Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies  
User currently offlineSA744 From South Africa, joined Nov 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

Good day all

Rumours going around the aviation circle is that the following airlines are seriously considering JNB as a destination:

Korean airlines (to start nov 07)
American airlines
Jet airways
Aer lingus
Air canada (but it is BIG maybe only if bilaterals agrrements are changed)

British airways to go 3 times daily
Virgin to go double daily
Emirates to go 3 times daily
Etihad to go daily with A330-200's

Please confirm if you have any more details thanking you

SA744

Do you think we will see the following at JNB

Asiana airlines
ANA
Eva air
Phillipine
and anything else

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4833 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

Out of your above mentioned list only Jet Airways, Emirates and Etihad have confirmed their JNB plans rest are all speculation at this point.

User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):

Also to note QF will add 6 additional flights to JNB during the southern summer on the following dates
- 8, 15 and 22 December 2007
- 5, 12 and 19 January 2008
Routing will be SYD-PER-JNB-PER-SYD which will be operated by the B743


User currently offlineLxlgu From South Africa, joined Sep 2000, 1085 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Hi SAA 744

Emirates go triple daily from 1 July

EK 765 DXB JNB 1440/2050

EK 766 JNB DXB 2230/0830

Etihad go daily from 1 August but will downgrade from 777 to 332

Turkish to start 16 September-flight plan not yet out

Cheers!
Tony


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
British airways to go 3 times daily
Virgin to go double daily

No chance - the bilateral doesn't allow it as far as I'm aware. They would like more flights but the bilaterals won't change until the SA government realise that slot allocation at LHR has nothing do to with the UK government and it cannot tie down extra slots at the times that SAA wants at LHR as part of any bilateral agreement.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineLxlgu From South Africa, joined Sep 2000, 1085 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

Effective 9 JUL JNB SAO goes twice daily on MON/THU/SAT

Extra flight is SA224 JNBGRU 1420/1950

SA225 GRUJNB 2230/1200

Cheers!
Tony


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Air canada (but it is BIG maybe only if bilaterals agrrements are changed)

Is this a new rumour, or the same old rumour that's been circulating since the mid 80's??

The ongoing rumours have included:

YYZ/ZRH/JNB (Just because)
YYZ/FRA/JNB (Allegdly nixed by LH because of Star Alliance overlap/conflicts)
YYZ/MAD/JNB(Saving the on again/off again YYZ-MAD route)
YYZ/LIS/JNB (Inclusion of TAP with Star Alliance)
YYZ/MIA/JNB (Revised Canada/US Bilaterals foolowing in the footsteps of YYZ/LAX/SYD)
YYZ/JNB (With the once assumed increase of A345's)
YYZ/JNB (Resurrected with the 77L announcement)



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineABC9 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 203 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5681 times:

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Aer lingus

There's ben some talk of CPT alright but little mention of JNB. If it's to happen at all it won't be soon - EI are about to receive 2 new 330s but they are already committed to 3 new US destinations. A long haul order is expected in the coming weeks (although we've been saying that for 6 months now) and there may be an announcement of new routes but they aren't going to start for at least 12 months I'd wager. There is significant Irish investment in Capetown property which would possibly make that route viable and if you're going that far, why not add a stop in JNB where there would be a chance of some business traffic (if that doesn't sound too flippant).


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5647 times:

You left out TK, TK is planning to restart service from IST with the A330-200, per another thread on here. Here is a link confirming that TK will be back in Sept, continuing on to CPT.

http://www.thy.com/en-INT/corporate/skylife/article.aspx?mkl=402

I can't imagine either EI or AC flying to JNB. While a 77L might be able to make it to JNB from YYZ, who is going to be filling it? It seems to me that AC has much more profitable places to put their aircraft... and of course you'd need to revise the bilateral treaty. If AC were go 5th Freedom through MIA, that might make sense, but again, the treaty, so at this point, it sounds like pie in the sky to me.

As for EI, they are strapped for long-haul aircraft and are planning to use every one they can get their hands on for their ambitious North American expansion plans. I don't think JNB is on their radar at the moment.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 6):

YYZ/ZRH/JNB (Just because)
YYZ/FRA/JNB (Allegdly nixed by LH because of Star Alliance overlap/conflicts)
YYZ/MAD/JNB(Saving the on again/off again YYZ-MAD route)
YYZ/LIS/JNB (Inclusion of TAP with Star Alliance)
YYZ/MIA/JNB (Revised Canada/US Bilaterals foolowing in the footsteps of YYZ/LAX/SYD)
YYZ/JNB (With the once assumed increase of A345's)
YYZ/JNB (Resurrected with the 77L announcement)

I can't imagine why AC would put their aircraft on this route over others... plus, treaties...



