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Who Will Take ANA's 747-400Ds?  
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6455 times:

With ANA phasing out all 747s, who will take the 747Ds? JAL? Who else would use these short-range domestics?

**Bonus if you can list who took any of the 747SRs.


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23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

They can be modified to regular 747-400 so other carriers would take it.

User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6241 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
They can be modified to regular 747-400 so other carriers would take it.

Yes, but the number of cycles will be huge - my HND-CTS flight at Christmas was only 1.5 Hrs!

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
**Bonus if you can list who took any of the 747SRs.

Most have been scrapped. QR used two of them between 1995 and 1999, while Atlas Air bought some to get GE-engines for their ex. SQ PW-powered B742s, and perhaps spare parts too.

NH B747s & KZ B747s

Cheers.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6676 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

What about converting them to freighters? There's plenty of demand for those.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
They can be modified to regular 747-400 so other carriers would take it.

That's true, add back the fuel tanks and winglets then they could go almost anywhere. Maybe JAL could take them since they also operate the 744D.



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

How bout Oasis Hong Kong? They could convert them to regular 400 stats. Also, UPS could get them and convert them to F standards.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6154 times:

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 2):
They can be modified to regular 747-400 so other carriers would take it.
Yes, but the number of cycles will be huge

Well, at least NH is not a complet newcomer to such conversion. At least two of their B747-481D served for a while as B747-481 before being converted back for domestic ops.

JA8955 was delivered in May 1992 as a -481D, was converted to -481 and operated as such between 12/1996 and 10/2001, before reverting to -481D.


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Same for JA8957. The aircraft was used as a -481 between 04/1997 and 04/2002.



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[Edited 2007-05-16 21:40:33]

User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6063 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 4):
What about converting them to freighters? There's plenty of demand for those.

Wouldn't they be at a disadvantage because they were built stronger (heavier) to withstand more cycles?

I wonder if the 777's will be able to withstand all the short flights?

[Edited 2007-05-16 22:08:15]


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offline787EWR From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5984 times:

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 8):
Wouldn't they be at a disadvantage because they were built stronger (heavier) to withstand more cycles?

I would think with modifications, this would not be an issue. I would further assume that they would go through a D check(allowing for such modifications) before going back into service.

I wonder if the 777's will be able to withstand all the short flights?

I was unaware that they were using 777s for domestic services, although financially, it makes perfect sense. Not to answer a question with a question, but has Boeing created a 777 Domestic version?


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 912 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5946 times:

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 9):
Not to answer a question with a question, but has Boeing created a 777 Domestic version?

Not exactly, but the 777-200 or 777-300 (non ER) would be suitable for domestic operations. However, the 787-3 would likely be an even better choice.

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
With ANA phasing out all 747s, who will take the 747Ds? JAL? Who else would use these short-range domestics?

ANA is not (yet) phasing out the 747-400D. They are only retiring the 747 on long-haul international routes. The -400D will be around for some time.


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5741 times:

By the time NH and JL start retiring 744Ds, they will be approximately 20 years old and airframe cycles will be sky high. Any second-hand carrier will balk at the prospect of putting money in an airframe that will have extensive conversion costs and little remaining airframe cycles. Just like most of the 747SRs, they will be stripped of any valuables such as engines and scrapped at MZJ, VCV, or MHV.

Most of the NH 747-481s that are going to be retired the next couple of years have buyers. A few are going to Oasis in Hong Kong and a few to Air Atlanta Iceland for cargo conversion or charter config.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 9):
Boeing created a 777 Domestic version?

In short, no.
NH & JL both operate basic 772 & 773 for their domestic operations.
However, they are both certified at the lowest gross weights.
(Why? Reduced fees all across the board. Why carry excess weight or certification around for an aircraft that would fly at maximum 2.5 hours.)


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5614 times:

Maybe EK can take them for The Haj shuttles between DXB and JED?!


come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

OX took 2 ex-JAL 74R's.


Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineAfterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 12):
Maybe EK can take them for The Haj shuttles between DXB and JED?!

Hajj pilgrimage only happens once a year. What will EK do about them for the rest of year?


User currently offlineWCS From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 255 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5489 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
They can be modified to regular 747-400 so other carriers would take it.
Hi,

Sorry to answer a question by another but how far are going the modification for a "D" model? Is it just a matter of cabin conf', or is there anything more?

[edit] I saw on the picture that the winglets re gone, so I assume that isn't just a matter a cabin. I will be glad to learn about others modifications!

[Edited 2007-05-17 04:38:47]


FLY SKYTEAM JETS
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 8):
Wouldn't they be at a disadvantage because they were built stronger (heavier) to withstand more cycles?

I was also under the impression that the Ds were heavier than a stock 744 because of reinforced floors and a couple of other things.

Wouldn't reconverted Ds be heavier than other 744s?


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5390 times:

Quoting WCS (Reply 15):
Sorry to answer a question by another but how far are going the modification for a "D" model? Is it just a matter of cabin conf', or is there anything more?

If a 744D model is to be converted to a typical int'l configuration various plumbing work will have to be done beacuse the 744D don't have nearly the number of toilets as standard int'l ones and then there's the question of galleys, which 744Ds have very minimal of.
As for the airframe, the landing gear and surrounding structure is beefed up due to the the obvious.
The brake fan in the landing gear can probably be taken-off easily. This is due to a normal 744 doesn't see six cycles in a day!
I am not sure of other differences but there are probably some other minor details.

Of course, if a carrier wants to convert a 744D into a cargo config, all the pax systems are just ripped out and end of story. However, again considering the number of cycles, only two are probably going to be candidates for any future work: JA401A & JA402A, which have only recently (5/6 years ago) been converted to a 744D and airframe itself is about 10 years old. If I am not mistaken, I have seen a story on these two aircraft are indeed leaving in the next two years.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 2):
Yes, but the number of cycles will be huge - my HND-CTS flight at Christmas was only 1.5 Hrs!

But those cycles are accounted for differently when the aircraft is operated within the "D" parameters (which includes lower weights, etc).

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 8):
Wouldn't they be at a disadvantage because they were built stronger (heavier) to withstand more cycles?

Does anyone have a source for the "beefing" up? I know it was true for the SRs, but with the 400D's I believe the reverse is true; Boeing did everything to lighten the birds, and then built a different MX process for aircraft operated within the "D" parameters of lower landing weights, lower taxi and takeoff weights, etc. The stab tank was omitted, for example, because not having it and the associated plumbing saved significant weight.

Steve


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 14):
Hajj pilgrimage only happens once a year. What will EK do about them for the rest of year?

Hence the ?! on the end of my comment!



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Doesn't the lower MTOW make 400D's unsuitable for cargo opns?


A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

Could Boeing take them and make them into LRFs for the 787 program??

User currently offlineCyclonic From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 231 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3367 times:

Would it be wrong of me to say that I might feel uncomfortable flying on an aircraft with such high cycles and long life?
Or am I mistaken?

Either way, sad to see them go - have always wanted to see them in action.



Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 7):
Well, at least NH is not a complet newcomer to such conversion. At least two of their B747-481D served for a while as B747-481 before being converted back for domestic ops.

NH also does this with their 777 fleet. Four of the International cofiguration 772 are currently being converted to domestic configuration.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 17):
If a 744D model is to be converted to a typical int'l configuration various plumbing work will have to be done beacuse the 744D don't have nearly the number of toilets as standard int'l ones and then there's the question of galleys, which 744Ds have very minimal of.

Not too tough of a job to install the applicable potable water supply, sink / floor drains and vacuum waste system plumbing.
Heath Tecna, Flight Structures and Jamco do this sort of work all the time.

Tod


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