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Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB  
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5140 posts, RR: 12
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8604 times:

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...ews/publish/article_10010081.shtml


Ryanair is reported to have offered to sell Aer Lingus landing slots at London's Heathrow airport in a bid to win European Commission approval for a takeover of the former Irish State airline

The European Commission has until July 4th to decide on Ryanair's offer, which was made two weeks after the Aer Lingus IPO, last Octiober. The bid originally valued Aer Lingus at €1.48 billion.




Will this be enough for approval? And are BA and AF interrested in the LHR-DUB route? Guess the LHR slots will rather be used for intercontinental expansion.

KL911

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 8542 times:

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair is reported to have offered to sell Aer Lingus landing slots at London's Heathrow airport in a bid to win European Commission approval for a takeover of the former Irish State airline

I don't see why this should help them. EU objections surround 95% monopoly that Ryanair would achieve in Dublin. Selling LHR slots won't change that. In fact that proves that FR real plan is to dismantle EI short haul arm and take over the traffic. Easy to give up what's not yours.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 8519 times:

London - Dublin is the one city pair where Ryanair & Aer Lingus have compitition from several other airlines. The main concern seems to be the monopoly that would be created on other routes. Selling the LHR slots would not change that.

User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 8507 times:

As Danny said, it's very clear Ryanair just want to get rid of Aer Lingus. They will sell their Major slots in Europe and use the long-haul flights as an experiment for long-haul low cost travel.

User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5140 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 8386 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
As Danny said, it's very clear Ryanair just want to get rid of Aer Lingus. They will sell their Major slots in Europe and use the long-haul flights as an experiment for long-haul low cost travel.

Do you think EI's A330's will be painted in FR livery for longhaul operations? I can see longhaul work, as with Oasis to HKG from LON. Just economy and a few business class seats. Pay for what you use, like food, drinks, bagage and IFE. If it saves me a lot I prefer to bring a book and my own sandwiches..

Same concept as FR in Europe. I never need food or drinks on a max 2 hour flight, have a book and no check-in luggage.
If that gets me 10 euro OW flights I'm more then willing to take them.

Just for tax amounts, will FR use secondary airports longhaul as well? Like STN-ACY ?



Atlantic City International Airport covers 5,000 acres and has two runways:

Runway 4/22: 6,144 x 150 ft. (1,873 x 46 m), Surface: Asphalt/Concrete
Runway 13/31: 10,000 x 150 ft. (3,048 x 46 m), Surface: Asphalt

KL911


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8315 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 4):
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
As Danny said, it's very clear Ryanair just want to get rid of Aer Lingus. They will sell their Major slots in Europe and use the long-haul flights as an experiment for long-haul low cost travel.

Do you think EI's A330's will be painted in FR livery for longhaul operations?

They cant. Its part of the agreement to privatise Aer Lingus that its identity must remain. There is also a clause that they must keep the majority of the LHR slots for a set period of years. I dont think Ryanair will get anywhere with this.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8287 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 5):
I dont think Ryanair will get anywhere with this.

Here's hoping, god forbid that FR gets their paws into EI!


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8230 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 1):
Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair is reported to have offered to sell Aer Lingus landing slots at London's Heathrow airport in a bid to win European Commission approval for a takeover of the former Irish State airline

I don't see why this should help them. EU objections surround 95% monopoly that Ryanair would achieve in Dublin. Selling LHR slots won't change that. In fact that proves that FR real plan is to dismantle EI short haul arm and take over the traffic. Easy to give up what's not yours.

While I have no doubt that FR would get rid of EI short haul, they would also have to get rid of most of the DUB slots EI has. As I remember, FR and EI have about 50% and 25% of the DUB slots, for a total of 75%. I remember seeing comments in the press months ago that they would have to limit it to about 50% to get EC approval.

As for getting rid of the EI slots at LHR, there are legal issues with it -- the Irish government has gone on record as being opposed to it and with some 25% of the stock they can block the sale.

http://www.ise.ie/app/announcementDetails.asp?ID=1309588

Gonna be an interesting July 4 in Europe this year, with lots and lots of fireworks.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8048 times:
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The Irish Government considers those LHR slots to be like the family silver. They are vital to Ireland economy, as England and Ireland have huge integration.

User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8044 times:

I hope Ryanair does take over Aer Lingus.

At the end of the day Ryanair won't overprice Irish tickets, as with EU open skies.. someone else will move in.
Aer Lingus is a wannabe airline which is really only adding to congestion rather than contributing to the EU as an airline.

Ireland will gain a low cost operator as a national airline, whilst the old airline will become the largest long haul low cost in the industry.

Cheap flights for all.

So what if you have to pay for a drink and run for a seat.. when EI wants £200 for a ticket and FR wants £20.. who's complaining about running to a seat and leaving early with it !!

Who needs a national flag carrier anyway ? What do they do apart from charge more than the rest.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5140 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8017 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
The Irish Government considers those LHR slots to be like the family silver. They are vital to Ireland economy, as England and Ireland have huge integration.

