Bill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8480 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12183 times:
Quoting TG992 (Thread starter): Industry chit-chat within airline staff has it that Air Tahiti Nui is in big financial trouble, with consistently bad loads on their longhaul flights, and the government pulling funding.
One insider very very close to the action has given TN a year at most before they fold.
Well they rely on mainly tourists which isn't exactly going to be high yeilding. I don't think TN will go under as France will continue to prop them up as they're a vital link to the south pacific from France.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26834 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12130 times:
ATN has always been a loss leader for the islands since its launch. Financial support to prop the carrier has strong armed out of many island industries and the local government whom was insistent on its creation many will say for ego reasons.
At some point I would suspect people and companies will question the wisdom and ability to continue supporting a loss making operation year after year.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
SCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11983 times:
Man. When I flew them, LAX-PPT, the A340s were sardine-can full- there was even one revenue passenger sitting on the jump seat in the back, next to the galley. immediately across from the lav door. Very close to the lav door.
While waiting to get my turn at the loo, I asked her what airline she worked for, presuming she was non-revving. She told me that she was not non-rev- that she had paid for the seat.
Imagine sitting on a jump-seat for a 13 hour flight.
But back on-topic, I surely hope TN can survive, as I was quite pleased with their service.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
EWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11913 times:
Quoting SCCutler (Reply 7): Imagine sitting on a jump-seat for a 13 hour flight.
Been there, done that. Nothing new.
As a paying passenger (and potential non a,netter) I'd be mad as hell. As a jumpseat occupant, you cannot sleep on them, you are technically not allowed to read non-company materials, etc.. Kind of a crappy way to get revenue, if she was in fact, revenue.
Tomascubero From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2005, 527 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11572 times:
I wouldn't be surprised since I've heard the same thing about their planes being quite empty, mostly from the JFK-PPT flight which I should think have the lowest yields in passengers. (BTW have they dropped this flight? It seems so since I can't see it in the Flightaware recent arrivals to NTAA). Its really a shame if this does happen, they are a great airline with an awesome paint scheme, nice flight crew and very nice people in the administration, they were really nice to me in regards of information when F-OLOV visited SJO last November on an Around the World charter, provided me with the whole schedule of that charter as well.
ERJ135 From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 695 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11450 times:
Interesting, I'll be flying them in August and had to delay departure due to non availability of seats, also had to return 4 days later than planned for the same reason. Seems the loads vary greatly on different days. Would be sad to see them go as the offer an interesting alternative across the pacific.
AerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7504 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11045 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 17): TN's loads on AKL-PPT aren't the worst, not sure about inbound, atleast what I hear.
I check them in, and loads are always pretty good out of AKL, except for select days in the low season when all loads are low. The loads are often oversold in Y/J, but obviously that is only one route.
AOMlover From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11042 times:
ATN is the toy of the Polynesian government. LAX-PPT is by far the best performing route of the airline. Anyway, ATN was not created to make money, even though it was not created to lose that much money either.
FlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7467 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10986 times:
As AOMliver said, ATN is a typical political airline, created to "please" and calm down the local Independantists power and to "buy" the social peace.
ATN will have endless financial backing by the French Gov. and the local authorities,as it is also the toy of the politician Gaston Flosse, ex-good friend of J.Chirac and the biggest mafioso in all the Pacific.
Do you think it is economically justified for an island like Tahiti to have so many airlines, including ATN who keeps ALL the non profitable routes (like PPT-JFK) just for prestige ? Well, as long as taxpayers pay and don't complain ...
JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10809 times:
There is nothing wrong in creating an airline to bring in tourist in your country. Dubai did the same, although with a little more success.
The problem I see with NT is that they lack the critical mass to establish PPT as a hub in the pacific.
To stop bleeding money it might help to stop flying to destinations where other carriers already have flights. It was a fairly dump move by them to push NZ off the LAX route. NZ offered a nice stop-over possibility for everybody from between UK / USA and NZ / OZ. And NZ had a very good sales organizations in Europe and North America.
And for the biggest market to the French motherland there still is AF.
The other markets OZ and NZ were also well covered by NZ. And to South America there is LAN.
so the only market that is really missing is East Asia, especially Japan. Here TN is really needed to bring in wealthy Japanese tourists. But wouldn't it be cheaper for French Polynesia to give incentives for anyone offering flights to Japan than having this expensive airline?
: Interesting responses so far. What I've heard is that the number of tourists TN is managing to attract don't justify the enormous cost in keeping TN r
: Can they not take advantage of this type of contractual arrangement in other markets as well?? A very nice airline. Great service, and very nice A-34
: I'd like to flesh out my earlier response a little. French Polynesia is highly dependent upon tourism, and the pull-outs of Qantas, Pan Am and Contine
: Even if TN was 100% full, are there enough hotel rooms in Tahiti to accomodate them? Why doesn't AF just drop the route and codeshare on TN? No reaso
: Air France and Air Tahiti Nui both make large profits on the Los Angeles to Papeete route, which is why AF is not pulling out. Air Tahiti Nui gets alm
: Was the ATN flights half empty or half full? That is a common expression, used rhetorically to indicate that a particular situation could be a cause f
: In fact AF discontinued the codeshare with TN since 2006/07 Winter timetable.
