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TAM Moving Faster Abroad, More 77W/A332 On Sight  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6258 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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We use to discuss here about how slowly TAM has been in terms of international focus.

But during the last 6 months they decided to move quickly ! Last week during a presentation for their shareholders, due to a strong reduction on domestic operations yield (and the preview of more reductions ahead because of additional capacity added by competitors like Gol and new players like Ocean Air, WebJet and BRA) and the growth on international operations yield, TAM for the first time said that they will focus more on international flights.

They will obtain 5 widebodies (considering they keep 12 nowadays, a 43% increase on it's fleet) and also increase their frequencies on South American markets. The 5 planes will be 3 A330-200 and 2 A340-500, one of the A332 in fact is an early delivery from 2008 previous schedule.

This slide show to us their future plans for 2007-2011 period.



Looking for the B777, seems that they are negotiating with Boeing in order to get 2 more firm orders (IIRC they keep 4 option for the Boeing 777-300ER) by 2011, as well as 2 more Airbus (model not disclosure but probably A330-200) by 2009 (they keep a 6 A332 firm order, 2 for 2007, 2 for 2008, 2 for 2009 changed by 3 for 2007, 1 for 2008 and now seems to be 4 for 2009).

For the size of Brazilian market, 26 frames by 2011 is not a huge fleet but it's a strong development over 2005 numbers, where they run only 6 widebodies.

Also, TAM is looking for more partnerships and just announce full agreements with TP and LA. And surprising me and probably lots of people, it's just one day from announcing an agreement with United Airlines (UA) !
Today, in a ceremony in Rio, they begin the official airline of Brazilian National Soccer Team as well as the official airline for Brazilian Soccer Championship. Due to this, TAM charter flights will be arranged during this year in order to provide transport for the national squadron to the Americas Cup. So it's expected TAM planes visiting LIM, BOG and CCS (in this case even before the regular flights).

New Routes:
South America: MVD and CCS
US: GIG-MIA, GIG-Northeast-MIA (daylight), GRU-LAX
Europe: FRA (subject to obtain the required authorization from Brazilian ANAC), same for more services to LHR and CDG.

Does any one has any further info on the additional order for Boeing and Airbus ?

Note: I'd like to say a public thanks for Panam_DC10 for his kindly help on some info provided.

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

Hey Felipe

Great news. When should we expect GRU-LAX? And what type of aircraft?

What about GIG-MIA?

Thanks,
Tony


User currently offlineVbeltraJJ From Brazil, joined Apr 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6139 times:

This flights to the USA may use the new A330 but, if FRA does not work well with ANAC, they should use them to LAX.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6091 times:

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 1):

Great news. When should we expect GRU-LAX? And what type of aircraft?

From what I have heard it is not priority right now, and there is no timeline. I think it would be a waste, but that's just me.

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 1):
What about GIG-MIA?

December, along with MIA-FOR/REC/BEL daylight services (pending aircraft availability). At first, you will probably see MIA-GIG-MIA using one aircraft, so a redeye in one direction and daylight in the other. When more aircraft are available, you will see MIA-GIG as a redeye in both directions, with a daylight MIA-(XXX)-GIG service, with XXX rotating between FOR, REC, and BEL (or possibly others like NAT or BSB) depending on the day of the week.



a.
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6060 times:

Can you guys explain me the MIA-FOR/REC/BEL?

Are they going to rotate, one day MIA-FOR, the next MIA-REC and MIA-BEL? Or this is a MIA-FOR-REC-BEL route?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 4):
Can you guys explain me the MIA-FOR/REC/BEL?

Are they going to rotate, one day MIA-FOR, the next MIA-REC and MIA-BEL? Or this is a MIA-FOR-REC-BEL route?

Rotate. For example, MoWeFr might be MIA-FOR-GIG, TuTh MIA-BEL-GIG, and SaSu MIA-REC-GIG. This would also possibly mean that the daily MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR flight will re-route MIA-MAO-BSB. It's still to early to tell what exactly it will operate like, though.



a.
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

So all these flights will end up in GIG? Nice. I'm brazilian and I would love to visit the northeast of Brazil. Would this be operated using 332 or a 320 like MIA-MAO?

Anyone who works for TAM, does TAM plan to have features on their website such as choose seats and check flight schedules?