Why would a government care about slots? Even if FR 'eats' EI and sells slots there will always be another carrier to fill a gap if the market is there. LHR - DUB is save and will always be flown by whatever airline.

I don't see the problem. And is DUB that busy that they have a slot system?

KL911


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5140 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8002 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
So what if you have to pay for a drink and run for a seat.. when EI wants £200 for a ticket and FR wants £20.. who's complaining about running to a seat and leaving early with it !!

Finally a normal comment about this, not influenced by national pryde, or by persons rich enough to pay the high EI fares

KL911


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7960 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
Aer Lingus is a wannabe airline which is really only adding to congestion rather than contributing to the EU as an airline.

Well, they are a wannabe airline, I'll give them that...

No alliance, very poor Frequent Flyer programme...

The only redeeming factor is their long haul, which is up there with any airline in Y and poor in J.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
Ireland will gain a low cost operator as a national airline, whilst the old airline will become the largest long haul low cost in the industry.

That would be ideal - Ryanair short haul (hell, rebrand as Aer Lingus!) and with the cost base Ryanair has, Aer Lingus becoming a true player long haul for once...

Though, saying that on the streets of Ireland would have me lynched. The people here are very fierce about Aer Lingus and loathe Ryanair... while at the same time giving most of their business to Ryanair! It's a weird one...



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

Dublin had 21.4 million passengers last year -- More than four times the population of Ireland.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 11):
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
So what if you have to pay for a drink and run for a seat.. when EI wants £200 for a ticket and FR wants £20.. who's complaining about running to a seat and leaving early with it !!

Finally a normal comment about this, not influenced by national pryde, or by persons rich enough to pay the high EI fares

I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7939 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 13):
I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.

Try a different city pair... lowest I could get for August on DUB-VIE-DUB was € 220.00.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7885 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 14):
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 13):
I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.

Try a different city pair... lowest I could get for August on DUB-VIE-DUB was € 220.00.

Mid July again, DUB-MAD-DUB €103 incl. taxes and charges.
Mid August, DUB-AMS-DUB €120 incl. taxes and charges.


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5140 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7845 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 13):
I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.

17 Jul LGW - DUB 18 JUL DUB-LGW with FR. 20 GBP incl tax..... EI is 150% more expensive..


KL911


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7810 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 15):
Mid July again, DUB-MAD-DUB €103 incl. taxes and charges.
Mid August, DUB-AMS-DUB €120 incl. taxes and charges.

I understand you love EI - I didn't mean to imply they were expensive. I was just pointing out that not all the air fares are as cheap as your original example. Just trying to be balanced  Smile



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7378 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7786 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
17 Jul LGW - DUB 18 JUL DUB-LGW with FR. 20 GBP incl tax..... EI is 150% more expensive

Ryanair must have lots of unsold seats then!


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7770 times:

Fair enough, there is no doubting Ryanair is cheap. I just dont get the "Aer Lingus is so overpriced and the service is not worth it" with £79 being the highest fare for mid July and £40 being the lowest I dont understand why people refer to Aer Lingus as if the airline hasn't changed since the 1980s!
Fares are lower, service is better and I still fly them like 8.6 million other people do not because Aer Lingus is Irish and we feel we have too but because they are doing something right.

I understand what you mean ClassicLover, this site is all about different views and sides to the story. We could do with a few people like this on the Irish thread some more, just dont get too out of hand we have already had one warning!

[Edited 2007-05-15 19:54:04]

User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 19):
Fares are lower, service is better and I still fly them like 8.6 million other people do not because Aer Lingus is Irish and we feel we have too but because they are doing something right.

I fly them all the time as well - usually to LHR to connect to BA elsewhere in Europe (as they have Club and I'm a slave to my QF programme!)  Smile

I've only flown Ryanair for business because our company has us going to places like Leeds Bradford and we don't have any other choice.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 19):
I understand what you mean ClassicLover, this site is all about different views and sides to the story. We could do with a few people like this on the Irish thread some more, just dont get too out of hand we have already had one warning!

Whenever I posted on the Irish threads I didn't get much response, found it to be too cliquey for my liking to be honest.

Anyway, I back on topic, I don't think the EC will approve anything to do with the Ryanair offer. I don't see why trading off Heathrow slots would have anything to do with the takeover.

As far as I was aware, the Ryanair takeover was a non-starter due to the people who hold shared and not selling... is there more to this than I know?



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7677 times:

I doubt selling off LHR slots would help FR and its takeover attempt in anyway unless FR plan in selling some of it's own slots somewhere, that may go down well but I doubt Ryanair would do anything like that!

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 20):
As far as I was aware, the Ryanair takeover was a non-starter due to the people who hold shared and not selling... is there more to this than I know?

Even if they do get the go ahead it would be very difficult but not impossible for FR to get the 50.1% they need.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26978 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7642 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
17 Jul LGW - DUB 18 JUL DUB-LGW with FR. 20 GBP incl tax..... EI is 150% more expensive..

EI do not fly to LGW!! Please when comparing do like for like as its misleading. I am by no means a fan of EI. I would not fly with them long haul but their EU services are fine. Prices are good if you book early. July and Aug is peak . Many times I have tried to book clients on flights and on peak dates and late notice there is not that much between them.

