Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
WN First, DL Last In Cust Satisfaction Survey  
User currently offlineAzstagecoach From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6956 times:

I've seen a bunch of articles on a University of Michigan survey released today, but not the survey itself. From what I can gather, DL ranked last, UA was second-last, AA and NW were slightly better. WN was first, and CO was up there too. 20,000 people surveyed-- that's a pretty good sample IMO.

A representative article:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...articles/0515biz-airlines0515.html

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6850 times:

Quoting Azstagecoach (Thread starter):
20,000 people surveyed-- that's a pretty good sample IMO.

The amount of people sampled really doesnt matter much. What matters is the demographics you sample.



Fly Delta!
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6737 times:

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 1):
The amount of people sampled really doesnt matter much. What matters is the demographics you sample.

A good demographic cross section is important, but the larger your sample, the more reliable the study. A large sample has a greater opportunity of arriving at a demographic cross section.

-Rampart


User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1465 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6734 times:

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 1):
The amount of people sampled really doesnt matter much. What matters is the demographics you sample.

Uh huh. And what makes you think they didn't survey the right demographics, or that their results are not indicative of Delta's position relative to the rest of the airlines in the survey?



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

Quoting Azstagecoach (Thread starter):
AA and NW were slightly better. WN was first, and CO was up there too.

How do you get that from the article you posted? The only numbers quoted were an industry average of 63 with WN at 76 (only a C+ average BTW) and US Airways at 61. The only mention of CO was that it improved over last year so how do you reckon that they were up there too? And the article never mentions NW or AA so I have no idea where you are getting that they were slightly better. Post your source to the full scores if you have it but please don't make things up or take wild guesses with nothing to back you up.

I'm not saying DL or any of the others don't have their problems because they all do. WN only scores a C+ average and that was an improvement from last year. I'd love to see the full list with numbers and what questions were asked and how. I personally think the airline industry does a halfway decent job given the mess they put themselves into over the last decade. I would also argue that you might see higher numbers out of frequent fliers versus Joe Six Pack that flies once or twice a year on whomever is the cheapest and might have one bad experience to turn them off.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6666 times:

Wow... this thread was on my screen as the story came up on CNBC (I day-trade airline and railroad stocks). They said the same thing: DAL was on the bottom and WN and CO were at the top. Don't get prickly, Gator.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently onlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 975 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6636 times:

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 1):
The amount of people sampled really doesnt matter much. What matters is the demographics you sample.

Also, how does U of Mich ask questions...their survey methodology has been criticized in the past.

By the way, it didn't specify in the article linked, but UA (56 points) was last, DL second to last (59 points).

Maybe you should change the title of your thread?


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6636 times:

Quoting InnocuousFox (Reply 5):
Don't get prickly, Gator.

I'm not getting prickly but when the OP makes leaps of faith based on his opinion or a source he doesn't share while providing another source with no info it raises some red flags.

The article posted gives no info on who was polled and what the questions were. I'm not throwing out conspiracy theories ala Blackbird but I'm just curious what the criteria was for it. Like I said earlier I know that DL has their issues but to put WN up on a pedastel for a C+ average says how poorly we think of the airline industry at least according to this survey.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 3):
Uh huh. And what makes you think they didn't survey the right demographics, or that their results are not indicative of Delta's position relative to the rest of the airlines in the survey?

I didnt say they they surveyed the wrong demographics. Your putting words in my mouth. I simply said that demographics are important when conducting a survey.

[Edited 2007-05-15 16:13:36]


Fly Delta!
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1485 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

I think you should all visit aqr.com and actually educate yourselves before deciding you're not going to hold stock in something JUST because your particular airline of choice didn't come out on top. If you don't like this study then what about the DOT reports? We've placed 1st every year since 1987 in Customer Service, except for 2004 when we were in second. I think that says something.

Taken from the 2007 AQR Report:
"Southwest Airlines (WN) recorded a slight decrease in on-time arrival percentage (80.2% in 2006 from 80.7% in 2005) and an identical customer complaint rate of 0.18 per 100,000 passengers in both 2006 and 2005. Southwest Airlines is consistently the airline with the lowest customer complaint rate in the industry."



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6551 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 9):
I think you should all visit aqr.com

AQR Capital? What do they have to do with this one? I looked in the Published Papers section and there was nothing of note. All I have asked for is a link to the survey results and not an incomplete article with little to no information.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 9):
actually educate yourselves before deciding you're not going to hold stock in something JUST because your particular airline of choice didn't come out on top.

One last time since some of you seem to have a learning problem...I don't care where DL finishes or any other airline for that matter. I'm happy with DL's performance when I fly them. I've been happy with AA other than their ability to lose my luggage 3 weeks in a row and then blame me for their mishap. UA and NW have also been just fine when I've flown them as well and I've had no complaints.

