OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 28292 times:
More conflicting info on the location of the crash site. One report says 6 miles from the airport; another report says 18 miles.
Here are two Google Earth captures for each distance from the airport. The airport is in the upper left hand corner, and the respective 6/18 mile distance runs due east, so you can make your own arc... Let the photo analysis begin...
Antskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 887 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 28218 times:
The Australian reports that wreckage was found only 20Km SE of DLA.
Quote: the wreckage of the plane has been located in the small village of Mbanga Pongo, in the Douala III subdivision. We are putting in place rescue measures," Cameroon's Minister of State for Territorial Administration Hamidou Yaya Marafa said.
"For now we cannot say whether there were any survivors or not. Access to the area is very difficult," he said. "We are beginning a new painful phase. Our task will be more difficult now, the task of recovering the corpses." An aviation official said a ground team was at the site and a search party was trying to reach the area by helicopter. It was more than 100km from the zone where radar-equipped helicopters, ground search parties and villagers on motorbikes had spent much of the weekend combing thick tropical forest. Kenya Airways Group Managing Director Titus Naikuni said in Nairobi that local fishermen had led rescuers to the crash site. "We are told the aircraft was covered by a canopy of trees, and that was the delay in sighting the crash site," he said.
ETFokker50 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 28015 times:
There's enough water in that area for a plane to crash, it looks like. But it looks more like a river to me than a swamp, though that is hard to tell. I guess that the area between the rivers isn't exactly dry either. 20km is not much though. I regret to have to say this is sounding more and more like the last KQ crash - except there the impact was into the sea, but also very shortly after takeoff!
Omoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 27942 times:
The kenyan Standard reporting Wreckage found 60 Miles from the airport.
A Kenya Airways plane that went missing with 114 passengers and crew on board has been located.
The airline’s CEO, Mr Titus Naikuni, confirmed last night that Flight KQ 507 from Douala to Nairobi had been located in a mangrove swamp 20km southeast of Douala.
Naikuni said there was no confirmed information on survivors or any possible casualties.
The aircraft was more than 100 km (60 miles) away from the zone where radar-equipped helicopters, ground search parties and villagers on motorbikes had spent much of Saturday and Sunday combing thick tropical forest.
Naikuni said the search and rescue operation was still in progress and the KQ team was at the accident scene.
The CEO said the rescue team, led by Cameroonian authorities, had relied on the information given by local fishermen to locate the wreckage.
A dispatch posted on the airline’s website had earlier said fishermen reported hearing a loud bang "that was accompanied by significant water disturbance".
Legoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3303 posts, RR: 42 Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 27917 times:
Quoting Antskip (Reply 3): the wreckage of the plane has been located in the small village of Mbanga Pongo,
If the crash is near the village and not actually on top of the village then perhaps if there were any survivors, the villagers may have been able to help, despite their lack of basic resources.
Quoting Antskip (Reply 3): Group Managing Director Titus Naikuni said in Nairobi that local fishermen had led rescuers to the crash site. "We are told the aircraft was covered by a canopy of trees, and that was the delay in sighting the crash site,"
Could this mean a shallow crash angle, thus meaning trees ended up covering the crash spot?
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
RichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 795 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 27193 times:
Quoting Flighty (Reply 8): This sounds like a scenario where some people could survive.
I'd like to know what makes you think this. I am unable to think of any positive factors here, which makes me question why you see signs of hope. It all looks pretty grim to me. (Based mainly on common sense and simple logic)
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7904 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 27122 times:
Quoting RichM (Reply 10): I'd like to know what makes you think this. I am unable to think of any positive factors here,
We don't have any terrible factors either. We only know the jet went down in a swampy area, right? Do we know the speed at impact? If it's 110 knots, we might have survivors, but I agree, probably not. But it's worth sending rescuers. Even if you survive, the jungle might kill you in a few days. Or if you need medical care, much more quickly.
Philb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 26997 times:
Whilst there is still a great deal of confusion surrounding the actual location the proximity to the airpiort of the currently reported site(s)compared to previously quoted locations would, if proved true and given the weather conditions, militate for a windshear/microburst accident during climb.