: Is the AF flight supported by the government as well?
: Probably the big money loser for TN has been the JFK to/from PPT route. While the LAX route has been superb, this was a very poor route (JFK) planned
: The solutions for ATN to eventually become a "real" airline and try to become profitable are : - Stop PPT-JFK and all those nonsense routes. - initiat
: I think they should focus only on LAX ( maybe some other west coast city too) and Australian cities. Air Tahiti Nui offers great service, way better t
36 Flying Belgian
: What about that rumour about a swap for a YVR stop for PPT-CDG instead of LAX ? At that time some were talking about the U.S transit visa policy that
: It still costs NZ$300+ to do RAR-PPT return and flights to Bora Bora on top of that. Your previous posts in other threads suggested Bora Bora is a de
: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Canada/France bilateral doesn't allow for YVR-CDG flights. It only allows YUL/YYZ flights. TN just focused on the nu
: JFK and CDG are the two flights which are too long for Air Tahiti Nui. Flying in the Pacific is fine to Japan, Australia, New Zealand and the USA's we
: Which is why many suggest SFO, YVR and even SEA as possibilities.
: Correct. French airlines have a "free" access to the East Coast airports (frequencies, seat capacity) but not to the West part, though I think it cou
: If ATN could do some kind of trade in with Airbus for some A330-200, this could help them save money in the long run. Yes, the A330-200 has less seats
: There's already a PPT-SCL flight operated by LAN with a stop at Easter Island.
: TN signed a codeshare/marketing deal with DL in 2004, but I never heard anything about it after the initial press release. DL would codeshare with TN
: If so, as a Skyteam partner and member, DL would codeshare with AF on LAX-PPT, rather than ATN
: I also think developing Papeete itself should be a major priority. What is there that really attracts people? The city is in an awful state, crime is
: I agree. They used to have an A340-200, which has comparable range to the -300E (8000nm vs 7400nm), just less seating (239 vs 295). Engine maintenanc
: Air Tahiti Nui has always been a long time momey looser(Close to shutdown in 1998).They have never been created to be profitable but just to be around
: What attracts tourists into French Polynesia is definitely not the island of Tahiti herself, but rather Moorea, Bora Bora, Huahine, Raiatea, Rangiroa,
: I guess that is why AF is notably absent at YVR. I think that YVR would be a very good flight to PPT for TN, going 3x per week and 4x to SFO. While i
: Now that DL has emphasized that they want to expand into the Pacific, primarily from LAX, we might see this happen. DL JFK-LAX TN LAX-PPT
: I might add that's there's already been a flight between SF bay area and Tahiti...Corsair used to send its 747-200/300/SP on the ORY-OAK-PPT route. I
: Exactly Tahiti - A little bit of heaven on earth.
: Assume 13 hours is a typo. LAX-PPT usually takes 8.5 hrs. Still a long time on a jump seat!
: I know, but it is the first (and for many people) the only port of call for most tourists to French Polynesia. The French and French Polynesian gover
: They allow someone that doesn't have door training to sit in a jump seat? How is that legal?
: ATN is also a beneficiary of bad timing in the inferior operating economics of the A340 against twin engine planes. Look at Air New Zealand with all t
: My point is that a RAR-BOB direct flight would cut out the need to even transit Tahiti. Imagine you are a frequent Air Canada, US Airways or United fl
: So Bora Bora could handle an A318 or even 320? In this case an NZ flight AKL-RAR-Bora with direct connection to the AKL-RAR-LAX flight might be good i
: No, as already said by FlySSC, why would DL code-share with TN on LAX-PPT ? as AF is also operating the same route. I remind you that AF & DL are bot
: Bora Bora has been mentioned as a high yielding destinations. And it is with probably about 300 rooms that cost over $700 per night. But Tahiti in ge
: As someone mentioned earlier why doesn't TN use PPT as a hub for traffic connecting between South America and Japan? This was an extremely successful
: Tahiti is a very expensive exotic, niche destination. Getting there from key tourist draws has been the bain of the resort and hotel operators for ye
: Probably the most accurate statement on this thread. As were the 4 legs we flew on. Exactly. TN afforded us the interest and opportunity to see Tahit
: Actually, RoseFlyer should know that Bora Bora and Taha'a combined will by 2009 have over 1000 rooms selling for over US$1000, with around 200 of them
66 Travelin man
: We flew TN last August LAX-PPT-AKL (and stopped over in Tahiti on the way home). LAX-PPT (and PPT-LAX) were filled to capacity. There were a LOT of em