Thanks,
Tony


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
They will obtain 5 widebodies (considering they keep 12 nowadays, a 43% increase on it's fleet) and also increase their frequencies on South American markets. The 5 planes will be 3 A330-200 and 2 A340-500, one of the A332 in fact is an early delivery from 2008 previous schedule.

Correcting your info, JJ currently has 13 widebodie aircrats, 10 A332 & 3 MD-11.


TAM & UA???

I would never imagine such thing. Well, if they really plan to LAX to work UA code-share will definately help.


User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1367 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5852 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
And surprising me and probably lots of people, it's just one day from announcing an agreement with United Airlines (UA) !

Hello Felipe! Yes, that is really surprising! Might they replace Varig in the Star Alliance, or will it be some other type of marketing agreement? Does JJ still have a code-share agreement with AA?

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 1):
Great news. When should we expect GRU-LAX? And what type of aircraft?

More great news! I too am wondering when GRU-LAX will start.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
I think it would be a waste, but that's just me.

You've been saying that for years but RG had no problems filling an MD-11 to LAX, even after they stopped service to NRT. I would know as I flew that flight often. Fact remains there is currently NO nonstop service from the US West Coast to Brazil but whoever fills this void first will have a money maker. Fares right now from LAX/SFO to GIG/GRU are way over $1000.00. If JJ enters this market, they could charge even higher prices and still fill their plane if it meant not having to connect in DFW/ATL/MIA or NYC.

Thanks again for the update Felipe.
Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Quoting HALFA (Reply 8):

You've been saying that for years but RG had no problems filling an MD-11 to LAX, even after they stopped service to NRT. I would know as I flew that flight often.

Huge difference between filling a plane and making money. They filled the plane, but after the Japan tag-ons ended, LAX became a money loser for Varig. The market is not huge and low-yielding. I'd like to see TAM at Los Angeles, and I think they could fill an A330. I don't think it would be profitable.



a.
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5668 times:

How many miles from GRU to LAX?

User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

Out of curiosity, how is this confirmed? Is the likelihood of a UA/Tam partnership that likely and if so, could you give any details.

User currently offlineJog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 11):
Out of curiosity, how is this confirmed? Is the likelihood of a UA/Tam partnership that likely and if so, could you give any details.

Just wait 24 hours for the confirmation. There will be an announcement (press conference?) by Marco Antonio Bologna (president of TAM) and Michael Whitaker (United Airlines) in Sao Paulo tomorrow (link).


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

thanks- that's awesome!

User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4878 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5476 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

A345 from where?? ACs planes??

User currently offlineMarioSPlane From Brazil, joined Mar 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5474 times:

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 10):
How many miles from GRU to LAX?

6.150 miles


Cheers


User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

So, it looks like 2 further 77Ws are due in 2011 and the originally ordered 4 will all be in service by end of 2008.
I would have liked to see fleet projection beyond 2011, to see when TAM will be expecting their 1st A350s. I fully expect TAM to convert to the XWB, but maybe the 787 has some chance here?


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5803 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 16):
So, it looks like 2 further 77Ws are due in 2011 and the originally ordered 4 will all be in service by end of 2008.
I would have liked to see fleet projection beyond 2011, to see when TAM will be expecting their 1st A350s. I fully expect TAM to convert to the XWB, but maybe the 787 has some chance here?

I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing is trying to persuade TAM to buy the 787s. TAM hasn't reaffirmed their A350 comitment and it has been almost 6 months since relaunch.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5267 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 16):
I fully expect TAM to convert to the XWB



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):
TAM hasn't reaffirmed their A350

There has been total silence on this front. Trying to peak into the future from Felipe's graph provides no hints. The 777 order surprised all and throws some questions into the mix. I don't reacall, how many A350s do they have on order and does anyone recall when the deliveries were supposed to be made?

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 6):
I would love to visit the northeast

I have a homestead in Natal, you are always welcome to visit, we can take a flight on "Aero Bunda". You can have a 30 day pass on my "bus".  Smile

Quoting HALFA (Reply 8):
Does JJ still have a code-share agreement with AA?

Yes, out of Miami the code share works really well. I have been on a TAM flight that was a AA 772. Weird, I couldn't book the AA flight on line, but then the same aircraft labeled TAM on the ticket was less. (The least expensive I ever flew on TAM MIA-NAT was $USD 409, unrestricted, cattle class, r/t. But that was a few weeks after 9/11.) The prices between MIA and the Northeast are outrageous, I'm usually quoted about 2 grand, MIA-GRU-NAT (what a hassle).

