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AF To MIA: A Few Questions  
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3649 times:

I have 2 questions:
-what is AF schedule to MIA for this summer?
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?
Thanks


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAH332 From Algeria, joined Mar 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3610 times:

Hi,

AF flies daily to MIA with the 747-400. I took the flight back in June 2003. Nice service!

As for the 77W, I didn't even know AF was planning to switch planes on the route. I thought MIA was always going to be a 747-400 route. Maybe someone else has more insight.

Cheers,
Imad



Bledi Heya Al Djazaeer! // Next Flights: AB MIA-DUS-ORY, AF ORY-MRS-ALG
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32740 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-what is AF schedule to MIA for this summer?

AF 90 CDG 1050-1415 MIA 744 Daily
AF 95 MIA 1740-0810+1 CDG 744 Daily

AF 3942 CAY 1245-1350 FDF 1440-1515 PTP 1615-1710 PAP 1810-2100 MIA 320 MoWeSa
AF 3943 MIA 0845-0935 PAP 1025-1310 PTP 1410-1445 FDF 1535-1840 CAY 320 TuThSu

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?

Unlikely, although the F cabin would be welcome for passengers connecting to Africa. MIA was one of the last AF destinations served with AF's F-class 744s. None the less, the 744 is perfect for the route, and the next aircraft change would probably be to a 380.



a.
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

Does AF send the 744s equipped with PTV in Y (F-GITI/J/H)?


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?

In 2008 or 2009. AF will add 6 B773 for several international routes, as discussed here on a.net, but MIA might see the A380 as well:

More B773ER For Air France (by FlySSC Oct 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting LY777 (Reply 3):
Does AF send the 744s equipped with PTV in Y (F-GITI/J/H)?

Well, right now F-GITJ is in MIA for today's flight to Paris (also a regular visitor during some weeks in April). But these three 744 aircrafts, F-GITI/J/H (with PTVs in the whole cabin) are sent randomly to several B744 destinations: SFO, BOS, CCS, MEX, JFK, YUL, GIG and ATL......and also MIA


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8344 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3326 times:
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Miami will probably remain a once daily station, why not two ? Who knows. Later departures from CDG to Miami would offer little onward connection given Miami's type of traffic. I personally prefer a later departure both ways.

User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 3):
Does AF send the 744s equipped with PTV in Y (F-GITI/J/H)?

I took the flight in March and the only PTVs in Y were upstairs. Didn't get the reg, though.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9784 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF.

A388


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF.

Maybe you're confusing AF with LH. LH could very well opt for an upgrade of their FRA-MIA route to an A380, given that they currently serve MIA with a 747 like AF do.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32740 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
Maybe you're confusing AF with LH. LH could very well opt for an upgrade of their FRA-MIA route to an A380, given that they currently serve MIA with a 747 like AF do.

No, he isn't. Air France has said Miami is one of the destinations that the A380 was bought for, ever since they ordered them. Air France is bigger at MIA than LH, and not just because they also fly to Haiti. They consistantly have the highest or second highest loadfactor of any European carrier at MIA, always over 90%.



a.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9784 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
No, he isn't. Air France has said Miami is one of the destinations that the A380 was bought for, ever since they ordered them.

I will definately fly to Europe via MIA once airlines start using the A380. I can already see the A380 parked in front of me, wow  Smile

A388  bouncy 


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?

I doubt that MIA will see the 77W. AF uses its 777 fleet on flights that have a high demand in F and J, while sending the A340 and 744 to the more touristy destinations. MIA seems to generate more Y demand for the CDG route, thus the 744 is a perfect match.

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF.

It's a possibility. AF has said repeatedly that the first routes to see the A380 will likely be CDG-YUL, CDG-JFK, and CDG-NRT. While MIA could certainly see a daily A380, it won't be with one of the first few planes delivered.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9784 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 11):
I doubt that MIA will see the 77W. AF uses its 777 fleet on flights that have a high demand in F and J, while sending the A340 and 744 to the more touristy destinations.

Not entirely true. AF does have a few 77W's configured for leisure destinations (more Y seats) to the French Caribbean such as PTP, FDF and RUN.

A388


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

Quoting JJJ (Reply 6):
I took the flight in March and the only PTVs in Y were upstairs. Didn't get the reg, though.

These are the super-high-density ones, F-GITA, GITC and such, with a very tiny J cabin. I tried once to book a seat upstairs on a cheap ticket and they changed it. (for a window-less window seat... unlucky me!) I guess you either need the appropriate FF status or expensive enough airfare to get these, which i totally understand and agree with.