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Flyglobespan will operate twice weekly MAN-JNB from 01/10/07 to 30/03/08, Thursday and Sunday with a 763.

It's great to see northern England linked to JNB again for the first time since SA's brief appearance at MAN in the early 90s. However, the fact that it's GSM hasn't aroused a lot of excitement.


User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Eva air

Not a chance, CI tried JNB years ago and it was losing money badly, part of the problem was, SA was already flying this sector, twice weekly until South Africa broke ties with Taiwan (which was enough to cover this market). The biggest killer was CI couldn't get traffic right between SIN-JNB, had CI been allowed to fly between SIN and JNB, the route might have been saved.

Once KE provides daily service to JNB, this will pretty much cover all of Far East, ICN will take care of Japanses/Northern Chinese cities, along with SQ/TG/MH for SE Asia, CX/SA in between. The rest of Asian carriers will not be able to sustain this market.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5211 times:

I would imagine JAL flying there someday.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

There has been great speculation on AA MIA-South Africa recently:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/251714/

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3287862

Basically, it comes down to this: AA could print money on a MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA route, but (a) their 777's are not 180 minutes ETOP certified (necessary for CPT-MIA), (b) they don't have enough 777's as it is, and (c) they will probably wait until the 787 is available before trying this route.

However, of all major U.S. airlines, AA is the most likely to fly to South Africa - UA will continue the codeshare with S.A., DL is happy with ATL-DKR-JNB, and US, NW, and CO don't have the equipment, logistics, or O&D numbers to expand to Africa right now.

Okay, MAYBE Continental EWR-JNB, but I'd think they'd rather fly to LOS or LAD from either EWR or IAH for the oil business first.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSA744 From South Africa, joined Nov 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 10):
Once KE provides daily service to JNB, this will pretty much cover all of Far East, ICN will take care of Japanses/Northern Chinese cities, along with SQ/TG/MH for SE Asia, CX/SA in between. The rest of Asian carriers will not be able to sustain this market.

Do you have any idea what there initial frequencies are going to be at start up.


User currently offlineKa From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 662 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Just a little increase, but nevertheless:
LX goes daily ZRH-JNB (up from 6/7) from mid-July (A343).

Greetings,
KA.



Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
User currently offlineCyba From Cape Verde, joined Nov 2005, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting Lxlgu (Reply 3):
Emirates go triple daily from 1 July

According to the Emirates website the new flights are 4x a week on 12-4--7 and are still subject to govt approval

Quoting Ka (Reply 14):
Just a little increase, but nevertheless:
LX goes daily ZRH-JNB (up from 6/7) from mid-July (A343).

But didn't SA just pull out of the market recently? Or am I mixing things up?


User currently offlineLxlgu From South Africa, joined Sep 2000, 1085 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Hi Cyba!

Emirates are triple daily from 1 July-we can sell the new flight and they have introduced special fares on the route
for connecting passengers to Europe

SAA have discontinued their 3x weekly service to Zurich and will start Munich 3x weekly on July 3

Another new route is JNB KILAMANJARO for SAA nonstop once a week from July

Cheers!
Tony


User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4722 times:

Another one to the list is a high from NZ - AKL to JNB via xxx possable add on to the Perth flight. rumer has its the 2008 route of choice for the airline. would either be 744 or T7 operations.

BD are also looking at the chance of jumping in if SAA pull out of the LHR market,



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4696 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
but (a) their 777's are not 180 minutes ETOP certified (necessary for CPT-MIA)

huh? how do you fly the Pacific w/o 180 minute ETOPS on an airplane that was delivered w/ 180 ETOPS?


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4672 times:

Quote:
huh? how do you fly the Pacific w/o 180 minute ETOPS on an airplane that was delivered w/ 180 ETOPS?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3287862

Quote:
AA's 777 have a greater range than non-ER 747-400s. The only problem, as you said, is with ETOPS restrictions. There is a huge spot in the South Atlantic that is restricted for aircraft flying with ETOPS 138. Until American's 777s (unless they have already) are allowed to fly through that big spot, Miami-Cape Town is out the 777's normal (unrestricted) range.

From the previous thread on AA to South Africa (reply #24), this is what I am basing my comment on.

IF American's 777's are 180 ETOPS certified, then CPT-MIA is not a problem. If American's 777's are only 138 minutes certified, this would force a deviation in the flight plane out of a straight line to avoid an area between Namibia and South America where the direct route cuts through.

In looking at the Great Circle Mapper, California-Hawai'i does have a very small portion of the flight that is outside of the 138 ETOPS limitations, so it must be assumed that AA does have aircraft that are 180 ETOPS certified. But AA does not fly any 777's to Hawai'i, and the three longest distance routes - DFW/ORD - NRT, DFW/ORD - Europe, and ORD-DEL all fly far away from 180 ETOPS restrictions.

