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Aerolineas Argentinas: New MIA-GRU Service  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32889 posts, RR: 71
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Aerolineas Argentinas will start non-stop service between Miami and Sao Paulo, effective 1 September 2007:

AR 1324 EZE 0700-0947 GRU 1047-1657 MIA 313 xTuWe
AR 1325 MIA 0820-1830 GRU 1930-2225 EZE 313 xTuWe

At the same time, service on Miami-Buenos Aires will become daily. It is great to see AR maximize aircraft usage and operate Miami-Sao Paulo during the day. AR will have full traffic rights on the route. Rather than parking their plane at MIA all day, they will be able to earn revenue by sending it to Sao Paulo, a route which has seen fares soar lately.

This winter, in addition to Aerolineas Argentinas new service, American Airlines will offer four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo, TAM will offer two daily flights, and Varig will offer one.

[Edited 2007-05-12 12:47:42]


a.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1060 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4414 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
AR 1324 EZE 0700-0947 GRU 1047-1657 MIA 313 xTuWe
AR 1325 MIA 0820-1830 GRU 1930-2225 EZE 313 xTuWe

Very bad move. AR is going to fight against AA with a billion connections at MIA, with JJ with a billion connections at GRU and will fly an aircraft with a less confortable interior.

If AR flew this one via GIG/CNF/REC/SSA/BSB and so on they would have a much better chance of pulling this one off. I don't see this service lasting long.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Varig will offer one.

Gol's executives have told more than once that VRN will fly GIG-MIA but I'd rather wait and see.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4396 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Aerolineas Argentinas will start non-stop service between Miami and Sao Paulo, effective 1 September 2007:

AR 1324 EZE 0700-0947 GRU 1047-1657 MIA 313 xTuWe
AR 1325 MIA 0820-1830 GRU 1930-2225 EZE 313 xTuWe


Miami-Buenos AIires will grow to 12x weekly service which is pretty good in order to offer more options. But i doubt AR will be in condition to fight against JJ (a wide range of connections) or AA (an established huge base of customers, and a noon convenient departure). AR product on A313 is not so good as JJ or AA ! They will need to run low fares in order to attract some traffic which could be good for competition, but terrible for yields.

Also, they will run 2 EZE-GRU within 5 minutes as well as 2 GRU-EZE within 30 minutes in a very crowded route where G3 just decided to drop 2 daily flights, and LH is looking for the end of the tag GRU-EZE (with an EZE-FRA service)

I agree with AF086 that the best decision should be establish a new base in Northeast, or even a stop in Brasilia.


Felipe

[Edited 2007-05-12 19:49:01]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32889 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

I disagree that it is a bad move. This is an aircraft that would otherwise be parked on the ground all day at MIA, and it is wise to send it somewhere to make money. Is Sao Paulo the best choice? It would be nice to have seen them do something more creative, but it is the safest choice. They aren't going for the business travelers here, those are flying the redeyes. They are going for the tourist traffic, and will, without a doubt, offer the cheapest fares on the route. Plus, they will carry a lot of through traffic to Buenos Aires.


a.
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Absolutely. It least the plane isn't sitting ALL day. That is the problem to the conosur area, having those planes sit all day either here or down there. Look at what LA have done to avoid this, now they are a monster in MIA with all those daily morning departures to the south. I'm loving all the new daylights to South America.

BTW, I'm assumng that as it is a thru flight, no VISAs would be required, unlike the US


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

A few weeks ago I checked prices USA-GRU and one of the cheapest fares, if not the cheapest, offer was MIA(or NYC?)-EZE-GRU.

I think they can do pretty well. And I hope they do. We need a lot more competition.

ps: prices are very high right now - around 1K USD r/t.

[Edited 2007-05-12 21:07:45]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32889 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

Tour operators in Miami are going to love this flight.


a.
User currently offlineDonzilasse From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

With current prices around $1250 (JJ and AA) all competition is welcome. Hopefully the prices will go down this fall with both AR and RG entering the market.
Lasse


User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 1):
Very bad move. AR is going to fight against AA with a billion connections at MIA, with JJ with a billion connections at GRU and will fly an aircraft with a less confortable interior.

I totally disgree that its a AR bad move. I think that is an good options to optimize de use of its fleet using also its 5th freedom right at Sao Paulo. In the second place Aerolíneas Argentina will going for tourist traffic between Brazil and Argentina also with the high demand from Argentina to Miami. This flight is an alternative to resume its daily and traditional flight from Buenos Aires to Miami.

Maybe in the future Aerolineas can resume its daily non stop flight to MIA when the company receive its 5th A340 (A340-300) and maybe the second A343 in the near future.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32889 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 8):
Maybe in the future Aerolineas can resume its daily non stop flight to MIA when the company receive its 5th A340 (A340-300) and maybe the second A343 in the near future.

Aerolineas will be flying to Miami daily from EZE effective 1 September 2007.



a.
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3856 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Aerolineas will be flying to Miami daily from EZE effective 1 September 2007

Thanks for the information.


User currently offlineBocajoe From United States of America, joined May 2007, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

Can't wait to see VARIG back in MIA, it's a nightmare since VARIG left (prices an lack of respect for the customers). I really miss VARIG.

[Edited 2007-05-17 00:31:28]

User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3327 times:

The fleet update post of AR seems to have been locked up, but it appears that one of the three 744s is up for lease from pegasus? Is AR giving up its leases on just this one, or all three?

User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 1):
Very bad move. AR is going to fight against AA with a billion connections at MIA, with JJ with a billion connections at GRU and will fly an aircraft with a less confortable interior.

Most pax care about price. And currently prices are very high on MIA-GRU.
So, I think it is a good move.


Do you think Recife or Belho Horizonte are better options? C'mon!


