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Skybus Sells Over 150,000 Fares! Part 2  
User currently offlineDsa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Hi

The old thread was getting a bit crowded so I thought I'd start Part 2, as one poster said he has a feeling the conversation is gonna go on for a long time.

Basically Skybus is reported to have sold 150,000 fares and posters made comments on this and other issues related to Skybus.

DSA

148 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

Quoting Dsa (Thread starter):
Basically Skybus is reported to have sold 150,000 fares and posters made comments on this and other issues related to Skybus.

This is a good start. Has anyone been able to track down confirmation of this figure or additional information?



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineN801NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5027 times:

A Pair of Flying Leaps

No-Frills Skybus and Low-Fare Virgin America Enter a Daunting Field


User currently offlineDsa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

More Info:

Great news for Skybus!

A member has just informed me that America's Low Fares Airline has sold over 150,000 seats after only a few days of their website going live!

May the success continue!

http://www.skybus.com

DSA

Previous Thread

Skybus Sells Over 150,000 Fares! (by Dsa May 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)

DSA


User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

From the WaPo article:

Quote:
To simplify operations, the carrier won't even allow customers departing from its eight other cities to book tickets to anywhere other than Columbus, although executives have said that some passengers have figured out ways to get from, say, Richmond to Boston through Columbus -- if they are willing to spend the night in Ohio. Diffenderffer and other executives defend that plan, saying that the Columbus market is actually massive, with more than 6 million people living within 100 miles of the city.

"People will drive 100 miles to save $100," Diffenderffer said, adding that there are thousands of college students in the Columbus area, home to Ohio State University.

While no one ever went broke underestimating the American public, this strikes me as ... well, kinda harebrained. At least if he's in any way married to this "100 miles for $100" metric. I'm having a hard time envisioning a large market for whom this is a cost-effective proposition, only considering the cost of gas and time, much less before you narrow the margin with Skybus's helpful service fees. Back in school, I was as broke as any college student, but I was always able to find a reasonable, affordable advance ticket on WN. And when EQMs became important to me, I never had much trouble on AA either. Obviously I'm not exactly normal -- I'm posting on here, aren't I? -- but when the novelty wears off, I think even college students will appreciate the little things like, oh, checked bags and phone-based customer service.

And the RIC-BOS thing: Kinda bizarre company executives would even bring this up, as it doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny. Let's be charitable and assume you can snag $10 tickets each leg of the trip a month out. $40 bucks, and we'll cut Skybus a break and not add up taxes. So, wow, RIC-BOS and back for $40. Plus two nights in the CMH Airport Marriott. Call that $100 a night, and you're up to $240. Or you could take NW with one same day stop for $150. And get a Coke, to boot.

Maybe this will be a huge hit, but to me, it doesn't seem like it'll make sense for very many people. I'm still a skeptic.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineDsa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4951 times:

I think it will work, simply for the reason that people love fares and think that Skybus will have the lowest fares.

DSA


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5003 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

Quoting N844AA (Reply 4):


Obviously I'm not exactly normal -- I'm posting on here, aren't I?

 laughing 

Perfect!



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

Quoting N844AA (Reply 4):
"People will drive 100 miles to save $100," Diffenderffer said, adding that there are thousands of college students in the Columbus area, home to Ohio State University.

I think that relying on college students is a rediculous idea (If I'm interpreting this correctly). In most cases, for major holidays (at least during their freshmen/sophomore year) the parents are paying for thier kid's airfare- wanting them home the same day, not having to drive 100 miles to the airport to meet their kid. I am curious to know what the breakdown of OSU's students are, but aren't most of them in state or from the Midwest? I don't see how Skybus helps in that regard.
Additionally, I don't see Portsmouth NH or Bellington WA as being big "spring break" destinations, especially considering you have to rent a car (which college age kids can't do anyways) and drive 50 miles to the city.

Quoting Dsa (Reply 5):
I think it will work, simply for the reason that people love fares and think that Skybus will have the lowest fares.

Until they realize they get what they're paying for. The novelty will wear off. Its been said over and over again, if its not the "false" destinations, it will be that they can't call anyone for information, that everything has a fee, etc. Its the same way that people assume WN always has the lowest fares until they browse Expedia or Travelocity.


User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

Quoting Dsa (Reply 5):
I think it will work, simply for the reason that people love fares and think that Skybus will have the lowest fares.