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 26 Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 26042 times:
I am not a meteorologist, but looking at the stock Google satellite imagery, and the Popcorn effect of the clouds, reiterates that the environment here is hot, and damp, which If I am not mistaken, are the perfect conditions for microburst and windshear events. And just look at how many there are, how is an aircraft, any aircraft, supposed to run that gauntlet at the altitude the Kenya flight would have been.
It could go from calm, to all hell breaking loose weather-wise, in a matter of meters, let alone kilometers.
I wonder what the altitude should have been at 12.5km out?
I was on the LBJ approaching the International Pkwy when the DL 1011 went down......a big boy helpless against nature.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 25608 times:
Quoting Omoo (Reply 6): The kenyan Standard reporting Wreckage found 60 Miles from the airport.
Quoting EMA747 (Reply 13): White line shows 20km South of Douala airport.
6, 18, 12.5, now 60 miles. I channel-hopped the 10pm news here plus CNN, and heard them all, along with south, south-southeast, and southeast of the airport. Until some authortative source reports a lat-lon, I'd forget about the media...
Quoting Philb (Reply 12): a windshear/microburst accident during climb.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 25566 times:
Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 15): Ok, I read one report where it says the flight was carrying a flight engineer? No offense, but why? The computers onboard a 738 take out the need for one, are you sure this isn't a 732?
In many parts of the world, the "flight engineer" in this context is a mechanic who travels with the aircraft, usually in the cockpit jumpseat. He has no duties inflight (that I'm aware of), but is along to handle fueling during the turn, and be available to fix anything that breaks.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 25169 times:
The flight engineer was apparently dead-heading back to Nairobi. He was not listed as an official crew member.
Also, while I applaud the optimism some have on this site for finding survivors, I seriously doubt we will find any.
Something happened to the aircraft that made it impossible to return to Douala. No pilot would risk crash landing in the dark into unknown terrain, when the airport was only 20 km away.
Like many, I hope that the aircraft miraculously made a planned landing into swampy territory, and that the fuselage is intact with survivors waiting for rescue inside, but I remain pessimistic. In all likelihood, it slammed into the swamp and shattered both itself and its human cargo into a million bits.
Antskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 887 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 24510 times:
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19): Like many, I hope that the aircraft miraculously made a planned landing into swampy territory, and that the fuselage is intact with survivors waiting for rescue inside, but I remain pessimistic.
It appears from sketchy reports that the KQ team has been at the crash site for hours, so it is very unlikely that there have been survivors. If there were any, surely that is the first communication that would have come out of there!
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 23897 times:
I was just checking CBS News homepage this morning and there was a report from a US pilot called Patrick Smith saying, and I quote - "Whatever happened, must have happened very fast which is usually a sign of catastrophic structural faillure....a plane never takes off into a thunderstorm, no crew or carrier would allow that. But it is remotely possible that the plane could have inadvertently gonne into some extremely turbulent air and suffered massive hail damage or a sudden structural faillure."
This kind of a good information, specially taking in mind that the plane crashed around 20 kms from the airport, so that was a mere few minutes after take-off and coincides with the information given by Douala Airport Control, that they lost contact shortly after take off~.
Omoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 23644 times:
An update on the situation in Cameroon:
Released on 6 / 5 / 2007: 22:00hrs
Kenya Airways regrets to confirm that its flight KQ 507 from Douala to Nairobi has been located on a mangrove swamp, 20km South-East of Douala, on the planned flight path.
The aircraft was a Boeing 737 - 800. At this time, search and rescue operations are in progress and we have no confirmed information about survivors or any possible casualties. The search and rescue team which includes the KQ team is still at the accident scene.
25 CV990: Hi! OPMLguy, don't you think what that pilot said is relevant? At this point all the information is good and of course speculative...until they analys
26 Lxlgu: According to News 24- pieces of wreckage found are no bigger than a car door Rescuers found a seat and body parts in the muddy crash area Rest in peac
27 Brenintw: BBC is reporting that there are no survivors. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6631507.stm May the passengers RIP. [Edit for spelling error.][Edited
28 Antskip: The Washington Post reports that the Cameroon's civil protection service claims there is no chance of survivors - the plane wreck is almost entirely
