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KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 23150 times:

Why on earth do KLM squeeze 10 seats in a row in Y-class when companies like Malaysia do only 8 across??
KLM has one of the tightest Y-Class cabins in the market and I did a few flights with them on Longhaul in Y -never-ever again !
They destroy a good technical immage by deteriorating their Y-class performance and squeezing 420 pasengers into a 777 ! Not a good move in my eyes,even if the bean-counters are happy.

[Edited 2007-05-12 12:05:54]


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67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 23110 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Why on earth do KLM squeeze 10 seats in a row in Y-class when companies like Malaysia do only 8 across??

Its normal. EK does it since they first got there 777-200's some 10 years ago. Thai does it also. I beleive Malaysian Airlines have a standard 9 seat across their 777's. Nothing surprising really.



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User currently offlineTineau From Netherlands, joined Nov 2001, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 23105 times:

I think emirates has 10 seats in a row in their 773's They are not that bad!

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 23088 times:

All of this talk about KLM B777-306ER monkey class.

Seriously, think about it. How many pax booking el cheapo fares will notice? Just about nobody.

I'd be more concerned Business will still have 2-3-2.



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User currently offlineParisien From France, joined Dec 2000, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 23040 times:

yes, EK indeed has 10 across on the 777, but they have a seat pitch that is more than average too (33-34, instead of 31 or 32)...I like the narrower seat but more seatpitch better than the reverse.
Now, if KL does 10 abreast and have 31/32 inches....i would try to avoid KL as I do now except for short hauls (an improvement maybe that it has IFE, but at what cost for KL Y pax ?)


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 23017 times:

31in 10-abreast isn't much different from an A330/340 or B747. Total torture anyway, so who cares if it's 3-3-3 or 3-4-3??


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User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1745 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 23017 times:

I am not surprised. KLM is little more than an LCC anyway. Their premium product isn't exactly industry standard either.


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User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22993 times:

Do they really have 10 seats? Seatguru only shows 9 seats.
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.
But to be honest, I dont remeber if it was 9 or 10. What is tight is the 31 inch pitch for the tallest people in the world (dutchmen).



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User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22970 times:

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 7):
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.

So, perhaps you can post a 77W report then??

KLM doesn't have any 777-306ER yet.



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User currently offlineAOMlover From France, joined Jul 2001, 1301 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22905 times:

AF's high-density 77Ws dedicated to the Carribean/Indian Ocean market feature a 10-abreast configuration in economy as well.

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22889 times:

Yee Gads, 10 abreast on a 777 is horrendous, it should be 9 and no more!

I flew a 777 on Thai from Delhi to Bangkok on a 10 abreast, it was the worst journey of my live in Y, and I am not big!!

Never again!


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22889 times:

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 8):
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 7):
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.

So, perhaps you can post a 77W report then??

KLM doesn't have any 777-306ER yet.

My remark referred to Longhaul Y-class with KLM irrespectively of aircraft.I'be been on 767's to the Middle East and 747's to the US,and the seat -pitch on all flghts was horrible. Servive Ok,but the "comfort " not as good as on competetive European carriers .



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User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22872 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 10):

I flew a 777 on Thai from Delhi to Bangkok on a 10 abreast, it was the worst journey of my live in Y, and I am not big!!

Perhaps something to do with the fact TG 777-200 was in 10ab with standard aisles. That config is gone.



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User currently offlineAndrewtang From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22817 times:

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 7):
Do they really have 10 seats? Seatguru only shows 9 seats.
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.
But to be honest, I dont remeber if it was 9 or 10. What is tight is the 31 inch pitch for the tallest people in the world (dutchmen).

They are talking about KLM's future new B777-300ER. Not the existing B777-200ER which you have flown  Smile


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22779 times:

Quoting Andrewtang (Reply 13):
They are talking about KLM's future new B777-300ER. Not the existing B777-200ER which you have flown

Well I hope they bin the idea, long haul 10 abreast...........to be avoided at all costs!!


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22768 times:

I'm not convinced KLM will make it 10 abreast on their 777-300s.

As people have said Emirates and a few others already do have 3-4-3 on their 777s, that's their decision. But KLM risk having a big inconsistency here if they end up with 3-3-3 on 772 and 3-4-3 on 773. That would be bad!


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22730 times:

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 15):
But KLM risk having a big inconsistency here if they end up with 3-3-3 on 772 and 3-4-3 on 773. That would be bad!

And again, how many of their once a year V class folks would notice??? None.



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User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22715 times:

KLM B77W First Destinations (by HB-IWC May 9 2007 in Civil Aviation)

KLM's 77W config has been recently discussed in this thread. The 10 abreast seems likely, but is not set in stone yet. It's still under debate.