But people also love feeling like they got a great deal. If I live near CMH and I'm heading out to Burbank, and I can make the trip for $20, damn right I feel like I got a great deal -- even if it means putting up with hard-sell flight attendants and 28" of pitch for a few hours. But if I live in Cincinnati and I'm trying to get to LAX, while avoiding fares out of CVG, I'm looking at a 200-mile roundtrip, plus airport parking, plus a grand total of eight destinations, plus transportation from the secondary airport Skybus serves to my actual destination, plus questionable procedures in the event of a weather or maintenance disruption ... Well, it may be better than submitting to DL's extortion, but I'm probably going to feel raked over the coals regardless. Skybus's nickle-and-diming isn't going to make me feel any better.

And what I think will be the final, final nail in Skybus's coffin, there's already a discount airline operating out of CMH with free drinks, cheap liquor, generous pitch, flight attendants who aren't trying to sell me worthless Skymall crap, and 35 years of operational excellent that can get me to LAX -- not BUR, LAX -- for an extra $50 on the random dates in June I chose to see how Skybus stacks up to WN, at least once those $10 seats are filled.

So if you're willing to stake your money on a surfeit of Columbus residents who need to visit Bellingham, and are willing to put up with some inconveniences in order to do so cheaply, then I'd say Skybus is a great investment vehicle for you. But otherwise, I'm just not convinced this is the way to do the ULCC thing in this country.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineAvianca707359B From Colombia, joined Oct 2005, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4901 times:

Quoting Dsa (Reply 5):
I think it will work, simply for the reason that people love fares and think that Skybus will have the lowest fares.

People might love low fares, but here they define what "people" they are after:

"To simplify operations, the carrier won't even allow customers departing from its eight other cities to book tickets to anywhere other than Columbus."

"Diffenderffer and other executives defend that plan, saying that the Columbus market is actually massive, with more than 6 million people living within 100 miles of the city"

"There are thousands of college students in the Columbus area"

"People will drive 100 miles to save $100,"

They actually discourage ALL CONNECTING TRAFFIC! They will rely solely on O&D traffic who desire to fly from COLUMBUS to Bellingham WA and other secondary and third-tier destinations. And when that $100 savings whittles down to $38 after adjusting for gas, car rentals, bus transfers, time lost, etc., then we'll see how appealing their innovative service model will be.

I'm sorry, as much as I want the new kid on the block to make it, this operation is sounding more ridiculous as each day passes.

[Edited 2007-05-04 14:54:47]


In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9603 posts, RR: 69
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4868 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

So, when are they getting FAA approval?

User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting N844AA (Reply 4):
Diffenderffer and other executives defend that plan, saying that the Columbus market is actually massive, with more than 6 million people living within 100 miles of the city.

"People will drive 100 miles to save $100," Diffenderffer said, adding that there are thousands of college students in the Columbus area, home to Ohio State University.

There was a part of me that kind of held out hope that there were insiders at Skybus that had cards they weren't showing which might have made this make more sense. While that's still possible, reading something like this certainly reduces the likelihood of that in my opinion.

While they may see the Columbus market as "massive", 6 million people within 100 miles really doesn't qualify. When People Express started, they had the New York catchment and little to no similar competition with over 22 million people within 50 miles of Newark airport. And they failed. Those who point to Ryanair & Easyjet as successes with this model ignore the vast superiority of the London area O&D (and lack of Southwest style LCC competition) when compared to Columbus.

I also have to wonder what effect $3+ a gallon gas is going to have on people's willingness to "drive 100 miles to save $100." If anything, they will be more likely to do the math and see if they are actually saving $100 before clicking to purchase.

Finally, if OSU students are one of your target demographics, it's hard to see that as a path to profitability. Most of them live in the state of Ohio, so they won't be flying home for the holidays, so now you're counting on their impulse and Spring Break travel. That should cover the fares up to maybe $50 each way on the weekends during the school year and a week or two in March (assuming, of course, that Skybus comes up with more Spring Break destinations apart from FLL). We know Skybus can't make money with $10 fares. Can they make money with $50 fares? That's probably the average of fares they'll sell to college students. I would also expect college students to be less likely to buy extra things on board as they're on a tighter budget, though you never know.

In many ways, the biggest reason to be pessimistic about Skybus' future is the reasons given by its defenders for its sure success.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 9):
They will rely solely on O&D traffic who desire to fly from COLUMBUS to Bellingham WA and other secondary and third-tier destinations.

