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KLM To SEA?  
User currently offlineDutchdragon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 22 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5751 times:

I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any fact or rumours of KLM flying AMS-SEA and v.v. either currently to to start sometime soon?

I have a friend over in the Netherlands who just got a job with them as a flight attendant ( I am needlessly jealous, of course ! :-P LOL ) and she said that she saw something on their website about such a flying either currently or to be offered soon.

I "tried" to check out their website to see if I could find out about it, but I couldn't find it.

Does anyone know anything about this ?

Please advise .....

Thank you all and have a great weekend !  Smile

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2209 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Quoting Dutchdragon (Thread starter):
I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any fact or rumours of KLM flying AMS-SEA and v.v. either currently to to start sometime soon?

KLM are already on the market by the mere fact that NW operate the service and that revenue is split between KL and NW.

Unless, for operational reasons NW ask KL to operate it you won't see KL equipment in SEA.


User currently offlineTerryb99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

That was my first thought, having taken the SEA-AMS-SEA flight on NW a few months ago.

Why would KLM duplicate a NW route?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

Quoting Terryb99 (Reply 2):
Why would KLM duplicate a NW route?

They won't. They revenue share.



a.
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

If anything, you'll see PDX-AMS first using an A330.

NW/KL have SEA locked up already, and given that NW is doing well (so far) in PDX, I would look for them to add their footprint with a flight to Europe out of PDX to give LH a run for their money.

That said, LH knows that, and will likely upgrade PDX-FRA to daily year-round, but likely to a bigger plane, and I would guess an A346.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21680 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5626 times:

Plus, isn't AF starting CDG-SEA soon?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Plus, isn't AF starting CDG-SEA soon?

June 1, I believe it is. With an A330.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

Does NW operate a 332 or 333 on the SEA-AMS route?

User currently offlineHECA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5340 times:
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Quoting Cba (Reply 7):
Does NW operate a 332 or 333 on the SEA-AMS route?

I believe they operate the 332 out of SEA, since it continues from AMS to India.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

NW would strategically want to keep the SEA-AMS route since it helps them with maintenance and with the SEA-NRT route. The AMS-SEA flight actually arrives after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That plane usually sits overnight in SEA for maintenance or flies as a second late afternoon departure to NRT. For scheduling reasons, NW will keep this route and not hand it over to KL.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
NW would strategically want to keep the SEA-AMS route since it helps them with maintenance and with the SEA-NRT route. The AMS-SEA flight actually arrives after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That plane usually sits overnight in SEA for maintenance or flies as a second late afternoon departure to NRT. For scheduling reasons, NW will keep this route and not hand it over to KL.

Are you saying that NW will maintenance check an A330 everyday at SEA ?
And how do they schedule that with the 332 and 333's?

KL911


User currently offlineAlexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

I have seem 333's/332's swapped out on MSP-SEA. I am guessing that it is for maintenance checks. The 333 isn't scheduled in out of SEA so it's a guess.

Now with the added NRT flights, at times you see 3 330's sitting around SEA



You mad Bro???
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Agreed that SEA-AMS, since already served by NW, doesn't make sense to KL unless the demand is huge, I don't know what the loads are like. As for PDX, is there sufficient O&D to support an AMS n/s? There's really not much in the way of connecting options there, so I would think it would have to all be local. The only cnx I can see that makes sense is to NW to NRT, and that's already covered at SEA. As for AF coming to SEA, it'll be great to see them get some new international service, especially from the European side.

User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

Are there ever KL Flight Attendants onboard NW flights? Didn't airlines used to do this on select routes? I seem to recall they did, but have no idea which airlines or routes. Just a thought as to what that newly hired KL flight attendant may have read.

User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
There's really not much in the way of connecting options there, so I would think it would have to all be local. The only cnx I can see that makes sense is to NW to NRT, and that's already covered at SEA

Which actually doesn't make sense at all since KL has the AMS-NRT nonstop daily.
Why fly AMS-SEA-NRT?

KL911


User currently offlineFlyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
Are you saying that NW will maintenance check an A330 everyday at SEA ?
And how do they schedule that with the 332 and 333's?

KL911

they do have a rather large hanger at SeaTac ...


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
Which actually doesn't make sense at all since KL has the AMS-NRT nonstop daily.
Why fly AMS-SEA-NRT?

It's all about aircraft use maximization. NW doesn't serve AMS-SEA-NRT in one flight. The 332 departs AMS and arrives in SEA after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That aircraft then spends the night in SEA and turns around to operate the next day's SEA-NRT. Meanwhile, the 332 returning from NRT to SEA operates the SEA-AMS flight while the other 332 is enroute from AMS.