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User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22709 times:

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):
And again, how many of their once a year V class folks would notice??? None.

Trust me, when BA had 3-3-3 on their 777s and 3-4-3 on some 777s to holiday destinations (operated under AML), customers did notice, and complaints were sky high! Hence why BA sold off AML and re-configured their 777s to be all the same!!!


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22678 times:

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 18):
Trust me, when BA had 3-3-3 on their 777s and 3-4-3 on some 777s to holiday destinations (operated under AML), customers did notice, and complaints were sky high! Hence why BA sold off AML and re-configured their 777s to be all the same!!!

Trust me, the average "once a year el cheapo to BKK" KLM pax conencting at AMS couldn't care less if it's 8 or 11 abreast. Middle seat in C, that's a whole different animal though.



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User currently offlineTommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22667 times:

I flew on EK's 777-300ER with 10 across and you'd never know the seat is only 17.5" - just like in a standard 747 Y- class seat. The only noticeable things are that the aisle is a little narrower but more legroom. I prefer a 0.5" narrower seat but with 2" more legroom anyday for long haul.

If they offer more legroom in exchange for the 10 across, or 0.5 inch less seat width, it's a good deal for everyone, especially tall people.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 22471 times:

As said in the other thread, the 10-abreast is likely but not yet absolutely sure for the B77Ws which will join the KLM fleet by the end of February 2008. If the 10-abreast configuration happens, we are likely to see an increased seat pitch for at least the first economy cabin. KLM is now looking at a front Y cabin with a 34" pitch and a rear cabin with a 32" pitch. The frnt cabin would be reserved for elite frequent flyers and higher fares, whereas the bottom fares would end up in the back of the bus. Overall configuration would be 35C/393Y.

I do find the continued presence of the middle seat in the small WBC cabin much more of a concern though. Just 5 rows of business class is already very limited as it goes, but the middle seat is absolutely out of this time for USD4,000 roundtrip tickets. Ans while KLM is contemplating adding one row to WBC for the B77W, the middle seat seems to be uncontested within the company. All of that comes at a time where a number of competitors are now boasting 1-2-1 configurations in business class with direct aisle access for every single seat.


User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 22150 times:

can anyone tell me where this 10 abreast gossip comes from?


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User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 22084 times:

it was on Flyertalk I think and re-discussed in airliners.de ...


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User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 22008 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):

Its normal. EK does it since they first got there 777-200's some 10 years ago. Thai does it also. I beleive Malaysian Airlines have a standard 9 seat across their 777's. Nothing surprising really.

...thus possibly one of the reasons (of many) as to why MH is bleeding money and AF/LH is one of the most profitable carriers in the world... Wink