First off, I'm coming on board with everyone who had doubts about BLI and PSM. Not convinced that they are terrible choices, but I'm seeing both sides of the arguement.

However, those are only two of their destinations. Obviously, with the way their fares are looking, OAK, BUR, and FLL are doing great, or at least acceptable given how early it is.

RIC, GSO and MCI are not secondary airports in Tier 1 markets. They are primary airports in secondary markets. There's really only one way to find out if they'll end up stimulating traffic...time. They don't seem like top choices to me, but hey...who knows.


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 7):
I am curious to know what the breakdown of OSU's students are, but aren't most of them in state or from the Midwest? I don't see how Skybus helps in that regard.

UA772IAD, I am an Ohio State Student and I will be the first to tell you that you are correct as most students are from the Midwest. But you should know that most students here are CRAZY about going places for their breaks. And I'm sure that Skybus will bank on that and add additional routes to more Spring Break locations. But i also know a Number of students who want to go to places like Seattle because its something different.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 7):
Additionally, I don't see Portsmouth NH or Bellington WA as being big "spring break" destinations, especially considering you have to rent a car (which college age kids can't do anyways) and drive 50 miles to the city.

You're right they're not typical Spring Break Destinations but there are SO many students here that people go everywhere. I went to Quito, Ecuador for my spring break....is that a typical Spring Break Destination?...no.

About the Car thing, yes College students Can rent cars as long as you're above 21. There is some type of additional cost and with a partnership with Avis and Budget, booking those cars through Skybus, the extra charge pretty much cancels out.

Quoting N844AA (Reply 8):
But if I live in Cincinnati and I'm trying to get to LAX, while avoiding fares out of CVG, I'm looking at a 200-mile roundtrip, plus airport parking, plus a grand total of eight destinations, plus transportation from the secondary airport Skybus serves to my actual destination, plus questionable procedures in the event of a weather or maintenance disruption

I agree there are some issues, but I know poeple who are driving from Pittsburgh, and that is 175 miles from Columbus. If I was Simply a Leisure traveler, and I wanted to go to SFO, and tickets were still available for $10 Even I'd drive from Pittsburgh.


User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 13):
I know poeple who are driving from Pittsburgh, and that is 175 miles from Columbus. If I was Simply a Leisure traveler, and I wanted to go to SFO, and tickets were still available for $10 Even I'd drive from Pittsburgh.

I agree you will see some of this, but at the same time, how, exactly, does this help Skybus become profitable? They're not making money on that $10 fare and I'm not at all convinced you'll see this on fares that will make them money. On a CHM-OAK flight, I would imagine breakeven occurs somewhere around $75 or higher average fare. Will that same discretionary traveler drive 3 hours for a $150 + tax roundtrip (not including clecked luggage, etc.)? Some might, but I would guess not enough to make the airline profitable over time.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4805 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 13):
I agree there are some issues, but I know poeple who are driving from Pittsburgh, and that is 175 miles from Columbus. If I was Simply a Leisure traveler, and I wanted to go to SFO, and tickets were still available for $10 Even I'd drive from Pittsburgh.

Again, if $10 tickets are involved, a lot of people are going to feel like they got a great deal -- even if it incurs expenses far in excess of the ticket itself. So yeah, Skybus will move those. Every time, even to people in far-flung locales like Pittsburgh. But they're not going to make money, or come anywhere close to breaking even, on that dozen or so $10 tickets. To return to my hypothetical trip in June I've been using for these comparisons, our intrepid Pittsburgher can drive 175 miles to CMH and take Skybus r/t to OAK for $275, or (wait for it) take CO to SFO for $309.

The problem is that the fares that will actually make Skybus profitable (or even solvent!) are going to appeal to a very limited audience -- namely the CMH O&D market. They're not going to draw people in from hundreds of miles around for a ticket 10% cheaper with zero amenities (not merely, say, AA-style amenities, but literally ZERO amenities), and three times shittier service. I can't wait to see how the outsourced ticket agents handle a planeload of passengers waiting on a plane from CMH that never shows. "Sorry, no other flights. No interline agreements. No accomodations tonight. No number for customer service." People are willing to put up with a lot for $10. For $275 ... not so much.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4804 times:

Quoting Logos (Reply 11):
And they failed. Those

Only after they bought 747's and started international service. They were very successful with their core business model.