TAM partnerships are starting to make me feel that TAM is the garota de programa of airlines



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 18):
TAM partnerships are starting to make me feel that TAM is the garota de programa of airlines

LOL! That's even better than what I said in another thread.


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
same for more services to LHR and CDG.

Can someone confirm 2 daily flights GRU-CDG, one GIG-CDG and one REC-CDG. Or is the REC a stop between GRU - CDG?

Would it make more sense to have more destinations in Europe than increasing CDG or can´t they get more permission from ANAC for more EU fligths  Smile?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5087 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 20):
Can someone confirm 2 daily flights GRU-CDG, one GIG-CDG and one REC-CDG. Or is the REC a stop between GRU - CDG?

Could be a REC-CDG, but the rumors are about a daylight CDG-GIG/GRU with stops in the Northeast (as well as a daylight GIG/GRU-CDG with stops in Northeast).

Guys, a big rumor is that, the partnership TAM vs United will become real because of... AA partnership with Tam is about to end... in six months. Now trying to confirm this......

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
Guys, a big rumor is that, the partnership TAM vs United will become real because of... AA partnership with Tam is about to end... in six months. Now trying to confirm this......

What?  Smile Nice going AA. How do I get to Belo now?

AA should partner with GOL then or start flying to CNF once again!


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
AA partnership with Tam is about to end... in six months. Now trying to confirm this......

How about other codeshares like AF or KL? Will those stay as they apperantly are having new agreements with Star Alliance members?  Smile

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
Could be a REC-CDG, but the rumors are about a daylight CDG-GIG/GRU with stops in the Northeast (as well as a daylight GIG/GRU-CDG with stops in Northeast).

How many CDG they have by now? Do they have 3 or 4 fligths a day?  Smile


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

Lipe, thanks for TAM's future fleet plans.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
also increase their frequencies on South American markets



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
ue to a strong reduction on domestic operations yield (and the preview of more reductions ahead because of additional capacity added by competitors like Gol and new players like Ocean Air, WebJet and BRA) and the growth on international operations yield,

Correct. TAM now reached a point where it would be difficult to operate further growth in the Brazilian market. Besides being the number one player and recent substantive capacity increase through the gradual replacement of F100 with A319/A320. As mentioned, yields in the domestic market are going down because of strong competition i.e. GOL and now BRA+OceanAir.

However, TAM's lowering yileds in the domestic market are because of TAM's own strategic mistakes:

a) the removal of business class in domestic routes. By its expansion drive TAM decided to operate Y only cabins in domestic flight, although there is C market in some selected routes such as BSB-GIG or GRU-MAO. In addition, TAM simplified its onboard service with one-choice sandwich. Both decisions made TAM offer a domestic service not very different than its competitor GOL, driving yileds lower. Both the (excessive) simplification of on-board service and the removal of C class in my view were mistakes and it is high time for TAM to "correct" its domestic product.

b) excessive concentration of flights on CGH. With all the problems and bottleneck of Brasil's civil aviation market, CGH became a "prolematic" airport, with frequent delays, which directly affected TAM operations and performance. If CGH closes down for 15min because of rain, the whole of TAM network is affected.

TAM strategy to route more than 50% of its flights via CGH is a gross mistake and is proving unsustainable. TAM should reasses its domestic network relying less in CGH and quicly boosting other connecting hubs such as BSB and GIG. CGH should not be a connecting airport. TAM route network needs a drastic change and other hubs should become more developed. There is no reason why a pax flying POA-REC has to connect in CGH! Connections in CGH are expensive and very incoveninent and TAM needs to quickly internalise this new facet of the market.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Also, TAM is looking for more partnerships and just announce full agreements with TP and LA. And surprising me and probably lots of people, it's just one day from announcing an agreement with United Airlines (UA)

I am also surprised with TAM ever-increasing bilateral alliances: LA in South America, TP (and perhaps LH) in Europe and UA in the US. This also supports the view that TAM will branch out to international markets more agressively. There is no doubt TAM needs to have more international partners and boost its mileage programme with more associate members. All in all, TAM now has partners in all corners: Sky, *A and OW...