Sounds a bit complicated, but this is how airlines get good use out of their fleets. If an aircraft is on the ground for an extended period of time, then it's not making money.


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
It's all about aircraft use maximization. NW doesn't serve AMS-SEA-NRT in one flight. The 332 departs AMS and arrives in SEA after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That aircraft then spends the night in SEA and turns around to operate the next day's SEA-NRT. Meanwhile, the 332 returning from NRT to SEA operates the SEA-AMS flight while the other 332 is enroute from AMS.

Sounds a bit complicated, but this is how airlines get good use out of their fleets. If an aircraft is on the ground for an extended period of time, then it's not making money.

I know that, but they way he said it was for connections AMS-SEA-NRT, that is what I dont buy.

KL911


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):

I know that, but they way he said it was for connections AMS-SEA-NRT, that is what I dont buy.

Ohh, ok. Yeah that doesn't really make a lot of sense. Connecting through SEA to get from AMS to NRT easily ads at least an extra 10 hours onto the journey, and that's just in pure flight time!


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Plus, isn't AF starting CDG-SEA soon?



Quoting N174UA (Reply 6):
June 1, I believe it is. With an A330.

June 11.
CDG-SEA-CDG Daily. A332. Will be reduced to 5 x Weekly next winter season.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5852 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4823 times:

KLM Cargo website states they are starting Seattle.

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting HECA (Reply 8):
I believe they operate the 332 out of SEA, since it continues from AMS to India.

All NWA flights to Amsterdam operate 333s.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4745 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
As for PDX, is there sufficient O&D to support an AMS n/s? There's really not much in the way of connecting options there, so I would think it would have to all be local

Not sure about KL, but NW code shares with QX, who have a huge presence in PDX. Beyond that, the O&D PDX-AMS would probably be pretty small, relying on connections @ AMS. LH seems to be doing alright on PDX-FRA, but a PDX-AMS flight would double the europeans capacity out of PDX, and I suspect this town ain't big enough for the two of them....



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4745 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 21):
All NWA flights to Amsterdam operate 333s.

No that is not correct. NW originally operated the A333 from SEA to AMS when it switched from a DC10, but later switched the flight to the A332. This was for multiple reasons, but SEA-AMS was NW's longest A333 route and it pushed the range of that plane. SEA-AMS is actually longer than SEA-NRT.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 21):

All NWA flights to Amsterdam operate 333s.

Going to have to disagree there. NW's timetable shows the 332 handling the SEA-AMS runs.


25 Mk777 : I thought the A332 that NW operates to BOM starts out at MSP rather than SEA but i guess that has changed!!! NW34 does fly out from SEA!!![Edited 200
26 Jano : Plus MEM NW57/58 too.
27 RwSEA : When I've waited for my baggage at customs after coming off the AMS-SEA flight, it has been apparent that lots of people were connecting. Lots to QX
28 Thepilot : Hmm, Martinair already operates this route with MD11s and B744s, I think. They are based out of the Netherlands, so I wonder if this is overkill.
29 SkyyMaster : I think you misunderstood my post I was actually trying to make the point there is NO need for AMS pax to connect in SEA or PDX to get to NRT. That w
30 Cba : SEA-AMS is well within the range of the A333; I'd be surprised if they had payload issues. The A330 has a range of about 5600nm, with SEA-AMS being a
31 Jano : We do not know how much cargo NW is hauling between those 2 cities.
32 NorthstarBoy : it has changed, actually, NW 42 used to operate as a DC-10 Msp-Ams-Bom, but i think when they made the switch to the A330 they also switched the orig
33 SR 103 : In all the years I have been flying MCO-DTW/MEM/MSP-AMS-India/Middle East; NW has always issued my onwards boarding passes in Orlando. I am not sure
34 Post contains images Fkruiver : Pffff rumours rumours rumours...i work for klm and there have always been such rumours...want to add some more? How about Panama and Sydney.....
35 Post contains images LHboyatDTW : How about that rumored 3-4-3 config on your upcoming 77Ws If KL were to fly to SEA, then why not DTW, MEM, and MSP as well? They used to operate into
36 Post contains links Jano : What route do you fly? I fly one of these 1. TYS-DTW or MEM-AMS-VIE 2. TYS-DTW or MEM-AMS-PRG-ILZ or BTS 3. TYS-DTW-FRA-PRG-ILZ every two months For
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