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BA New Club World Re-fit  
User currently offlineBrymon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7120 times:

Anybody have info on how many aircraft have had the re-fit? Have the re-fits started on the 772 fleet yet?

Thanks

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1775 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7108 times:

All of the 747's on the JFK route are done and they will now be continuing on with the rest of the 747 fleet. I think I read somewhere else on here that there converting around 3-4 a month

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7077 times:

I had my first chance to try out the new seats on my return from Washington last week (travelled out on a B777 with old seats).

I actually was disappointed. I was on upper deck in first row on left side. I found that every-time the pax in the window seat moved, the whole think moved and shaked. It was quite noticeable and in one case spilled my beer. It was disturbing enough that I will avoid them, where I can, in the future.

Also I thought there was supposed to be some sort of extra mattress put down by the crew. No sign of that on my flight.

I think they need to find some way to secure these seats better. I don't think they would be very safe in an accident.


User currently offlineTCXDegsy From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 2):
Also I thought there was supposed to be some sort of extra mattress put down by the crew. No sign of that on my flight.

I think you're referring to the Turndown Service that was launched as part of FIRST's enhancements at the same time was Club's relaunch.



next flights: BA1441 0566 0581 1446 EDI-LHR-MXP-LHR-EDI
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3934 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7008 times:

There are 18 B744 converted and 4 a month coming out of Cardiff. No B777 yet.

User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6892 times:

Quoting TCXDegsy (Reply 3):
I think you're referring to the Turndown Service that was launched as part of FIRST's enhancements at the same time was Club's relaunch.

Ah, my mistake.


User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6882 times:

50% of the longhaul fleet (excl 767) should be refitted by end of June.

Passenger feedback is measured by the Global Performance Monitor (GPM's), which monitors 18 randomly selected passengers spread across all classes on every long haul flight. The figures from those on the new seats are consistently higher in every category including space available, privacy, comfort and stowage. The April figures are also 22% higher in the 'I would definitely fly BA again' statement versus the old Club seat.

There have been some issues with the new seat. These include the flimsy-ness of the footstools, the fact that (as mentioned above) the entire seat unit can 'wobble' in turbulence and also an issue with some IFE screens not staying rigid when deployed. Each of these issues have been resolved and as each new aircraft is fitted it will be fitted with enhancements to avoid these issues. Unfortunately in you flew on one of the first aircraft to be re-itted you may still encounter some of the above complains until these aircraft go back to the hanger. But with a fleet of over 100 747's/777's you are more likely to not be on one of the first ones re-fitted.

The only disappointment so far with the new cabin has been the 'Club kitchen'. Customer ratings on the GPM's are not really different to when it was 'raid the larder' so the product and service department are looking at how this can be enhanced.

And yes, the 'turndown' service is only offered in First Class (on night flights and daylight flights over 8.5hr). Obviously BA needs to 'up the game' in FIRST as the difference between F & J is narrowing and it does not want First passengers downgrading. Until the new First Cabin is unveiled 'soft' enhancements have been made to he cabin such as the turndown service, improved menus etc.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6855 times:

Quoting BAStew (Reply 6):
The only disappointment so far with the new cabin has been the 'Club kitchen'.

Didn't see this on my flight. On the flight out they had 'raid the larder' (but why do they never have beer?) but didn't see anything on the return (in the new Club)

Nice to see that some issues are being addressed, in particular the wobble - but it's going to be hit and miss until they get it fixed.

I've just reached my 2K tier points for this year with BA. Think I might try the competition for the next six months or so.

Edited to add: BASTEW - thanks very much for your comments. I don't mean to be negative - but after all of the hype I'm actually disappointed - I prefer the old seats (particularly if I can get an aisle where the window pax isn't climbing over me).

[Edited 2007-05-11 14:34:57]

User currently offlineBrymon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6839 times:

Thanks for all the info - I'm yet to try the new Club World. My next trip will be to DOH with the annoying stop in BAH en route, its a 744, so I guess a small chance of getting New Club as its a hi J config.

User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6808 times:

Hi

Got to test the new Club World seat on the Miami route last month, it seems that BA are sending the 1st Miami flight out with the new Club World, so got to experience it, and the crew on the Upper deck also were getting use to it.

I loved the seat, thought it was noticeably wider, the cushions softer and the new AVOD system was great. The screen divider is very good, although on both flights when I put it up, I felt a bit mean to the pax in the seat next to me as I shut them off. The crew did say that the seat wobble in turbulence was an issue, but no problems on my flight, and I preferred the new foot rest, although the Z shape they are advertising isn't that comfortable, I just put the seat into a half bed mode instead.

On the AVOD, both trips saw big issues with the AVOD system. On the way out the system was re-booted twice before it would work, and still a few pax in economy had issues with it. On the way back after several re-sets, the crew managed to get the old continuous loop system working, but def. something to fix as the system is rolled out.