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4777 times:

Quoting Logos (Reply 11):
While they may see the Columbus market as "massive", 6 million people within 100 miles really doesn't qualify. When People Express started, they had the New York catchment and little to no similar competition with over 22 million people within 50 miles of Newark airport. And they failed. Those who point to Ryanair & Easyjet as successes with this model ignore the vast superiority of the London area O&D (and lack of Southwest style LCC competition) when compared to Columbus.

I don't know much about People Express but i don't think they lacked passengers, especially if they were out of Newark. I bet their ultimate demise was their attempt to use multiple types of aricraft, adding first class to pull in business travels as well as possibly not adjusting prices. Yeah $125 fares to London won't make money...unless you have more expensive tickets to make up for costs. ( take that last sentence with a grain of salt as i don't know their fare structure). Yeah you're right London is has a huge O&D market, but what about Ryanair flying Murcia Spain, to Bremen Germany...how are they going to make money on that?...Yeah sure they might make money but if they lose money they will make it up on a different segment. Like London to Rome. Similarly, Skybus may lose money on CMH-PSM but they'll make it up with CMH-OAK.

Quoting Logos (Reply 14):
Will that same discretionary traveler drive 3 hours for a $150 + tax roundtrip (not including clecked luggage, etc.)? Some might, but I would guess not enough to make the airline profitable over time.

I Agree with you. Nobody would drive 3 hours for a 150 dollar ticket.

Its like this. I would not drive 10 miles to save 2 cents per gallon on a full tank of gas, but i would drive 10 miles to save 12 cents. per gallon.


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4762 times:

Quoting N844AA (Reply 15):
The problem is that the fares that will actually make Skybus profitable (or even solvent!) are going to appeal to a very limited audience -- namely the CMH O&D market.

You've gotta understand, if they're going to be like Ryanair, then they will open up a base somewhere else. So they will not only be focusing on the CMH O&D.


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9603 posts, RR: 69
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4762 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

One thing I noticed in the Washington Post article, as well as others I have read, is that there is no mention of other focus cities, the WP article in particular talks about the risks of hubbing at CMH.

User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4748 times:

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 9):
They actually discourage ALL CONNECTING TRAFFIC!

While that's what they say they do, I am not actually convinced. It is possible to book two 'connecting' flights as separate transactions (and separate payment).

If the connection works - fine, everyone is happy but if it doesn't Skybus comes out a winner. Not only do they keep the revenue from the missed connection, they get to charge the now-stranded passenger for the next flight out, and I betcha the available fare wont be in the $10 range. More likely at the top end of their $300+ range for walk-up fares. The passenger can't sue - as Skybus will simply point to their website where connections are forbidden.

Ryanair does exactly the same thing, btw. Their web-site clearly discourages connecting traffic.


User currently offlineCOFanNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4716 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 18):
You've gotta understand, if they're going to be like Ryanair, then they will open up a base somewhere else. So they will not only be focusing on the CMH O&D.

Definitely understand that, but will they survive long enough relying on CMH O&D to open another base?

If this was 1997 and they were starting out at CMH and then planned to open at JFK shortly thereafter (before B6 ever existed), I'd feel better about their plan.

But how long until they open another base? Will they have blown through all of their money before then? Where do they put the base? Is there another airport like CMH that really has a desperate need for this kind of service?

Saying that they will open more bases just doesn't make me comfortable yet....just because they said it's so doesn't seem they will ever make it to the point where it happens. In which case, starting with CMH would have been proven to be a bad idea.


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4713 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 20):
If the connection works - fine, everyone is happy but if it doesn't Skybus comes out a winner.

No, they don't, because then that passenger never flies Skybus again, and if Skybus can't keep people coming back, it will go under.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4689 times:

Well, DSA, I am still waiting for your reply to my previous post. Just where are you getting this 150,000 number? It really smacks of wishful thinking. Giving the entry page of a website really is not going to cut it. Where in the site do they make that statement, or do you have a newspaper article in which one of the principals of Skybus make that claim?

To quote from the previous thread:

    Quoting Poitin (Reply 167):
    Perhaps, DSA, you will be kind enough to state exactly where on the Skybus website this information is posted? You have merely given us the main page.

    Poitin, if you see my reply no. 101, you'll see that DSA's source evidently was a post on this very board. They may well have sold 150,000 tickets, but it doesn't appear that Skybus has officially confirmed this number.



User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4683 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 16):
Only after they bought 747's and started international service.