20 JULY 2007 DUB TO AGP 27 JULY 2007 AGP DUB FR EUR 271.79 EI EUR 235.79

This thing about FR being cheaper is a myth. Its 50/50 sometimes FR are cheaper and sometimes EI are cheaper.


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7623 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
I would not fly with them long haul but their EU services are fine

Not even on the new A330s, think Qatar Airways economy class but green  Wink


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26978 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7597 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 23):
Not even on the new A330s, think Qatar Airways economy class but green

Are you on drugs !!! LOL.....QR Y class have you seen what they offer lately ??? LOL....


25 KL911 : Are you out of your head? QR is one of the best carriers around at the moment for comfort and style. Together with EK and EY IMO. KL911
26 Shamrock350 : Two new A330s will arrive within the month with new lie flat angled seats in Premier. The whole aircraft will be fitted out with a new Panasonic IFE
27 Post contains links Poitin : The issue is that they do care. Vehemently. It may or may not make sense to you or anyone else, but JFK777 is absolutely correct. FR will not be allo
28 Post contains images OA260 : When EI have PTV's in all AC in all classes coupled with the upgraded Y class catering similar to EY and QR then I will take a trip on them. At the m
29 Post contains images Shamrock350 : Lets just hope EI prove it to us on their website not just tiny pics on their website of poor old EI-SHN! Well I have been saving some money and the s
30 StarGoldLHR : RyanAir is Irish and 10x bigger ... which one is doing more "right" of the two. At the end of the day Aer Lingus is a flag carrier, over staffed, und
31 Post contains images ClassicLover : Can't argue with that at all.
32 Rivet42 : Have you not heard of a company called Virgin Atlantic Airways....?
33 ClassicLover : I don't think they fly intra europe short haul on anything like Ryanair's scale, which I think was his point...
34 Pe@rson : Or at all.
35 OA260 : Hey Pe@rson hope all is well with you !!! Knew you would be on a FR thread sometime lol.... VS only ever did one route from my knowledge and it was L
36 VV701 : Hyperbole or substance? I've just checked the EI web site. I chose 22 May (a week today) for my DUB-LHR flight. Price? 1 Euro (but 39 Euros if I had
37 Post contains images Ei564 : Hmm. How in the world does EI compete with FR considering all the numerous advantages you seem to think it has? Just because FR is bigger than EI on
38 RonBurgundy : Have to agree with Ei564. When easyJet took over Go, the competition on the BFS-Scottish routes stopped overnight. You used to be able to travel BFS-G
39 JWMD123 : I think you will find that on short haul EI are second to FR on costs (not sure of the source but has been quoted many times in the irish press) Staf
40 Flyingchoirboy : Why exactly does FR have slots at LHR? They have never served LHR and will probably never do so due to it's high operating costs. Thanks, Scott
41 Rineanna : It doesn't, Aer Lingus does. If the takeover goes through then they'll have control over EI's slots there.
42 Poitin : I think the issue of LHR slots should FR take over EI is moot. There are only 12 or 13 and in the end don't make that much difference. Of much greate
43 Post contains links and images KL911 : As far as I know FR carries the Irish flag on all of it's planes which makes it a flag carrier.. View Large View MediumPhoto © Fabrice Sanchez -
44 Humberside : They make a huge difference to EI's largest shareholder (the Irish Government). The EU can make all the decisions they want to but the Irish governme
45 Poitin : Oh, you are absolutely right about the Irish government going ballistic over the LHR slots. I never doubted that. My point is that the DUB slots a co
46 Humberside : I thought one of the reasons for the Irish Government retaining its stake in EI was the LHR slots, so I guess there is something in place that allows
47 EI564 : I read in one of the Irish daily papers that the government just needs 30% of the shareholders to block the sale of any LHR slots. Interesting. They a
48 Poitin : Irish Stock law is not my strong point, but I believe that a minority interest (30%) can block an action that would hurt it. This is possibly what th
49 Toulouse : No way! I, like many, can't stand Ryanair. And I admit Ryanair attracts huge numbers of pax, mas an incredible business model, and has done alot in b
50 Post contains images VV701 : I believe EI operates 13 daily rotations to DUB, 5 to SNN and 4 to ORK from LHR. EI has been operating into LHR longer than most: and since long befo
51 EISHN : You're only considered a flag carrier if the flag is incorperated into your livery, but it also means that you are the national airline. So LH is the
52 VV701 : Thanks for the correction. But at least I got the number of LHR slots right!
53 Rivet42 : None of those airlines are solely state-owned any more, therefore they are no longer 'national' airlines, and therefore no longer 'flag' carriers. Th
54 Post contains images Poitin : I read somewhere that MOL offered to give up 13 LHR slots as part of the deal to take over EI and that is what I was referring to -- sorry I wasn't c
55 VV701 : I do not disagree. Certainly it is an outdated notion in most large states. For example which airline is Brazil's Flag Carrier? Were Sabena or Swissa
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