On the Club kitchen, not a good location or set-up, and apparently the WT+ pax keep taking the snacks as they come back into the galley, and the pax on the upper deck have to come downstairs to get at the 'Kitchen' which doesn't really work either.

So ratings:
Seat 9/10
AVOD: 7/10 - Only docked marks because of tech issues, when it works it is good
Cabin Appearance: 8/10 - Looks very fresh
Club Kitchen: 4/10 - Points raised above

Overall a good upgrade on a very good product, but just needs a few changes to get it spot on.



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineJonnyWishbone From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6602 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 9):
apparently the WT+ pax keep taking the snacks as they come back into the galley

I find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

As I said, common sense seems to be an oddity in the aviation industry!


User currently offlineBCALBOY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

Quoting Brymon (Reply 8):
Thanks for all the info - I'm yet to try the new Club World. My next trip will be to DOH with the annoying stop in BAH en route, its a 744, so I guess a small chance of getting New Club as its a hi J config.

BAH/DOH is a 777 route.


User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1288 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6510 times:

Any chance someone can direct me to a seating plan for the new configuration? By the way, is there a low density/high density B744 configuration with the New Club World?

Tim.


User currently offlineMutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 12):
Any chance someone can direct me to a seating plan for the new configuration? By the way, is there a low density/high density B744 configuration with the New Club World?

The seating footprint hasnt changed on High J so the seatmaps on expertflyer or elsewhere remain valid.

The old Low J config for 747 will become a Mid J configuration with (IIRC) an increase to 54 seats. There is no overall seat plan yet available unless you can identify an actual Mid J frame and its route schedule, then visit expertflyer so not very helpful just yet


User currently offlineMutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6464 times:

Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 10):
find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

Whilst i agree that where this happens it may be a bit of an irritation you should bear in mind that the FWJY layout ONLY applies to the low J conversion to Mid J 747 fleet, NOT to High J 747 or 777. So frankly a minority of the fleet


User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 864 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6395 times:

Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 10):
I find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

Actually, those that pay top prices (ie First) currently get off after those in Club World and WTP using the current low J config, so the mid J is nothing different. While it is not an ideal config, it is addressing the need for more Club World seats and adds another 14 Club seats to each current low J 747, which are needed.


User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6369 times:

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 11):
BAH/DOH is a 777 route.

Since the start of the summer schedule, it has been a 744.

Cheers
 Smile



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 15):
Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 10):
I find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

Actually, those that pay top prices (ie First) currently get off after those in Club World and WTP using the current low J config, so the mid J is nothing different. While it is not an ideal config, it is addressing the need for more Club World seats and adds another 14 Club seats to each current low J 747, which are needed.

The issue of WTP pax availing themselves of Club Kitchen items was raised time and time again by the crew.

The company response (which does make some sense) is 1) It will only affect the current 'Lo J' aircraft which are in the minority. And, 2) it exisits already with the Lo J as WTP and Club currently share a galley.

We are obviously cabin 'crew' not cabin police. Personally, if I was in that galley and a WTP passenger knicked a little piece of chocolate or a pack of crisps from the Club Kitchen I wouldn't snatch it back off of them, but I would politely let them know that it is for Club customers. On the other hand, if a WTP passenger came along and asked me to heat them up one of the dine anytime meals from the Club kitchen I would certainly decline.

As for WTP passengers getting on before FIRST and Club......this will be an issue. BA's new policy is to dis-embark at door 1 left where facilities provide for that. This way, at least FIRST passengers will dis-embark first. But Club will dis-embark behind WTP. It is a shame there isn't some sort of 'fast track' system available in the US for premium pax.


User currently offlineWJ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6159 times:

Can someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I simply dont get this ultra expensive, tens of millions of pounds spent in revamping what still was the best business seat across the atlantic. If they are worried about all of the start-ups taking away business, ask any frequent passenger, they didn't need new seats, all they needed was to learn how to smile.


146,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,300,310,319,320,321,330,343,DC9,D10,MD11,M80,E17
User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

Quoting WJ (Reply 18):
If they are worried about all of the start-ups taking away business, ask any frequent passenger, they didn't need new seats, all they needed was to learn how to smile.

Who is "they" in your post WJ?


User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5825 times:

Quoting WJ (Reply 18):
Can someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I simply dont get this ultra expensive, tens of millions of pounds spent in revamping what still was the best business seat across the atlantic. If they are worried about all of the start-ups taking away business, ask any frequent passenger, they didn't need new seats, all they needed was to learn how to smile.

BA was the first airline to install a fully flat seat in business class, that was 6 years ago. SInce then, other airlines have rolled out theirs.....longer, wider etc etc.