That certainly hastened their demise (they also used the 747's on their transcon routes to Oakland and LA), but, as others have pointed out, their buy-on-board was rife with problems. They also issued stock to all their employees ("service by owners" was the slogan) and the ones who got in first did really well (at least for a while), which definitely helped employee morale. I have the same misgivings that other's have expressed about Skybus' ability to retain their $9/block hour flight attendants for the long term, let alone continue to find more for expansion.

The point is that PeopleExpress enjoyed some significant advantages that Skybus does not enjoy and they still managed to fail. Skybus has precious little margin for error.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
25 Logos : Ryanair only started operating those markets after they were well established. And they established themselves primarily on the traffic out of London
26 Wjcandee : peoplExpress failed because it bought Frontier. Period. End of story. It was a classic case of a company with a wholly different business model that e
27 Logos : Great point. Generally overlooked, but a common denominator among successful companies in a wide cross section of industries is paying close attentio
28 Cubsrule : I don't know many college students who will drive 100 miles to save $100, and being here outside Charlotte, it's not much more than 100 miles to RDU
29 Post contains images Tornado82 : Anyone who's not a WN cheerleader is welcome on this bandwagon, and I agree. If you're a WN cheerleader jump off immediately, for your beloved WN has
30 MAH4546 : Again, that is not the point here. Southwest acknowledges that Providence is Providence, Ft. Lauderdale is Ft. Lauderdale, and Islip is Islip. They a
31 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : What is your point? Just as you pointed out FLL is 15 Minutes form "north suburbs" of Miami, PSM is also closer to north suburbs. The skybus website
32 N844AA : I'm having a distinct sense of deja vu.
33 MAH4546 : You refuse to acknowledge the difference here. I'm not going to explain it again.
34 Itsnotfinals : It sure was! and still is, yet people got used to it and no one has sued them when they relaized what a pain it is to get to Manhatten from ISP. etc.
35 Tbolt1 : who said that they were necessariy targeting OSU students that are flying home? When I was in college I couldn't afford to go anywhere for spring bre
36 MAH4546 : Beacuse Southwest never makes them think that they are flying to Manhattan. Southwest makes it blatantly obvious they are flying to Islip, Long Islan
37 N844AA : No, actually, it isn't. It's a 40 minute trip on the LIRR, right smack into Penn Station. That said, I would never fly here into ISP, but nor have I
38 Tbolt1 : That's because most of the people writing articles on Skybus don't know everything. Skybus management is very secretive about their short and long-te
39 Clickhappy : Thats quite some spin there Tbolt. Skybus management, when interviewed for the article, could have said, "We will be adding exciting new routes and fo
40 Tbolt1 : This is from Skybus upper management....now whether or not you're going to believe that is your own decisions....and btw, it's over 175,000 fares sol
41 Itsnotfinals : That's your opinion. For years if you wanted to go to NYC you had to go to ISP if you wanted to fly WN. That's not an opinion it's fact. And even now
42 N844AA : I hear Independence Air had all the answers as well. Plus I'll bet Express Jet thinks they're doing something right (except maybe they actually are.)
43 N844AA : If tickets are selling at the rate of 25,000 a day, every day -- which, according to your numbers, they appears to be doing -- WHY ON EARTH ISN'T MAN
44 Logos : LOL! Actually, it doesn't. The CEO was using OSU students as a defense of their plan to be profitable. I'm not denying that what you're suggesting wi
45 ANother : They won't be eligible for one until the get their AOL. Too bad SB is taken ... btw, I find it unusual that nobody has mentioned CP Air's skybus prod
46 N844AA : Ah, never knew that. Thanks! On another note, here I make an inflammatory comment as to WHY SKYBUS IS DOOMED. Why Skybus is Doomed Reason No. 1: Beca
47 Xpfg : Because they aren't selling at 25,000 per day. 150,000+25,000=175,000. Thus, since this # has been here for now several days (150,000), the 175,000 f
48 N844AA : If I recall correctly, the 150k thread was posted yesterday. Today that figure was revised to 175k. In any event, it looks like Skybus started sellin
49 Richierich : Do you really think the $10 passengers are going to spring for the Marriott? I'm thinking the $39 Econolodge or the $0 CMH bench... If they are banki
50 Xpfg : No, it was posted 4 days ago, three if you don't want to count the day of reporting it. That equates to 6,250 sales a day, not 25,000. Which also mea
51 Post contains images N844AA : Wow, I was way off. I hereby retract that statement and apologize for spreading incorrect information. Still, if they have sold two full months of fu