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25 Lufthansa747 : Thai does not fly a single 777 in 10 abreast config. 9-abreast 34" in monkey class.
26 LH423 : You're right. Not many infrequent leisure travellers will notice but not every one in Y is a leisure traveller and not every business traveller flies
27 ETFokker50 : I've done a trip or two in KLM's 777s. It's not all that bad, the 10 abreast, especially with IFE in economy. I've had worse experiences with airlines
28 PHKLM : Impossible. The current KLM 772's feature only 9 abreast in the 3-3-3 setup. The 10 abreast config is supposedly to enter the scene on the 77W, to be
29 GeorgiaAME : I took a peek at seatguru, and there seems to be some 30 Y rows amenable to 10 across seating. 1 extra seat/row x 30 rows x let's say $400 rt of reven
30 Post contains links and images KL577 : But the B777 only operates to Singapore since 5 weeks or so? I arrived in SIN with a KLM B777 on April 2nd: View Large View MediumPhoto © Aldo B
31 Post contains links QatarA340 : Thai's 777-200's have 10-abreast config. http://airtravel.about.com/gi/dynami...tion/Aircraft_Seatmaps/B7722_l.htm Please check the link above.
32 Post contains links PHKLM : I am sorry, but on http://www.thaiair.com/Travel_Destin...tion/Aircraft_Seatmaps/default.htm I cannot find a single 777 with 3-4-3. They all seem to
33 Beeweel15 : Lets have a survey: If you had a choice on a 777-200/300 with the same amount of seats 1 - Would you like 9 abreast seating with 31/32in pitch or 2 -
34 Swissgabe : Malaysia Airlines does have a 2-5-2 configuration which gives 9 abrest. I don't think there are any carriers having 8 abrest in Economy Class in any
35 SSTsomeday : I think it's shameful. The 747 was originally configured with 9 across in coach, and eventually they raised that to 10, to become the new industry st
36 Hotje : Some stupid math and don't flame me, cause it's just basic figures. On seatguru the Y-class in emirates 77W (2-class config) starts after door 2, same
37 Post contains links PC12Fan : Not according to this they don't. http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Mal...laysia_Airlines_Boeing_777-200.php
38 StarGoldLHR : KL seems to have the oldest fleet to any major EU carrier... those 737's are nearly falling apart in the air. Ive flew one of their F50's the other w
39 Post contains images PHKLM : You should separate fact from fiction. The F50 is indeed not very new and sensitive to turbulence but I'd opt for the F50 any day over a duck's back
40 DavidkunzVIE : 3-4-3 is fine. I can't see why people complain about that. Are so many people so grossly obese that an additional seat threatens their life on a 10 hr
41 BAC111 : OK, I'm know late to the debate, but LH has it exactly right. The market has spoken, it works for KL, and if you don't care for it, don't fly it.
42 JRadier : nicely backed up mate!
43 Jr : I have flown on EK's 773 with the 3-4-3 set up, and it was terrible - and i am only 5' 7. The 10 abreast is ok for short hops, but not for long hauls.
44 RedChili : Nobody has mentioned that Austrian also has 10-abreast on their 772s. I've spoken to two friends who recently made business trips on Y-class on KL 744
45 Post contains links and images Iwok : I'll go for more pitch any day. A seat that is 1/2" wide does absolutely nothing for me as opposed to getting more leg room. Look at it this way. You
46 BrianDromey : To my mind, you should fly Y+ or J if condtions in Y are so bad for you. Taking into account the amount fares have falle by, I reckon that a J trip t
47 Asiaflyer : KL changed to B777 from B747 Combi on March 26th I think. The reason was that they needed more capacity as the flight is almost always fully booked.
48 CHRISBA777ER : What layout do PK have? I dont think their Y Class layout is MH's problem - there are many more deeper seated issues there. I'd love to see them back
49 Viscount724 : [quote=JRadier,reply=42]Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 38): those 737's are nearly falling apart in the air. What are you referring to? If not mistaken, K
50 Post contains images SSTsomeday : I agree with you completely. Me neither. IFE provides a distraction / focus redirection so you forget how cramped you are. I think Southwest needs to
51 Viscount724 : And if KL maintains the current 9-abreast on 777-200ERs but goes to 10-abreast on -300ERs, that will only confuse customers.
52 WildcatYXU : I guess here's the explanation. The T7 in 9 across config is very comfortable. I don't think so. Booze is included in the fare with KL (at least it w
53 Post contains images Jacobin777 : 2-3-2 in J-class and 3-3-3 in both economy+ and economy class... ....hence why I stated "one of many"..... .........PK...well lets not go there...ey'
54 ZKNBX : It's not normal. 9 abreast is far more common. TG (long haul), SQ, CX, MH, KE, JL & NH (long haul), OZ, UA, DL, AA, CO, NZ, AC, AF (mainline long hau
55 HB-IWC : This is so much more than a gossip. As it goes, I posted this first in the other thread and it comes straight from the horse's mouth. I also said tha
56 GFFgold : Don't delude yourself that KLM won't go for option 3 - 10 abreast with 31in pitch! That's my betting. But having completely given up with KL, I won't
57 Simong : I stand to be corrected but I don't think KLM charges for drinks on Int'l sectors. In fact I don't think any major cariers other American ones charge
58 Paneuropean : First of all, I am worried about the inconsistency of KL flying with 9 abreast in their 772 and 10 on their 773's. Together with the fact they have no
59 JRadier : No, KL 763's always were 2-3-2 in the back. Don't know where that 9 came from
60 PHKLM : You are right. KLM does not charge for drink on any of their flight, no matter it is from AMS to MST or from AMS to MNL; both alcoholic and non-alcoh
61 KL577 : I was referring to the 772. My point was that compared to other (former) planes I have flown (B767, MD11, 747) in their fleet, I found the KLM 772 mu
62 Post contains links PHKLM : Quoting KL577 (Reply 61): Would be nice to see whether or not KLM management will change their mind based on public opinion. It would be very wise not
63 JoeCanuck : I flew EK from DXB to Perth a few years back and they had the 10 abreast seating. It sucked. 11 hours...not nice at all. This is after having had 6 re
64 Post contains images PHKLM : People are mixing up different seating arrangements for different KL planes, to recap: A330 - 2-4-2 B767 - 2-3-2 (phased out) B74x - 3-4-3 B772 - 3-3
65 HB-IWC : That program has nevertheless already kicked off as a pilot program in the Singapore and Manila routes. However, contrary to initial information, Fly
66 Viscount724 : Unless this has changed very recently, the only alcoholic drink available in Y class on KL flights within Europe is beer, and in a smaller than stand
67 Post contains links PHKLM : This is now offered on ALL KLM flights, including beer and wine. This is indeed a recent change in policy. Sorry, they don't plan it, they already do
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