buddys747 : 3 Flights a day to Cleveland. No EWR, although with the new Q400's hopefully that will open up again!
59 Flyboy7974 : I doubt that CO has any plans for the Q400 on such short stage lengths. The Q400 is coming to fill the void that the regional jet just cant really do,
60 ERJ170 : So is there any word as to whether US is going to find another carrier to fly these routes or if they are going to let Piedmont take over these routes
61 Tornado82 : That's my bet. If a Beech couldn't be efficient on the routes (at least some of them), a Dash 8 surely won't be either.
62 ERJ170 : So when is this supposed to take place? everytime I check US Airways and Kayak and Orbitz, the RDU-CHS/ORF routes are still bookable (at least throug
63 ATCT : The Commutair Beeches are already "gone" so to speak. Big Sky is getting em as fast as the Dash-8's can come online. Yea Regions will be operating fo
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