52 Post contains images BlueElephant : I have to say though..I think that its a great strategy if they do know what they're doing....then they're all sitting back..and laughing at us, sayi
53 Itsnotfinals : Only if you can magically teleport from the terminal to the train station and get a train without waiting even one minute. PLus the ISP terminal is n
54 ANother : Actually - the AOL is only one requirement, there are others such as participating in MITA, or other interline agreements. Don't have my IATA PSC man
55 Post contains links Tbolt1 : From the Columbus Dispatch: "Skybus Airlines made it more attractive to tens of thousands of travelers last week to book flights from Port Columbus t
56 Clickhappy : Any word on FAA approval? I assume it won't be happening today, which means Monday at the earliest. Only 15 days until their first scheduled flight. F
57 BlueElephant : Tbolt1, I recall hearing that 7 more routes/destinations/flight segments were to be announced before operations start. If only 2 of them are out of c
58 N844AA : Funny you bring that up. I didn't have the figures in front of me, but I was trying to work something out earlier. I remembered reading 3000 seats a
59 Avianca707359B : From the "Hotels" tab at Skybus.com: Select a Destination: Boston Columbus Fort Lauderdale Greensboro Kansas City Los Angeles Miami Norfolk Oakland Ra
60 Tbolt1 : May 10 target date
61 Tbolt1 : I have heard another base will definitly be established by year's end....of course, this came from someone a little further down the food chain...so
62 Dsa : The LON market is highly competitive, look at how many airlines operate ALC, BCN and CDG services. People will always have the impression that because
63 MAH4546 : Not skewed at all. The "northern suburbs of Miami" themselves are only 15 minutes from downtown Miami. Ft. Lauderdale is nothing more than a giant su
64 Itsnotfinals : XX/YY vx. YY/XX same as a=b , b=c therefore a=c, this is simple logic from 4th grade, if having Boston first or second implies mass hysteria and conf
65 MAH4546 : Your inability to realize the obvious difference, and instead trying to justify it with irrelevant algebra, is shared with most of America, which is
66 Post contains links and images Itsnotfinals : I sure hope you are not a business strategist or consultant if all you need to make a decision is half baked information from Anet   If said custome
67 MAH4546 : I'm giving an opinion. The same way you feel that Skybus will succeede, I feel they will fail. It is an opinion. I'm not being paid to make an opinio
68 Itsnotfinals : But that's where you're wrong, I have never endorsed Skybus or said they would be successful, I have just been trying to point out that no one has en
69 Derik737 : I've heard that they still have some issues to be worked out and that May 22 is tight. Hope they will get it up and running so these first customers
70 MAH4546 : I have also lived in Europe for extended periods of times and I realize that. Though that isn't something unique to Europe. Very few US airports are
71 Tornado82 : Those armchair CEO's were right about FlyI. They were also right in that B6 is currently operating in the red while most everyone else is in the blac
72 Tbolt1 : I don't think the FAA at this point is going to deny certification unless something major goes wrong....any small issues that come up in the proving
73 Cubsrule : But how many other airlines have we killed off here on a.net? US has been as good as dead according to many on here a couple of times, and they're do
74 Itsnotfinals : DL ,NW and UA were also doomed on A.net also over the last 3 years or so.
75 Wjcandee : Thanks, Dave. I haven't. I will. I know that peoplExpress was having some other expansion issues beyond Frontier, although as one who watched the com
76 Logos : That I believe and that's the point that Skybus needs to get to to sustain itself. The difference is that Ryanair was able to establish that reputati
77 Poitin : Fine, that is who I would expect to hear it from, but why should I believe you without a PUBLISHED reference? From what I can see, you are the origin
78 Tbolt1 : Yes, I do know A LOT about Skybus. How? Maybe I work there? Maybe my friends work there? Maybe my sister works in HR? Anet. will never know because I
79 Post contains links Tbolt1 : Ahem, I present exhibit "A". http://www.adaptive-gse.com/narrow-wide-body-ramps.htm
80 N844AA : Publicity. Marketing. Using their success thus far to build more success. Same reason they publicized their figures last week after having sold ticke
81 UnknownUser : Who are these FA's they have that are working for $9/hr that will be ready then? Wow, that's awful arrogant of you. I choose to keep my identity secr
82 UnknownUser : " target=_blank>http://www.adaptive-gse.com/narrow-w...s.htm Ummm yea, that's great, but where does it say Skybus is using it?
83 Tornado82 : I wouldn't be surprised if they never even take a flight.
84 Tbolt1 : I've lost credibility with you? Oh my gosh, well let me go ahead and divulge everything then! Geez, I'm going to lose sleep at night now cause you do