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 4):
But these three 744 aircrafts, F-GITI/J/H (with PTVs in the whole cabin) are sent randomly to several B744 destinations: SFO, BOS, CCS, MEX, JFK, YUL, GIG and ATL......and also MIA

But don't these have a larger J cabin and smaller Y cabin than the others, and hence how do they deal with the seat mismatch?

What is AF's 744 seating status at the moment by the way?



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 4):
but MIA might see the A380 as well:



Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF

NO WAY !! you will not see the AF A380 in MIA. There is not enough demand in premium classes (P & J) on this route for the A380 and the yield is too low.
If ever more capacity is needed, I would rather see a second flight on certain days (A343).

AF's A380 destinations planned are JFK, YUL, NRT, PEK, LAX and maybe SIN.

Quoting Cba (Reply 11):
I doubt that MIA will see the 77W. AF uses its 777 fleet on flights that have a high demand in F and J, while sending the A340 and 744 to the more touristy destinations.



Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
AF does have a few 77W's configured for leisure destinations (more Y seats) to the French Caribbean such as PTP, FDF and RUN.

I think some clarifications are needed here.

The B77W AF will send to MIA will be configured with J/Y class only (just like the B744 used now). This will be another different configuration from the "traditional" 8P/67J/235Y config. used on the international routes, or the Orly based B77W 14J/36S/400M used to FDF, PTP, RUN, CAY.

Beside MIA : BKK, GIG, SFO should get these new J/Y configured B77W in a near future (2009).

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 13):
These are the super-high-density ones, F-GITA, GITC and such, with a very tiny J cabin

This configuration (17J/60S/400M) is progressively removed and all the 13 B744 will be soon in the standard 40J/396Y configuration.
Only 3 aircraft are still in this config. : F-GITB, TC, TD.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32740 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3078 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):

NO WAY !! you will not see the AF A380 in MIA. There is not enough demand in premium classes (P & J) on this route for the A380 and the yield is too low.
If ever more capacity is needed, I would rather see a second flight on certain days (A343)

While priorities have certainly changed for AF, they have traditionally said that the 380 will be flown to MIA, and they worked with MIA to make sure their new gates in the south terminal are A380-ready. I don't get why AF's MIA route suddently isn't the strong performer it used to be. Swiss, Alitalia, Iberia, and British Airways do great at MIA, why doesn't AF?

[Edited 2007-05-11 03:48:24]


a.
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):

Not entirely true. AF does have a few 77W's configured for leisure destinations (more Y seats) to the French Caribbean such as PTP, FDF and RUN.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):

The B77W AF will send to MIA will be configured with J/Y class only (just like the B744 used now). This will be another different configuration from the "traditional" 8P/67J/235Y config. used on the international routes, or the Orly based B77W 14J/36S/400M used to FDF, PTP, RUN, CAY.

So AF is now operating 3 different types of 77W aircraft, 1 with 3 classes, another with 2 classes, and a third, the people-hauler service from ORY-FDF etc? I didn't realize that they were implementing a third 77W configuration. Do you know which ones go where?


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
So AF is now operating 3 different types of 77W aircraft

Not yet ... but soon yes.

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
Do you know which ones go where?

See Reply # 14.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
While priorities have certainly changed for AF, they have traditionally said that the 380 will be flown to MIA

I don't think AF ever considered seriously to send the A380 to MIA.
Maybe some Journalists, or people here on A.Net did ... But I never read anything like this in any AF publications since the very first declarations of AF's CEO 5 years ago.

The A380 will be used on Premium routes. If MIA was one of them, AF would send a B77W now, or at least a B772ER instead of a B744 offering only 40 J seats Daily.
I don't see the A380, with 9P/80J/460Y (or so) replacing a B744 with 40J/396Y. That would not make sense.

The destinations for AF's A380 are now known for a long time : JFK & YUL. Then NRT. For sure.
Then should follow LAX and PEK. SIN was recently added to the list, considering the growth on the line following the use of the B77W , and thanks to the excellent results of the codeshare with QF.

[Edited 2007-05-11 04:53:41]

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9784 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
So AF is now operating 3 different types of 77W aircraft, 1 with 3 classes, another with 2 classes, and a third, the people-hauler service from ORY-FDF etc? I didn't realize that they were implementing a third 77W configuration. Do you know which ones go where?

I am surprised to read about this third 77W configuration as well.


So will AF use the A380 to MIA or not? I remember reading this in a press release about AF and the A380 (?)