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3260 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 1):
Very bad move. AR is going to fight against AA with a billion connections at MIA, with JJ with a billion connections at GRU and will fly an aircraft with a less comfortable interior.



Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 13):
Most pax care about price. And currently prices are very high on MIA-GRU.
So, I think it is a good move.

If it is cheap people will buy it and fly it.

If it is awful they will complain.

If it is still cheap they will probably buy it again next time.

AA and JJ will match the lower fares.

AJMIA


PS: I am not saying AR is awful. I have never flown them personally. I'm just pointing out that price is king.



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

True to form AJ.
There are many people that will live through a bad experience so long as they save a few $$$. We welcome the competition. More so since RG left a huge void to be filled.

Some one had explained to me why the 744 was up for lease. It seems that there is still some time left before the contract between AR and Pegasus runs out. However, since nothing is official that AR will extend for a few more years, they need to place it on "offer" well before the contract runs out, otherwise they will be left with an empty aircraft. Get my drift?
Either way unless AR get more "long haul" aircraft, I think that the lease agreement will continue!


User currently offlineLima From Argentina, joined May 1999, 1122 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

A big problem is consistency with the airline. They start a route, then after a while they drop. Unlike other airlines they are constantly changing schedules.

They have tremendous delays and is not reliable. I wanted to fly again, but last year they left me 12 hours delayed in Madrid with overall chaos. Domestic flights are apparently suffering from this situation too.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32889 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

Quoting Lima (Reply 16):
A big problem is consistency with the airline. They start a route, then after a while they drop. Unlike other airlines they are constantly changing schedules.

With the exception of JFK, their long-haul routes have been very consistent the past few years.



a.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4021 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Is Sao Paulo the best choice?

Sao Paulo has the most wealth, generates the most tourists and business travel in Brazil by far. Not a doubt, the best choice.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
They aren't going for the business travelers here, those are flying the redeyes.

However, when most flights are booked up, business travelers pick what fits their schedule even if it is with a carrier that they don't fly regularly. Aerolineas will get its share of the business market too. The early Miami departure allows for some domestic connections beyond Sao Paulo that the JJ morning Miami departure does not allow for.



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3058 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 14):
AA and JJ will match the lower fares.

As expected, AA reduced its price on GRU/GIG-ORD or TPA to US$ 799 R/T

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3708 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3027 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 18):
Sao Paulo has the most wealth, generates the most tourists and business travel in Brazil by far. Not a doubt, the best choice.

But if they flew to CNF, for example, they could work closely with agents and guarantee better fares, since they would be the only nonstop carrier to USA and Argentina all at once. Don't tell me that BHZ doesn't have premium passengers to fill a A310 in J/C class! Not to mention Y!!!


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

CNF has been tried before but it never worked. Zero connection opportunities at CNF.

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4021 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 20):
But if they flew to CNF, for example, they could work closely with agents and guarantee better fares, since they would be the only nonstop carrier to USA and Argentina all at once. Don't tell me that BHZ doesn't have premium passengers to fill a A310 in J/C class! Not to mention Y!!!

I would like to agree, but... Aerolineas would be serving CNF-MIA only and that would not be enough to sustain the flight. Much CNF traffic to the USA would still schlep to GRU and GIG to get on TAM or on the US carriers. The only way for Aerolineas to make it work would be to have very attractive interline fares through MIA and possibly that would chip away too much revenue.

There is also the fact that were Aerolineas to set up operations at CNF, it would have to hire or contract services there. If the operation were to become unprofitable, there would be exit costs - like ending contracts early and laying off people. GRU on the other hand is already an Aerolineas served airport with multiple daily flights so the additional service may be worked with little headcount or contract adjustments. That is why somebody else mentioned the GRU stop is lower risk. Maybe if GRU-MIA worked for them they'd become adventurous in the future.

I think almost all USA-Brazil service besides GRU/GIG needs to be on a US carrier, anchored in a strong, well-located US hub to capture most of the traffic to the US and some beyond. Now that TAM cut American loose, maybe American will try to line up the stars, including pushing governors and mayors to lobby ANAC on its behalf.



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32889 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 22):
Now that TAM cut American loose, maybe American will try to line up the stars, including pushing governors and mayors to lobby ANAC on its behalf.

AA winter schedule has the aircraft allocated for MIA-REC and MIA-SSA at 4x weekly each. Though if ANAC doesn't say "go ahead" soon, they'll have to delay those plans.



a.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3708 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 22):
That is why somebody else mentioned the GRU stop is lower risk. Maybe if GRU-MIA worked for them they'd become adventurous in the future.

Now, I agree with you, but perhaps that can be their mistake, since many people from BHZ will travel to Argentina this winter with current exchange rates and maybe that could be an investment rather than an adventure. AR is in a difficult position right now, surrounded by LA, JJ and G3+RG. They will need new markets. Are they going to take risks when the market is expanding or just when it cools down? I'm not saying they're commiting a mistake by choosing GRU, but I think that shows that they're not planning to stay on the route that long. It can surely make sense today, but in a few months when something better comes along, they're out.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 21):
CNF has been tried before but it never worked. Zero connection opportunities at CNF.

There is no need for connections at CNF on a CNF-MIA flight. BHZ Metro can handle it.

[Edited 2007-05-23 23:46:01]

25 AF022 : Does anyone know when the 744 leases expire?
26 EddieDude : Do you think a fare war is going to happen? Wow! That is a great fare... If I were Brazilian (or a Sao Paulo or Rio resident), I would have booked al
27 Post contains links LipeGIG : Funny Eddie is that, you need to use the MIA flights to get to TPA or MCO from GIG or GRU. And take a look.. MIA flights is being sold at higher leve
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