85 Tbolt1 : Why would it need to be published that they are using it? I'm just telling you that's what they'll be using. I can't cite any sources other than the
86 Tbolt1 : So the FAA has been wasting their time everyday by sitting in the OCC, and on the proving run flights just so they can deny Skybus their certificate?
87 UnknownUser : I have a hard time believing that. You would have to piss someone off pretty badly to have them "destroy your career." Besides, airliners consists of
88 Tornado82 : Who said they wouldn't fly because of the FAA?
89 Gsoflyer : There should be more than enough college traffic in GSO and the area to support the airlines. Elon at 5200, Wake Forest at 4700, High Point at 3200,
90 Tornado82 : College students only travel the airlines for breaks and semester changes. Who's going to support flights the other, oh, 360 days of the year? Colleg
91 Post contains images Lightsaber : Ugh... why is it with every new LCC this is brought up? PE was a case study in why lack of computerization would doom a company. PE was also a case s
92 MAH4546 : Why do people think colleges create demand for air travel? They don't. Especially in North Carolina where such a large part of the college community
93 Cubsrule : I don't think you can make that generalization. There are some schools where it's true, and others where >50% of students are from outside the southe
94 Logos : I'm assuming when you saide PE, you meant to say Skybus. Sorry if you don't like the People Express comparison, but I find it valid simply because th
95 Post contains links MAH4546 : I disagree. At state schools, obviously, we already know a significant majority, often 80-90%, are in-state. At Elon, 52% of the students come from o
96 Cubsrule : Not arguing with any of your numbers, but a lot of my friends who are from the D.C. area or Baltimore do fly home rather than deal with horrendous tr
97 Post contains images Lightsaber : Yea... I am agreeing with you. I see the US ripe for the FR model... However, it requires getting service off the ground. So I'll be curious to see h
98 Gsoflyer : Tell that to Southwest and Amtrak. So you even know the demographics of NC universities? Nearly all of NC's private schools have less than 25% of stu
99 Cubsrule : I don't think that's true either. Here at one of NC's more prestigious private colleges, we're about 60/40 (more from outside the southeast). Duke (C
100 Logos : Whatever the truth is here, it doesn't change the fact that you can't build a profitable airline strictly on college student traffic or even having i
101 Tornado82 : And they'll agree with me. Amtrak is just a government bureaucracy, they'll stop in a college town if the railroad happens to be going through it jus
102 Cubsrule : College students are not inherently better or worse customers than anyone else. But from a carrier's point of view, one thing to keep in mind about c
103 Logos : I don't deny that Skybus will get their share of OSU students (as long as they're in business), but their public statements are to the effect that th
104 Itsnotfinals : None of their public statements say anything about OSU being their "main" source of revenue.
105 Logos : I didn't say "the" main, I said one of the main. In defense of that, I offer... Seems like they're counting on it for a good chunk. Or maybe they're
106 Tornado82 : If you throw a pile of BS against the wall, some will splatter, and some will stick. Looks as if Skybus is getting quite good at slinging BS.
107 MAH4546 : 46% of Elon's class comes from three states in the South (NC, FL, and VA). Wake Forrst is heavily made of students from the South. Duke is even biase
108 Tornado82 : Amen brother, Amen.
109 Post contains images N844AA : I've been thinking for the last day or two, and there's something I want to say. I've probably been as critical, and sometimes derisive, of the Skybus
110 Post contains links Poitin : I would say to to many of us, you come over as some 16-year-old sitting at a computer pretending. This may or may not be the case, but that is the wa
111 Itsnotfinals : it's over 175,000 now.
112 Jacobin777 : ...that's nice, but how much money are they making (or losing) on these ticket sales and how long will this "surge" in "hype" last?
113 Itsnotfinals : I don't know and I really don't care just answering a question. The vitriol against Skybus just keeps on going.
114 Mnevans : My two cents on this. The day that they started selling fares, I bought 2 for my friend and I to visit a friend in Boston for the weekend. Being able
115 Tbolt1 : I am stating facts and not opinions....I'm sorry if I can't provide sources to back up my statements....you can either choose to believe I have close
116 Jacobin777 : ...while there might be some "vitriol" against Skybus, don't confuse people criticizing Skybus for having a bad business plan versus "vitriol"..two d
117 Richierich : As a consumer, nobody is saying that $10 fares are anything less than fantastic. Of course they are amazing and it will make people buy tickets almos