My point is this: AA 777 flying MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA is feasible; however, (a) range and payload restrictions must be carefully calculated with AA's current 777 fleet (it is over 6600 miles each way!), (b) ETOPS certification must be carefully calculated for maximum range (does anyone know what the ETOPS is for AA's 777's?), and (c) will the 787 be able to do this route more economically?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4593 times:

EI was apparently looking at PHL, YYZ and CPT for next year, so maybe a DUB-JNB-CPT, or DUB-CPT-JNB could be operated?

User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Rumours going around the aviation circle is that the following airlines are seriously considering JNB as a destination:

Aeromexico...But only for the world cup  Wink



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

Quoting Lxlgu (Reply 5):
Effective 9 JUL JNB SAO goes twice daily on MON/THU/SAT

Extra flight is SA224 JNBGRU 1420/1950

SA225 GRUJNB 2230/1200

Interesting to see South African grabbing all the traffic between the two countries for themselves.

Isn´t Brazilian Ocean Air prepared to launch South Africa destinations from GRU any time now ?

How would the new GOL/Varig react to this SA movement ?

Best regards



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4466 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 19):
Quote:
huh? how do you fly the Pacific w/o 180 minute ETOPS on an airplane that was delivered w/ 180 ETOPS?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3287862

Quote:
AA's 777 have a greater range than non-ER 747-400s. The only problem, as you said, is with ETOPS restrictions. There is a huge spot in the South Atlantic that is restricted for aircraft flying with ETOPS 138. Until American's 777s (unless they have already) are allowed to fly through that big spot, Miami-Cape Town is out the 777's normal (unrestricted) range.

From the previous thread on AA to South Africa (reply #24), this is what I am basing my comment on.

and I don't think the info is correct but it's possible it is. I cannot for the life of me know why AA would choose not to certify the queen of its fleet to fly ETOPS 180 since the plane was designed and delivered to do just that.

If true, the irony is that AA maintains DL's RR Trents to 180 minute ETOPS standards while maintaining its aircraft to a lesser standard (of which engines are a part).

I still want to hear from someone at AA who knows whether this is true or not... I'm highly skeptical although GCI does show it is possible to fly to NRT from most of the US w/ ETOPS 138 as well as on most if not all of AA's other 777 routes .


User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 17):
Another one to the list is a high from NZ - AKL to JNB via xxx possable add on to the Perth flight. rumer has its the 2008 route of choice for the airline. would either be 744 or T7 operations.

Is that still on is it, I thought it was another route for NZ in 2008. Not sure if a 772 can fly from PER-JNB or not.


25 RwSEA : I think the pilot issue needs to be resolved too. If the pilots refused to fly DFW-PEK, I can guarantee you they aren't going to be jumping up and do
26 PAHS200 : is this because of the World Cup? I know its 3 years away. michael
27 SA744 : This route has been a topic of many discussions so will believe it when i see NZ touch SA Runway. They were also thinking of flying it via Melbourne.
28 Omoo : What about CO flying from IAH to JNB using a 777 ? is that feasible ?
29 Horus : EgyptAir will increase CAI-JNB-CAI flights from 5x weekly to daily from W07/08. SA codeshare on the service. Horus
30 WorldTraveler : not nonstop on an ER.
31 SA744 : Hello All News thru the aviation circles Jet airways are wanting to start the JNB route in november. Aircraft and route frequencies as of yet unknown.
32 Post contains links MAH4546 : SAA and MIA officials have met lately, even though I don't think there will be something soon given SAA's situation: http://www.miamitodaynews.com/new
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Airlines To DCA IAD And Bwi? posted Wed Apr 11 2001 18:40:06 by Lindy
Spirit Airlines To LIM And CIX posted Thu Feb 22 2007 18:35:51 by Andahuailas
New Airlines To India posted Mon Feb 19 2007 13:14:33 by Chris7217
2 New Airlines To Enter Gulfport/Biloxi Market posted Wed Nov 22 2006 03:48:57 by UnitedMSY
Rumour A380 Visit To JNB And CPT posted Thu Aug 3 2006 12:04:22 by A390
Any News On New Carriers To JNB posted Sat May 27 2006 20:24:55 by SA744
SQ New Services To MXP And BCN This Summer posted Tue Apr 25 2006 14:45:47 by Aukahkay
New Routes To, From And In Germany posted Thu Mar 9 2006 15:38:52 by Flying-Tiger
New Airlines To IND posted Sat Mar 4 2006 02:42:05 by Tiger119
New Airlines To JNB posted Thu Dec 1 2005 11:26:02 by SA744