29 Brenintw: Right now, it's about 3 hours into the morning there (assuming sun-up was 6 am LT).
30 Antskip: Oops! You are quite right. (blush) Plenty of daylight there now! It's 93.36 am there now, and dawn was at 6.02 am, with dusk (it's quick) at 6.19 pm,
31 Philb: It didn't specifically occur to me at the time I posted but the scenario - heavy thunderstorms and shifting winds - would be similar What!!!! The his
32 OPNLguy: Not particularly. ..except that there's virtually no "information" out there... He could have just as easily said that a meteor or a piece of space j
33 CV990: Hi! Well it looks that Cap.Patrick Smith even beeing a pilot is misleading some good people ( like me...)! Regards
34 GFFgold: Bear in mind that equatorial mangrove swamp is nothing like the soft peat bogs of northern lattitudes. Many mangrove trees are big and very, very toug
35 LTBEWR: Looking at the posts of our armchair investigators here, it is highly possible that a combination of factors may have contributed to this accident, mo
36 EMA747: Source: http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/news...e.asp?newsid=2185&newscategoryid=1 Sounds like survivours are very unlikely. If this report is accurat
37 EIRules: I know I am going to get totally flamed for asking this, and Im not saying it as an accusation just as something that has been running through my mind
38 A3: I hope not............... The total loss of almost band new B737s raises questions , as you have mentioned there are issues concerning some parts of
39 Pilotaydin: you answered your own question in a way....i fly the 737 and there is nothing wrong with it whatsoever, the 737 is a short-medium haul aircraft, so i
40 EIRules: I understand that the 737 has far more cycles than say a 747, but it is compartive to say an A320 or 321 and they dont seem to have the same accident
41 CV990: Hi! We have much more 737's than A320/A321!!! I was just thinking about KQ introducing the 738...KQ have quite a good record with 737's, flying the Cl
42 OPNLguy: That remains to be seen (literally), should they discover multiple wreckage sites or not. When Valujet 592 went into the Everglades, this is what the
43 Pilotaydin: remember the 737-100 + models came out way before airbus tried to even compete with that range of model, the airbus A320-100 onwards has been highly
44 CV990: Hi Pilotaydin! Very, very interesting your explanation ( at least for me...) the way both 737's handle, thanks very much. By the way, flying with the
45 Pilotaydin: hey there ive been to LIS several times but unfortunately we don't overnight, the approach is beautiful if you come to IST though always glad to get
46 CV990: Hi! Dear friend....pitty...but next time you come let me know...I'll be in the runway heading and will take a picture of your 738 landing at LIS! Yes,
47 EMA747: So what do you do to turn and descend etc? Is this also the case with the -700? I'm guessing it's not such a problem with the -600 as it's a lot smal
48 Jaysit: Is this any different for a 738 with winglets? Or does a 738 with or without winglets perform in a similar fashion in such an instance?
49 Pilotaydin: Well if you're turning you change the rudder pressure and that banks the plane over for you, you CAN add a LITTLE aileron but it's tricky..... the wi
50 StealthZ: Check out the stats of B737 built since 1988 and A320(18/19/21) and the facts are not all that complementary to the Airbus. Production roughly 3870/3
51 NA: Yes, but there is a big BUT: Of about 5300+ 737s 134 (more than 1 out of 40) were lost, out of 3000+ A320 family airplanes just 17 (1 out of 176)! So
52 CV990: Hi! NA, you showed numbers and you did a wonderfull statistic exercise, so who am I to argue??? Numbers don't lie right? So I have to say that indeed
53 Hoya: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is only the 2nd fatal crash/hull loss of a 737NG, with the first being the GOL 738 inflight collision over B
54 787EWR: You probably should consider that there are over 6,000 737's flying around the world. I don't know the exact number of A-320, or A-319s, but I know t
55 EMA747: This is not a very (at all!) scientific analysis but if you search the images on here it come out like this: Africa - A320 family = 216 B737 = 1484 S
56 Ncelhr: Very interesting. Do you mean to say that it is harder to fly a 738? And by this account, is a 738 more dangerous to fly?
57 Gr8Circle: They've just about located the crash site and not yet got the black box and CVR.....isn't it too early to start speculating on the performance of the
58 Andz: That's a dodgy statement, SAA have 11 319-100s. Not even remotely close to 216, or is that 216 photos?
59 EMA747: Very sad,but only conferms what we thought. This could be totally wrong but interesting no the less. If a plane was hit by lightning what would happe