118 Dsa : I think everyone knows who Mr. T is, Skybus has publicised it's low fares and cost cutting exercises so most passengers will know the drill. DS
119 Itsnotfinals : Since their actual business plan is not published and everything on this board is pure speculation, negative assumptive wrangling, and in general "I
120 Clickhappy : Did Skybus get their FAA cert yet?
121 Cubsrule : I doubt many people hope they fail. There are airlines I hate and will not fly, but more choices are good for all consumers.
122 MAH4546 : You need to learn the obvious difference between "their business model is not going to work in the US market" and "I hope they fail". Their business
123 Poitin : Let's assume what you say is true and honest, and all that. You are disclosing company confidential information over a public forum without the expli
124 Post contains images Clickhappy : You forgot one part, tbolt1 is posting on A.net with permission He joined up to promote Skybus. Nothing wrong with that.
125 Poitin : If that is the case, let him say so. I don't have a problem with him saying stuff, as long as what he says is according to the rules (particularly nu
126 Jacobin777 : ..I remember that drama.....also, there was an employee here for Virgin America (part of route or fleet planning, or advertising IIRC..something alon
127 Logos : That's a little over the top, don't you think. Just because their actual business plan is not published it doesn't mean that there is no information
128 Tbolt1 : Well, there has never been anything given to me that the information I choose to disclose is confidential. Frankly, I don't see how anything I have di
129 Cubsrule : Frankly, my friends, we cannot have our cake and eat it too. Some parts of the business plan are public and some are nto. There's no use arguing abou
130 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : Not really. Maybe I am trying to make A.net more thoughtful with the comment though. Maybe 50% of what they are planning has been discussed here or d
131 Cubsrule : I think that's fair. But we can make some basic statements. RASM has to exceed CASM. Their CASM will be darn low. The question, though, is whether th
132 Post contains links Avianca707359B : Here's the latest on hiring activities and ticket sales: http://www.columbusdispatch.com/disp...S.ART_ART_05-09-07_C8_1O6KNTQ.html
133 Logos : " target=_blank>http://www.columbusdispatch.com/disp....html Fair enough - it's now 200k tickets. I would consider that independent confirmation of ti
134 Clickhappy : The average full-time employee will make $40,000 to $43,000, he said. Are the FA's not full time employees?
135 Logos : I think that's their spin that the FA's will make that with the commissions factored in. Or maybe they're not considered "average". Cheers, Dave in O
136 Poitin : Tbolt1, unless you are an officer of the company -- that is CEO, President, VP or such, you may NOT say anything to anybody according to the SEC rule
137 Clickhappy : what does the SEC have to do with anything? Are Skybus on the clock with regards to securities?
138 Poitin : You can assume that Skybus will not remain a subchapter S corporation if they are. I don't know that they are subchapter S or not, but if they have m
139 Post contains images Clickhappy : Sure, they might go public at some point, but they haven't announced anything like that yet, so why would the SEC care what an employee says about sai
140 ATLAaron : Nothing too exciting but I was at CMH today boarding my US Airways flight to PHX at gate 22 when I looked over and saw the SkyBus Nationwide aircraft
141 Mir : During the week? With the right fares, Skybus could fill as many flights as they want to with OSU students to FLL for the weekend, but that still lea
142 Gregarious119 : Just these last couple days, all the stations in Dayton have been airing Skybus adds. Most of them that I've heard are adverstising the GSO and MCI r
143 Itsnotfinals : Considering the parent company of the Dispatch is one of the investors in Skybus, I would expect more Skybus reporting than for any other airline in
144 BlueElephant : Sorry Bro, but if you wanted to take photos of advertisements...you'd have noticed the 2 billboards right on the International Gateway. And there are
145 Tbolt1 : I've seen photos of one that supposedly runs the whole length of one of the skyscrapers in Downtown Columbus.
146 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : some reference for the questioning anet masses. 200,000 tickets confirmed again http://www.airportbusiness.com/onlin...article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=11
147 Flybulldog : I've seen photos of one that supposedly runs the whole length of one of the skyscrapers in Downtown Columbus. I'm looking at that add out of my office
148 FCYTravis : Heh, I like that. Sure, the planes are "big" outside, but inside, the seating is squeezed two inches tighter than the worst seat on a Colgan 19-seat
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