OceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15432 times:
Quoting YULYMX (Reply 2): Would guess: Europe is smaller than North America no need for a 5-6 hours flight type of plane like we use in the USA-
A320 and B737 was enough to deliver the need?
Swissair used to fly from GVA and ZRH to LHR with A310-200s. Air France (6), KLM (10), Lufthansa (12), Sabena (2) were among the other regular European carriers operating the Airbus in Europe. Not to speak of the A300B4 operators. IIRC, IB was a late comer for the B757 while BA replaced its Tridents with it, and somehow filed a gap between the TriStars and the B737s.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4481 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15379 times:
The typical US continental routes needed slightly bigger airplanes then the European networks. That's also a reason the 727 was so popular in the USA but not as much in Europe.
In the late 1970s when airlines started to think about their 1985-2000 fleets, the backbone of most European airlines seated around 110 pax; KLM, Swissair, Iberia, Alitalia, SAS (DC-9), Air France (Caravelle) , Lufthansa (737) etc while all the US airlines had aircraft seating around 160 as backbone, all had 727s, TWA and American also 707s, UAL and DL also DC-8s, all of which could be replaced by 757s.
In the meantime, frequency in the US also became more important, and both in Europa and the US the 737 and A-320 is the typical aircraft now for flights under 5 hours.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
CV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15335 times:
Quoting Baexecutive (Reply 6): Dunno if Greenlandair counts as its not geographically in Europe but they use the B757
Regions and territories: Greenland
Greenland is the world's largest island. Formerly a province of Denmark, it gained the status of an autonomous Danish dependent territory with limited self-government as well as its own parliament in 1979.
DHL also operate about 34 B757F's
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
RB211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15261 times:
Quoting LY777 (Thread starter): was wondering why the 757 was not popular with European national carriers? I mean, AFAIK only BA and IB fly them! why?
ps: I am not talking about charter airlines
Funny I didn't really notice it until you brought it up. The 757 was supposed to be a replacement for the 727. BA ferried some of theirs over here to BFM (Mobile Aerospace Engineering) for freighter conversion to be delivered to DHL. I guess it's one of those unsolved mysteries like why is it all of a sudden that they're in demand again.
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
6YJJK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15135 times:
Quoting YULYMX (Reply 2): Would guess: Europe is smaller than North America no need for a 5-6 hours flight type of plane carring 180 pax
BA, Finnair, Iberia (and Icelandair, maybe) - interesting that these are all on the "edges" of Europe. I wondered whether somewhere more central might not have been able to use them economically without the long cross-Europe flights.
But BA use them on tiny intra-UK hops. Are they the exception that proves the rule?
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15077 times:
When the 757 was introduced in the mid-1980s (its primary mission was a 727-200 replacement), it did not gather much interest from European scheduled/flag carriers......European carriers replaced their early 727 and 72S aircraft with 737s and the then-new A320 by passing the 757. The Europeans airlines in most cases simply did not need a 200 seat aircraft with US transcontinental range. Its also important to note that the 757, one of the most amazing and versatile airplanes ever produced, sold quite slowly at the outset (BA and EA's launch orders were the only serious orders on Boeing's books for the type for many many years) and when the 757 did gain popularity, it was primarily a ""US thing"" with the majority of 757s being sold to US carriers.
As noted, BA was a large 757 operator and it continues to operate some newer build examples, IB has had a love/hate relationship with the 757.....it loves the versatility and economics of the type but it simply does not fit into IB's Airbus-focused fleet plans, etc. Many EU and UK charter carriers utilize the 757 due to its economics and versaility: its one of the few airplanes that a charter carrier can fly from Europe to the US or the Caribbean on one day of the week and then economically and effectively use on a flight to Mallora or the Canaries on another day of the week.
As mentoned above, several European airlines tried using larger A300s and A310s on intra-European routes....it did not work out very well for most of the airlines as the airlines realized that most high-demand segments need capacity AND frequency. Airlines like KLM, SAS, AF and Swissair quickly replaced most of their widebody intra-European services with smaller aircraft as soon as practical.
Often, there are posts that ask why neither Boeing or Airbus as building a direct successor to the A300/A310/762A/757.....here is the answer: on route up to 3000 miles, most airlines now prefer to offer more frequent service with smaller airplanes; thus, the more capable variants of the 737NG and A32X now fly many routes once flown by the 757 and other types mentioned. When the next generation narrow body airplanes are developed by B and A, we will likely see variants that can more directly replace the 757.
OceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14848 times:
Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 14): So...if they don't needed the 757, why the A300/310 flying for Lufthansa, Alitalia, Air France, Iberia, Swissair, KLM, Austrian, Olympic..?
Austrian got four A310-300 that were essentially used for long-haul flights as they were the airline's first widebody aircraft. They were used then on flight to JFK, NRT, CPH-ORD and perhaps JNB, but I'm not sure about that.
Quoting YULYMX (Reply 15): Don't know? to fly to Morocco, Aleria, Spain?? more Cargo? to help Airbus in those days???
If you search in the data base, you'll find many pictures of major European airlines flying into LHR with A300s, A310s, DC-10s, B767s... Before EuroStar, the London-Paris line was the busiest in the world.
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 16): Air Finland
Many of these are charter airlines, while LY777 asked for national airlines. The Zoom B757 is a member of the Canadian airline fleet.
LY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2819 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14837 times:
Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 11): Do you mean when the aircraft was introduced back then in the '80s and that no other major European ordered it then, or in general ? Do you include cargo fleets in your question ?
I speak in general, and I don't include cargo fleet.
by the way, the 787 is having the same fate as the 757 concerning National European airlines. Only LOT has ordered the 787 so far!!!
SkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14746 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 3): Finnair is another 757 operator that has to be mentioned.
Didn't/doesn't (not sure if they still have them) AY use their's mainly for charters? Seems lots of charter carriers in Europe like them, I do agree, most scheduled carriers opted for smaller a/c probably due to shorter stages.