A388


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32740 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 18):
I don't think AF ever considered seriously to send the A380 to MIA.
Maybe some Journalists, or people here on A.Net did ... But I never read anything like this in any AF publications since the very first declarations of AF's CEO 5 years ago.

Of course they have.

Air France envisage d'affecter ses futurs A380 à cinq destinations au départ de Paris
vendredi 11 juillet 2003

Air France envisage d’utiliser les 10 exemplaires du futur avion géant A380 qu’elle a commandés à Airbus pour la desserte de cinq destinations au départ de Paris : Tokyo, New-York, Montréal, Los Angeles et Miami, a indiqué jeudi le PDG de la compagnie..



MIA is going to be pretty upset if it doesn't, because they have worked very closely with AF to prepare MIA to be A380-ready, because AF was supposed to be the first airline to use it to MIA. And as of this spring, they are still expecting it. Of course, there the commitment is only verbal and market conditions do change, so nothing is a sure thing. MIA is the perfect A380 market for AF, although they have struggled lately to bring up the yield. I don't understand why AF has been struggling with attracting business class passengers at MIA while most others have not. Lufthansa has also never been very successful at luring them.



a.
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2931 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):

I am surprised to read about this third 77W configuration as well.

No kidding. Other than MIA, does anyone know where these birds will be flying? I know that the current 3-class 77W's go to JFK, IAD, LAX, NRT, PEK, SIN, HKG, etc, with the 2-class people-haulers going to the French Caribbean. So other than MIA, where will the new configuration go?


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32740 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 21):
So other than MIA, where will the new configuration go?

Probably destinations like Bangkok, Boston, Rio de Janeiro, and San Francisco.



a.
User currently offlineBkkair From Thailand, joined Aug 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

AF A380 destinations (prediction), based on current flights.

JFK- currrently 6 daily flights YES
NRT- currently 4 daily flights YES
YUL-currently 3 daily flights MAYBE
LAX-currently 3 daily flights MAYBE

GRU has 2 daily, PEK has 2 daily and SIN has 1 daily so probably not yet ready for the A380.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Of course they have.

Air France envisage d'affecter ses futurs A380 à cinq destinations au départ de Paris
vendredi 11 juillet 2003

Air France envisage d'utiliser les 10 exemplaires du futur avion géant A380 qu'elle a commandé à Airbus pour la desserte de cinq destinations au départ de Paris : Tokyo, New-York, Montréal, Los Angeles et Miami, a indiqué jeudi le PDG de la compagnie..

That's what I said. Miami was mentionned (?) only in this quote and that was 5 years ago. This article continues in saying that AF will use its A380 to these destinations during spring 2006 and 2007 ... Since this was published, MIA never appeared among the potential destinations for AF's A380.

Quoting Bkkair (Reply 23):
SIN has 1 daily so probably not yet ready for the A380

SIN has 1 Daily flight and a second flight cannot be added for the moment due to bilateral agreement so the only way for AF to increase the offer is to use a bigger aircraft on the route ...


25 HB-IWC : I don't understand all the raving about AF at MIA here. MIA, although not a money loser, is not among the higher yielding North American destinations
26 MAH4546 : What raving? Nobody is raving. AF hasn't done as well at MIA as they should be doing. It speaks poorly for AF more than anything else, because AZ, IB
27 Post contains images JJJ : I'm FB Gold and so far it has worked in getting me a window seat upstairs Anyone knows the seat pitch up there for sure? I am certain it won't be far
28 HB-IWC : Well, the same could be said of BOS, where AF has decided not to operate First Class cabins, unlike many of its European competitors. Whether or not
29 MAH4546 : Summer fo 2001, MIA-CDG was double daily, 7x 744 and 7x 343. In fact, when Air France announced their post-9/11 schedule, it was JFK 3x daily, MIA 2x
30 YULWinterSkies : Thanks FlySSC. Actually, how about AF sending the A380 to JNB? With 10 of them, I'm sure that eventually it won't be only restricted to JFK, YUL, NRT,
31 B752OS : I don't see why it's a big deal if AF sends the 380. I personally don't see the HUGE deal about the thing, to me, it's just a gimmick plane. It's ugl
32 FlySSC : Correct. ORD, loosing money, being the "weakest" AF destination in North America. I doubt. As you mentionned,AF has only 10 A380 on order (+ 4 Option
33 MAH4546 : Personally, yes, I would like to see that over just an A380, but I think, for a market like Miami-Paris that is heavily leisure, the A380 is better.
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