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HeartLand After Legend?  
User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 887 times:

They'll never make it now. What with National in Chap 11 too... and as I said in a previous post I just have the feeling that JetBlue is running through cash like a pastor through a whorehouse.

Sorry Dc-9cap. Any more insight?

PS: If your only argument is that the 717 will have lower jet fuel costs than L7's 9's than you don't have a case.

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 866 times:

Russ,

I agree on Heartland not being a viable concept. However... I think that Jet Blue reported they are profitable already.

Al


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 845 times:

I keep hearing Heartland's route structure will be very similar to Piedmont's. Wouldn't that include some medium-sized markets? And also Heartland had indicated some regional-feed. Didn't Legend focus on the big-markets only? Just wondering if it is really fair to compare the two as they seem to have two different models.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 838 times:

JetBlue just turned a profit earlier this year. In addition, they expected to lose around $5 million in their first year.

They've budgeted for this and other eventualities.

When National Airlines filed for chapter 11, that doesn't mean they have to stop flying. In fact, I think this was a strategic move. By filing for chapter 11 they got all their debts removed and got the time to restructure their management.

I hardly think they're bankrupt. Chapter 11, doesn't necessarily mean bankrupt.

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5494 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 830 times:

After 7 or so months of service, jetBlue was making a profit. I think they will stick around....

User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 824 times:

Neil:

"When National Airlines filed for chapter 11, that doesn't mean they have to stop flying. In fact, I think this was a strategic move....."

Indeed, we all read the scripted P.R., but let me remind you that Chapter 11 while not signaling fatal problems is serious indeed. Let me also remind you, that "chapter 11" refers to Chapter 11 of the Bankrputcy Code so technically while N7 may not be out of money, they are bankrupt.

Chapter 11 proceedings are very serious yet very interesting. Companies routinely place themselves in chapter 11 so as not to default on their obligations. Al, as a future airline honcho, probably knows a ton more about this than me, but my dad is a banker and he's explained it to me fairly well. Apparently, when a company files for chapter 11, all obligations are off. Thats pretty serious when you owe great deals of money to lenders, investors, venders etc....Everything gets tied up in courts now, and National has the opportunity to "reorganise" effectively removing themselves from many monetary obligations. While this seems a terrrific opportunity for struggling companies to reemerge from difficult times, it has a catch of course.

Companies that file for this protection are no longer as gleeming and credible. This certainly is a stain on their record and future investors will be more cautious when investing in the airline, for obvious reasons. If they filed chpt. 11 again, than they stand to lose much of their investment depending on where they are in the que.

You see it can get very complicated, as National emerges, it will attempt to repay its obligations and now that its finances are shaky, those owed money are going to line up and often times fight to get preferential status as to who gets money first and what proportion of whats owed is actually returned.

Thankfully, it appears that N7 is not in an emergency situation like Legend and Reeve, they have enough cash to continue operations and fully expect to reemerge. Also, times are good and National is fundamentally a good company, very very low costs, so all bets are they will survive, but don't trust the P.R. that strongly, chapter 11 bankrputcy protection is fairly serious, so there is something going on behind the scenes that may not be as beautiful and happy as Conway makes it out to be.

Regards,
Russell


User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 828 times:

I will update my resume and send it into Heartland when:

(A). ALPA represents their pilot group.

(B). I find out they only have a six month probationary period.

(C). I can sign a first year contract that offers starting pay exceeding $42.52 per flight hour with a guarantee of 85 hrs per month.

(D). I can upgrade in 2 years or less and get paid $140.53 per flight hour with a guarantee of 85 hours per month.

(E). They make their west coast crew hotel the RITZ-CARLTON Laguna Nigel.


User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 807 times:

"They'll never make it now......Sorry Dc-9cap. Any more insight?"


I wish I had some insight, but I can tell you that "never" is a pretty strong word.

Quite frankly, I was surprised when Legend released the news, because they are (were) following (followed) what I thought was a pretty strong model.

Makes me wonder about Heartland.

But I can tell you one thing I'm beginning to believe: There is no one model for guaranteed success in this industry. No one would have given a dime for southwest after de-regulation; in the meantime Donald Burr was a household name. After Lorenzo put together the Texas Air house of cards, I thought Continental was going to go belly up. Look where it is now.

There's several more airlines waiting to come on line with the same Midwest Express/Legend service: Cardinal and Crystal. That will be interesting to watch unfold too.

Then we have ACVITALE trying to start up Midwest Wings. My advice to him is to get a guaranteed partnership in writing before he crews up his planes. That and give Cody Dieckroger (former COEX Dash 7 Driver and founder of Maverick) a call over at Colgan. While he's at it, take EAU off his route map.

Insight: a big wallet and cast iron stomach.



User currently offlineFleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 798 times:

Russ, your own beloved Trans World has sought the shelter of Chapter 11 TWICE in the 90's correct?





Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 764 times:

FS: You better believe it!

There's no denying it TWA has seen some serious trouble recently and even to an extent today is suffering the repercussions of those troubles. While my handle may be TWAneedsNOhelp, trust me, TWAneedsHELP.



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