Rgs,


25 United787 : What will happen to their deal with RG?
26 Hardiwv : RG is out of *A and now belongs to GOL. Rgs,
27 Post contains links United787 : I realize RG is no longer in Star Alliance although being part of GOL has nothing to do with that, GOL is not an alliance. They are still a partner w
28 Thorben : Wait for the Paris air show. However, they are keeping that option open - I can't see any other reason for the 77W purchase. A345 will look great in
29 LipeGIG : At this time, stays untouched. I can say that SA is looking for a partnership with Tam also, and an agreement with LH is on TAM focus, but depending
30 VbeltraJJ : Hey fellas...sorry again in portuguese, but now, it´s official: TAM and UA. Release #:1214-40936-em-208137: TAM e United Airlines assinam memorando d
31 LipeGIG : So it become real (UA x JJ)... now the next step to be confirmed... AA x JJ partnership is really about to end ? And may be in the next weeks we see s
32 Post contains links Jog : The english version of the press release can be found at http://www.b2i.us/Profiles/Investor/...=38327&myID=3252&L=e&Validate=3&I= It's currently a m
33 VbeltraJJ : The fleet update from our annual convention is different : 114 aircraft till the end of the year. So....it might be the 2 added A330. And within the n
34 LipeGIG : Well... more news... partnership with LH seems to be CLOSED ! TO be announced Monday ! Felipe
35 Rafabozzolla : IMHO this seems odd. TAM is exchanging a partnership with a strong player in its US markets (MIA and JFK) for an airline that has limited service at b
36 Daron4000 : First of all, TAM doesnt have to end their agreement with AA by starting one with UA. Second, maybe TAM wants a higher yield on their own metal instea
37 C010T3 : Yes, they do. The Brazil-USA bilateral doesn't allow code-sharing with more than one airline.[Edited 2007-05-19 05:21:27]
38 MAH4546 : This will allow them to concentrate on O&D traffic from Miami and New York City to Brazil, which is huge. NYC/MIA probably represent half, if not mor
39 Jobalas : [quote=LipeGIG,reply=34]Well... more news... partnership with LH seems to be CLOSED ! TO be announced Monday ! and what about the strong partnership b
40 Dellatorre : To be honest, I would rather see TAM partning up with DL than UA. DL would provide much better feed at JFK and even MIA, where they keep many flights
41 XA744 : This is most interesting. Has TAM been considering MEX again ? I mean, if JJ ever joins Skyteam, and enters a broad codeshare agreement with Aeromexi
42 Dellatorre : Another thing that I just realized. Can anyone imagine what it would be like having RG+AA as partners? Who would ever thought that?
43 LipeGIG : It's not that strong Jobalas, you can't obtain FF miles as an Air France Frequent Flyer while flying Tam South America-Europe-South America routes as
44 MAH4546 : They don't care about feed at Miami and JFK. TAM doesn't need feed at those cities. In fact, filling those flights up with connecting passengers, suc
45 Dellatorre : GOL is far from being GRU oriented.
46 Rafabozzolla : After reading a few more news stories about the recent alliances this is what i think: Tam is maximizing its revenue potential. The code sharing with
47 LipeGIG : It's their 3rd main airport nowadays, with non stop flights to POA, FLN, CWB, GIG, CNF, BSB, SSA, FOR, NAT, REC, MAO, BPS, among others. It's only be
48 Dellatorre : TAM will not fly on its own metal to LIS. They can use the aircraft on a better (high yielding) destination in Europe or USA.
49 Hardiwv : My feeling is that this clearly means that TAM is getting very close to a full integration into *Alliance. The partnership with LH, which many expect
50 LipeGIG : Exactly, but will access for example markets like MAD. Agree that ANA will try it, and they keep saying in the near future should use own metal to Br
51 JJMNGR : Hardi, for GOL become an alliance member it will be primordial for them to become an IAT carrier which they are not. And to get this worse, since thi
52 VbeltraJJ : Concerning this subject about being an IATA member, I think they must be looking for it because as they fly to Chile, they have to be an IATA member a
53 Post contains links LipeGIG : They take part on Chile compensation system, but remain not an IATA full member: http://www.iata.org/nr/rdonlyres/1bb...c09f97/55081/líneasaéreasca
54 VbeltraJJ : Well then, once again thanks for the information Felipe. Anyway, I should expect that GOL announces shortly some kind of involvement concerning IATA b
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