Club World is the most profitable cabin for British Airways, WTP second, FIRST third and WT at the bottom. So obviously BA will continue to invest in its most profitable area first.

Although inititally setting the benchmark of J class seats, there were areas BA were being overtaken on. Passengers were not happy with the width of the existing seat which is quite narrow compared to the competition. Other areas highlighted were privacy and stowage. Passengers wanted more of both. And of course, AVOD which has now become pretty much the norm.

The new seat is 25% wider and is significantly more 'cocooned' than the existing seat.

FIRST is due to be upgraded next with a complete new cabin. This will start within the next 18 months. Both FIRST and Club World will also benefit from a new lounge concept when T5 opens. 'Terraces' will be gone, and in its place something akin to 'the pier' in HKG.

I also wouldn't be suprised that given the (unforseen) popularity and profitability of WT+ that there will be some sort of enhancement there, as VS has just raised teh game in their Premium Economy.


User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

Flew 744 G-BNLZ on 3rd May on the morning LHR-MIA flight (seat 64A on upper deck) and it was fitted with the new Club World

The seat, screen and table are much simpler than the old version and the sides drop when the bed goes flat which overcomes the old seats main shortcoming of being difficult to sleep in on ones side. Liked the big touch screen; shame all the films were crap

Came back on 'LG which still had the old ones



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1288 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5623 times:

Not a subscriber to expertflyer, so an alternative source would be appreciated.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7259 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4):
There are 18 B744 converted and 4 a month coming out of Cardiff. No B777 yet.

With 3 or 4 conversions a month this is obviously a moving target. BA issued a press release on 17 April announcing that they planned all future rotations to JFK by 744 (but not 772 or 763) to be on converted aircraft. They said that 17 aircraft had, at that time been converted.

Since then I have been trying to monitor 744s returning to LHR from BA Engineering at CWL (where the conversions are carried out) and aircraft in service on the LHR-JFK route. The problem is that aircraft visit CWL for routine maintenance as well as conversion and I have no way of telling which is which. So corrections to the data below will be welcome.

However G-BYGB was ferried ex-CWL on 20 April, operated BA179 to JFK that day and has since flown to JFK a further four times. So it was almost certainly the eighteenth conversion. G-BYGD was ferried into LHR from CWL on 25 April and was put back into service the following day as BA117 to JFK. It has since operated on this route six more times. So it is almost certainly the nineteenth conversion. G-CIVL that I think was a 'Lo J' configured aircraft returned to LHR on 26 April having been out of service since 1 April. It returned to service as BA209 (LHR-MIA) on 27 April and, following G-BNLU, was probably the second 'Mid J' aircraft to go into service and the twentieth conversion. G-CIVY was ferried to CWL on 26 April and was back in service operating BA177 to JFK on 8 May so may be the twenty-first conversion.

There are 13 aircraft that have been to CWL and have operated at least eight times to JFK since 17 April are:
G-BYGE, 'GF and 'GG and G-CIVF, 'VG, 'VH, 'VI, 'VR, 'VS, 'VV, 'VW, 'VX and 'VZ.

Similarly there are four other aircraft that have also been to CWL and have operated at least three times to JFK since 17 April:
G-BNLK and 'LP, G-BYGA, and 'GC.

Those that have been counting will have noted that I think there are 21 conversions but list 22 possibly converted aircraft! Perhaps G-CIVL was not converted?


User currently offlineFlyua From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 314 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

BAStew: I applaud your attention to detail in your posts. You are a most informative poster! I am quite sure you are an excellent cabin attendant, as well. You are an excellent representative of British Airways.

25 Hotelmode : I was going to post the BA info on what aircraft are AVOD fitted but it appears they have stopped putting this info into the system, as several low J
26 TCXDegsy : Has anyone any idea when it's expected the 777's will start being refitted? I fly out to EWR on a 777 in November, and return on a 747 from JFK a week
27 Hotelmode : You'll be extremely lucky to get a refitted 777 in Nov, but they will have started.
28 VV701 : Many thanks for this information. Looks as if the last conversion on the formal list is CIVZ that went back into service on 10 April. If Ba does upda
29 Post contains links LHR27C : This thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=633240 on Flyertalk might help. Gives stats for April, presumably will be updated for May
30 VV701 : Hello again. Sorry but I have only just noticed that jibes exactly with the BA Press Release of 17 April that said: I had interpreted the BA announced
31 Post contains images JonnyWishbone : Doh I've just booked the 777 service to JFK in mid November... As this is JFK, do you think that this service will be one of the first 777 refits???
32 VV701 : And also BYGC. It was at CWL from 4 to 15 April and had flown 6 LHR-JFK-LHR rotations by 29 April. Now the focus seems to be on the conversion of 'Lo
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