I just called the OP out on stating things that were not backed up by the source he provided and requested the link to the full survey. If you folks can't understand that point then I give up.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 9):
Taken from the 2007 AQR Report:
"Southwest Airlines (WN) recorded a slight decrease in on-time arrival percentage (80.2% in 2006 from 80.7% in 2005) and an identical customer complaint rate of 0.18 per 100,000 passengers in both 2006 and 2005. Southwest Airlines is consistently the airline with the lowest customer complaint rate in the industry."

Nothing against WN or any other airline but it is a sad state of affairs when we consider an airline with a B- average as the best airline in the nation. It just shows how little we expect of the airlines.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2415 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6520 times:

Here is the complete survey.

http://www.theacsi.org/index.php?opt...ontent&task=view&id=171&Itemid=170

The survey encompasses many businesses, is released quarterly, and its methodology is above reproach by one of the best busienss schools in the country.


User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1485 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

Sorry guys, when I copied and poasted it didn't all paste...the link to AQR is this http://www.aqr.aero/.

Also, just curious, where do you get that WN's position equals B- ?

I notice our biggest problem is with luggage and I don't understand why,....we don't even have as many codeshares with other carriers and we still manage to have so many baggage issues.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6465 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 12):
Also, just curious, where do you get that WN's position equals B- ?

80% = B- in every grading system I have seen before. 95=A, 85=B, 75=C, etc. with above those being a + and below those being a - therefore 80.2 and 80.7 equals a B-.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 12):
Sorry guys, when I copied and poasted it didn't all paste...the link to AQR is this http://www.aqr.aero/.

Ok, I thought I was losing it a little bit. You're off the hook....this time.  Wink

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 12):
I notice our biggest problem is with luggage and I don't understand why,....we don't even have as many codeshares with other carriers and we still manage to have so many baggage issues.

I would only imagine that the same thing that causes trouble for the hub and spoke systems causes issues for you guys when a bag goes off to a location that it shouldn't. It might even be more of an issue when doing the point to point stuff. If you sent my bag to some far off location and it had to go through 4 cities on the cross country city hopper flight to make it to where I am would open it up for even more error. Versus the hub system where they just send it back to the hub from which it came and then out to the right outstation. Just my thought off the top of my head. Perhaps I'm offbase. Discuss! (the idea, not my sanity.)



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6423 times:

Quoting Azstagecoach (Thread starter):
DL ranked last, UA was second-last

According to the link that TVNWZ posted DL comes in second to last with a 59 while UA came in last with a 56 so the OP was wrong. In fact DL has ranked above UA every year since 1999, tied them in 1998, and onlyhad one year below UA in 1996. Nothing spectacular to be proud of but please don't post misinformation.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 11):
Here is the complete survey.

http://www.theacsi.org/index.php?opt...ontent&task=view&id=171&Itemid=170

The survey encompasses many businesses, is released quarterly, and its methodology is above reproach by one of the best busienss schools in the country.

UM does have a great B school and does do a good job with surveys. My beef was more with the OP giving out erroneous and unsourced information regardless of the airline affected.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineEIPremier From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6337 times:

So basically, WN had a 76, "Other Airlines" 75, Continental 69, NW, AA, US, DL all clustered between 59 and 61, and then UA at 56. Funny how "other airlines" is second highest performing group. I guess this would include Fl, F9, AS, B6 among others. I take most surveys with a grain of salt, but it does seem to support the idea that people are more satisfied with LCCs.

User currently offlineGlobalATL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6289 times:

Does anybody really believe polls anyway?

Stop believing in what others have to say and start thinking on your own, people.
I care more about what first hand experiences that I've felt and had over the years and believe to be the truth in my own mind rather than some university poll; and I'm a Michigander.

Didn't I hear from Jim Whitehurst say that DL has ranked 2nd in Customer Satisfaction and in On-Time rankings from the last webcast??


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 1):
The amount of people sampled really doesnt matter much. What matters is the demographics you sample.

To be more specific, it is how the customer segments are defined within the results. For instance, if this is a broad study, not taking in account customer segment (i.e. young travelers, business travelers, occassional travelers, etc.) UA and DL may have come in last. But that may not be important as the broad market is NOT who those airlines target. A more relevant study would reveal rankings based on customer segment. So for instance DL and UA may, and probably are, ranked higher with business travelers, than WN. So this study is bogus because it is comparing apples to oranges. WN goes after a different market than DL and UA.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6183 times:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18661797/

If I am reading this right, isn't DL 2nd to last and UA last?



I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6136 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
If I am reading this right, isn't DL 2nd to last and UA last?

Your reading it right.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2463 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6104 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):

Nothing against WN or any other airline but it is a sad state of affairs when we consider an airline with a B- average as the best airline in the nation. It just shows how little we expect of the airlines.

Not necessarily. It just shows that we have indicated to the airlines that low fares are the primary driver of our decision to fly one carrier over another. For major airlines, and the cost structures associated with them, margins have been reduced to razor-thin on many routes, which often translates into a very high breakeven load factor. This means airlines need to be flying fuller planes in order to make money (revenue over yield), which puts strain on a system. 80-85% systemwide load factors have become the norm in a system that is optimized for 60-70% load factors. Customers will naturally feel the pinch, but this is an operational reality in this day and age.

I would say few people consider Southwest the 'best' airline in the nation. Southwest is consistent, friendly, and good value for the money, but most majors have Southwest beat in terms of quality. Regardless, they continue to be ranked high because they deliver exactly what they promise, over and over, which is a proven recipe for success.


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2415 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6082 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 17):
To be more specific, it is how the customer segments are defined within the results. For instance, if this is a broad study, not taking in account customer segment (i.e. young travelers, business travelers, occassional travelers, etc.) UA and DL may have come in last. But that may not be important as the broad market is NOT who those airlines target. A more relevant study would reveal rankings based on customer segment. So for instance DL and UA may, and probably are, ranked higher with business travelers, than WN. So this study is bogus because it is comparing apples to oranges. WN goes after a different market than DL and UA.

Bogus is not correct. The study, if it is done like other industries they have researched that I am familiar with, does segment down as you describe. Those results are just not made available right now. These would be the overall results, and if you are involved in mass transit, you would still want the highest overall rating possible. Everybody traveling from Point A to Point B, that you serve, is a potential customer. You may target a specific demographic, but you do not want to be deficient in any category. If you are low overall, you probably are not scoring very high on any category. Correspondingly, if you are high, you probably are doing well in demographics you are not targeting--and happily selling tickets to those folks.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6024 times:

"Nothing against WN or any other airline but it is a sad state of affairs when we consider an airline with a B- average as the best airline in the nation. It just shows how little we expect of the airlines."

precisely. unless you're a first class or business class passenger, service just sucks on American domestic airlines. I have BY FAR had the best experience as a non-first/non-business class pax on Asian carriers-JAL, CA, CX, etc. The asian carriers just seem to care more about the passenger as a whole than the american carriers.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1377 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5959 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 2):
A good demographic cross section is important, but the larger your sample, the more reliable the study. A large sample has a greater opportunity of arriving at a demographic cross section.

Not necessarily. If you have a selection bias, making your sample larger actually makes it worse. The most famous historical example of this is the Literary Digest poll of the Roosevelt-Landon presidential election, which was done based on telephone and automobile ownership records, and thus heavily Republican-biased (in the Depression), cars and phones were toys of the wealthy. The huge sample size of the poll reduced the confidence intervals and margins of error on the poll to tiny bands (1 percent or so), but the poll was still off by 20 percent because of a bad sample.

http://www.theacsi.org/index.php?opt...k=view&id=46&Itemid=43#how_is_data is the FAQ section, which details the selection mechanisms for the sample. Here's the text, for those not wanting to go to the link:

Customers of all companies (and some federal agency customer segments) are selected from national and regional probability samples by screening a randomly chosen adult (age 18 to 84 for private sector companies) in each telephone household. The respondent is asked questions about the purchase and use of specific products and services purchased within specified, recent time periods (these periods vary according to the product or service). Those who qualify as respondents are then asked from which company or which brand they have purchased and responses to the ACSI survey quetions are coded as a customer interview for that company. The ACSI for each company is based on a sample of 250 customer interviews with more than 65,000 interviews conducted annually.

One thing I noticed about the sample is that it doesn't seem to break anything down by fare class for airlines. My guess is that "other carriers" consists of international carriers mainly, and that a lot of US residents flying on those are flying in F/C, and therefore are more likely to have a good experience. As for the other scores, I'd have to see a breakdown of their class flying (and also the amount of their service that is on regional carriers, which might also affect the scores) to make any other guesses.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5884 times:

Who cares, hopefully this will mean less customers flying Delta, therefore more seats for me! Seriously, who cares, it's not like these polls scare away customers. Delta's product is amazing, and their employees are even better. I don't know how they got at the bottom. Lost bags maybe?


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
25 Antoniemey : You've not been in a Nashville, TN high school, then. For some reason the grading scale there is 93-100 = A, 85-92 = B, 77-84 = C, and 70-76 = D... a
26 AvConsultant : Are you serious? The survey factor's in EV, OH, & Freedom. What percentage of DL domestic product is operated with connection carriers?
27 Lemurs : The survey results would suggest there are a number of people who have a different definition of "amazing" than you. Remember folks, most people aren
28 Alitalia744 : Well, that logic won't keep DL out of BK for long. Less customers and more seats for non-revs means DL isn't filling the planes...
29 Rampart : Nor is there necessarily a selection bias. I can see you have some background in statistical methods in surveys, but the first attack of the half-edu
30 777fan : Well, they didn't ask me but as a UA PE, I would be inclined to concur that UA's service has sucked as of late. Morale is pathetically low and it sho
31 Post contains links and images ExFATboy : The reporting on the same survey in USA Today played up the fact that the airline industry average was slightly lower than the rating for the IRS. I t
32 Typhaerion : Although I know I am preaching to the choir on this one, In response to the comments attached to that USA Today Article: I think that both sides are r
33 IADCA : I'd agree with that assessment. Looking at the sample size and methods, it looked okay to me, but it doesn't give a real good breakdown of the subsam
34 Rampart : Understood, IADCA, and thanks for the clarification. I don't fly that much international myself, only enough to get a taste of it about once a year a
35 Jbernie : When it comes to surveys, I would love to be able to see one which only relates to issues within the Airlines control. I would presume (right or wrong
36 Post contains images DCrawley : "Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that." -Homer Simpson
37 WorldTraveler : Posting a thread with inaccurate information is inexcusable, esp. in the title. The thread should be deleted as a lesson to other posters to make sure
38 Evan767 : Don't worry I was joking. That's why I said the word, "Seriously". I was trying to get my point across of, "Who Cares?"
39 Lemurs : Am I the only one here who's surprised and impressed that WorldTraveler commented on this thread to condemn the results entirely, while defending Delt
40 WorldTraveler : I'm not defending DL. But I can't stand to see facts used incorrectly. You might not like the conclusions I come to but I at least quote the facts cor
41 Halcyon : I'd certainly agree that Delta is last (But tied with UA.). I also think that WN is very high up there for being the best, but I am sad that Delta is
42 Apodino : One thing I found interesting is that the three worst airlines on the study were UA, DL, and AA. The best ones were WN, CO, NW, and US. A related arti
43 VictorKilo : This survey helps to build a case that WN has a competitive advantage over AA, UA, DL, NW, and US because of its ability to keep its customers more sa
44 FlyPNS1 : Yes, the network carriers do provide a more complex product. However, much of the complexity is there own making. No one forces the network carriers
45 SCCutler : Well, WN does not have a first-class cabin... but if you are contending Southwest does not cater to business travelers, you are most confused. Busine
46 Ctermua : I'd have to disagree with that assumption, at least as it relates to United. United is fairly good on the baggage front..and very good on the IDB fro
47 Iwok : Yep you have a point. Try doing a day before flight with UA and the majors and a you have exhorbidant pricing and a seat basically in the middle of t
48 Azstagecoach : I see that I switched the last and second-to-last airlines in the OP. Apologies all around. No offense intended. Perhaps the mod could fix the title?
49 Goingboeing : Please cite some areas...Most majors have less legroom, less frequent flights, less nonstop point to point flights. I actually was scheduled to take
50 Airlinespotter : You are Not defending DL? Did I miss something? Dude, you might have the word Delta in your name somewhere. Who knows, you might eat Delta food, you
51 CODC10 : This forum is getting like a high school research paper...everyone asking you to cite this, find a source for that, back up the other thing...what ev
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New DL Colors In CVG posted Fri May 4 2007 20:58:49 by ComairGuyCVG
DL CEO Visits SLC Celebrates DL, Europe In Future posted Wed May 2 2007 19:00:04 by SlcDeltaRUmd11
One Of First FedEx 757s In Bangor Now posted Fri Mar 2 2007 12:13:36 by ChrisNH
Flashback:DL 727 In ATL. posted Thu Jan 25 2007 01:57:40 by United_Fan
First 747 Lands In LHR 37 Years Ago Today posted Mon Jan 22 2007 18:02:41 by Treeny
2 WN Planes Bump Tails In San Diego posted Wed Dec 27 2006 08:20:13 by Lt-AWACS
The First And Last Andorra Aviation Thread posted Tue Dec 12 2006 17:32:55 by SwissA330
First PK 773ER In The Air At PAE posted Fri Dec 8 2006 18:46:37 by RobK
First And Last Of Production Where Are They? posted Sat Sep 16 2006 03:24:14 by JAM747
DL 757 In "97" Scheme? posted Tue Sep 5 2006 03:40:25 by KSUpilot