United Airlines, announced today it has reduced 2007 mainline domestic capacity growth by approximately 2.0 percent from previously planned levels. This reduction in domestic capacity enables the company to meet increasing international demand and optimize its revenue performance.
The 0.5% increase in international side is mainly the relaunch of LAX - Hong Kong and Washington - Rio.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3832 times:
it will be interesting to see where US pulls domestic capacity down but the west coast is clearly under pressure for UA with the arrival of Virgin America and WN at SFO and DEN.... DL's LAX buildup will have some affect on UA but it's probably relatively small at this point. The East coast is still under pressure but no one is adding a whole lot of Washington capacity at the moment.
I'd still like to know what kind of utilization UA has been getting out of its 744 and 763s since they are apparently able to add these new routes w/ its existing a/c. Nothing has been said about removing domestic a/c at UA but I heard rumors that might happen... any knowledge of that?
Bicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3761 times:
Has UA reached an agreement with its pilots to fly more this summer? If not, UA will have to reduce its schedule because it won't have the pilots to fly the planes this summer. Better to cancel now, than to piss off the passengers with last minute cancellations due to lack of crew.
Zone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3755 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1): I'd still like to know what kind of utilization UA has been getting out of its 744 and 763s since they are apparently able to add these new routes w/ its existing a/c.
I can't imagine they have spectacular utilization on their 744s. I've been in ORD when I see 4 of them in a row pull by from their holding area near the hangars in the afternoon. That's a lot metal just hanging around.
"United last month warned that it might lower domestic capacity because of weak U.S. revenues, pointing to Denver as a key area where its revenues have suffered.
Low-cost carriers Southwest Airlines and Frontier Airlines have stepped up their competition in Denver. United's chief revenue officer John Tague said last month: "Clearly, we're under pressure in Denver, and we expect that to continue."
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22050 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3738 times:
During the 1st quarter earning call, UA advised they had several 737s leases expiring going into the 4th quarter and it had flexibility including retaining the capacity, removing it totally, or possibly back filling it with UAX.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2402 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3685 times:
Quoting Zone1 (Reply 3): I can't imagine they have spectacular utilization on their 744s. I've been in ORD when I see 4 of them in a row pull by from their holding area near the hangars in the afternoon. That's a lot metal just hanging around.
Hmmm, do you hang around long enough to see them depart to HKG, PVG, FRA, and PEK?! They get better use out of them than you think.
RDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1314 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3589 times:
This is a smart move by UA. I think we'll see others follow. I've been hearing since Feb that Revenues are bad and the outlook isn't any better domestically. Pricing power is non-existent, and fuel is going up. Cutting capacity will raise CASM about 1% but will lower overall costs and allow a more efficient operation. Plus they plan to grow Int'l capacity slightly too.
Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2): Has UA reached an agreement with its pilots to fly more this summer? If not, UA will have to reduce its schedule because it won't have the pilots to fly the planes this summer. Better to cancel now, than to piss off the passengers with last minute cancellations due to lack of crew.
Ding, Ding, Ding, kill two birds with one stone...chalk one up for Mgmt.
Quoting Zone1 (Reply 3): I can't imagine they have spectacular utilization on their 744s. I've been in ORD when I see 4 of them in a row pull by from their holding area near the hangars in the afternoon. That's a lot metal just hanging around.
That would be because they do 744 maintenance there...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3561 times:
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 7): This is a smart move by UA. I think we'll see others follow. I've been hearing since Feb that Revenues are bad and the outlook isn't any better domestically.
actually CO and DL are not seeing yield softness as other carriers are.... in fact, DL is supposedly talking w/ China about acquiring up to 20 MD90s in return for a bunch of CRJs. CO, as we know, is adding domestic capacity.
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3545 times:
Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter): United Airlines, announced today it has reduced 2007 mainline domestic capacity growth by approximately 2.0 percent from previously planned levels
The way I read this; the only thing UA did was reduced what was planned for growth and not what was actually flying at the moment.
RDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1314 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3525 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8): actually CO and DL are not seeing yield softness as other carriers are.... in fact, DL is supposedly talking w/ China about acquiring up to 20 MD90s in return for a bunch of CRJs. CO, as we know, is adding domestic capacity.
Wait and see my friend. Everyone is seeing weakened Domestic demand. NWA wants to codeshare with YX (an airline they have fiercely competed with over the years). Even the LCC's are making other plans. WN is joining the GDS in hopes of higher revenues... FL is attempting a takeover of YX. B6 is slowing deliveries and considering selling more 320's. F9 is looking to Central America to increase Int'l traffic. These aren't all coincidences.
UA's announcement is just the tip of the iceburg for the legacy carriers.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3385 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3420 times:
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 10):
Wait and see my friend. Everyone is seeing weakened Domestic demand. NWA wants to codeshare with YX (an airline they have fiercely competed with over the years). Even the LCC's are making other plans. WN is joining the GDS in hopes of higher revenues... FL is attempting a takeover of YX. B6 is slowing deliveries and considering selling more 320's. F9 is looking to Central America to increase Int'l traffic. These aren't all coincidences.
UA's announcement is just the tip of the iceburg for the legacy carriers.
DL, however, cut capacity drastically in the domestic market during bankruptcy, in fact, a little bit too much. DL has been trying to fill the void by adding RJs (which they have a plethora of) everywhere, but this hasn't been the best move. DL's domestic market is profitable, and DL is dying to add some mainline capacity in exchange for RJ current capacity.
ATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3357 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8): actually CO and DL are not seeing yield softness as other carriers are.... in fact, DL is supposedly talking w/ China about acquiring up to 20 MD90s in return for a bunch of CRJs.
None of us know the exact truth but DL did recently announce (I can search for a link if you want me to) that they are seeing strong advance bookings, while others have stated they are seeing weakness. Could just be "luck" with the primary markets served, or perhaps DL is actually gaining a competitive edge.
Fdex727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3279 times:
I hate to say it, but I see United turning more stations domestically over to express. Bring express flying in at slow times, while bringing in mainline during busy periods, see RDU with their new mainline IAD, ORD and DEN flights. GSO comes to mind having worked there with UA. Stations with one to two mainline flights a day I would say are at risk. It just does not make sense having employees topped out at 19-20 dollars an hour when UA can bring in contract employees for much less. I never thought I would say these thing but with ever increasing competition an UA's desire to cut labor costs where else can it come from.
Let me just add that I hope i'm wrong about these thing as I still have many friends at GSO, BOS, PVD and CLT.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3268 times:
Quoting Fdex727 (Reply 13): I hope i'm wrong about these thing as I still have many friends at GSO, BOS, PVD and CLT.
At CLT, wouldn't it make sense for UA to contract their ramp ops to Star Alliance partner US? I don't think UA have enough flights to CLT to match US in efficiency there.
UAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3206 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1): I'd still like to know what kind of utilization UA has been getting out of its 744 and 763s since they are apparently able to add these new routes w/ its existing a/c. Nothing has been said about removing domestic a/c at UA but I heard rumors that might happen... any knowledge of that?
I cannot comment on the 767's but ORD is losing the extra 747 to HKG which goes 2/3 times a week to accomadate the LAX-HKG flight.
Quoting Zone1 (Reply 3): I can't imagine they have spectacular utilization on their 744s. I've been in ORD when I see 4 of them in a row pull by from their holding area near the hangars in the afternoon. That's a lot metal just hanging around.
They are pretty much utilized to the max, they need to be on the ground at some stage!!!
Quoting 777fan (Reply 6): Hmmm, do you hang around long enough to see them depart to HKG, PVG, FRA, and PEK?! They get better use out of them than you think.
Hiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2118 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3100 times:
"United Airlines, announced today it has reduced 2007 mainline domestic capacity growth by approximately 2.0 percent from previously planned levels."
They are reducing 2007 GROWTH by 2%....not overall flying! There is still growth....98% if my math is right...grin!! Heck...y'all got stations closing...737's grounding...747 utilization.....DIA failing....all types of stuff out of an announcement they are reducing GROWTH by 2 percent.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3000 times:
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 10): UA's announcement is just the tip of the iceburg for the legacy carriers.
you assume that all airlines are run the same... I say they are not.
You might also want to consider that UA and US are the network carriers in whose hubs LFCs are most growing… it’s not surprising that UA’s yields are under pressure when WN, Virgin America, F9 etc are growing in their markets. But you don’t see LFCs growing in AA, CO, DL, and NW hubs…. Perhaps those LFCs see opportunities… and perhaps those other LFCs have a reputation for not defending their markets. Once you let LFCs into your hub and they start growing, it’s mighty hard to keep them in a box.
Mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1278 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2940 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17): But you don’t see LFCs growing in AA, CO, DL, and NW hubs…
Your right. AA never had to fight LCC growth at SJC. CAL never had to worry about SWA over at HOU. And how about DL and JFK with B6. Dumping all those DH8's in there to counteract B6, what did that cost? Did B6 smell blood in the water at DL? Perhaps they grew too agressively but DL is not immune. How about DL and SLC with the B6 buildup. DL closing DFW and reducing CVG. Those hubs fell and are falling.
Fdex727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2607 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14): At CLT, wouldn't it make sense for UA to contract their ramp ops to Star Alliance partner US? I don't think UA have enough flights to CLT to match US in efficiency there.
There are 5-6 ORD flights, 2 DEN and 5 to IAD. Being a decent sized line station It would be difficult to contract just the ramp. When I worked there in 2003-2004 we had around 40-50 CSR's, most crosstrained in ramp and ticket operations. If only the ramp were contracted out you would probably furlough 75% or more, the rest would staff the counter and baggage service office. Not saying it couldn't happen it's just highly improbable under current circumstances.
I also forgot about AC, I know UA has given up the contract in several cities but during my time we also worked 3 daily YYZ flights.
COEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2561 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17): But you don’t see LFCs growing in AA, CO, DL, and NW hubs…. Perhaps those LFCs see opportunities… and perhaps those other LFCs have a reputation for not defending their markets. Once you let LFCs into your hub and they start growing, it’s mighty hard to keep them in a box.
AA has competition from WN at Chicago and LAX. CO has competition from B6 at EWR/JFK, HOU, DL has competition from FL at ATL, B6 at JFK, B6 at BOS...... UA isnt the only airline facing competition. I know with CO, when B6 entered EWR, they matched fares and used 757-300's to give them an advantage, and try to drive B6 out. I'm not sure that CO could do the same with WN.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2231 times:
As SESGDL points out, the prime reason DL isn't seeing domestic weakness is because DL is slashing domestic capacity. In April 2007, DL's domestic ASM's dropped by 7.3% even with some growth at the Connection carriers. Keep in mind too, this is on top of 13.5% ASM cuts in the previous April.
As long as DL continues slashing domestic capacity, it's not likely they will feel a lot of domestic weakness. Of course, perpetually shrinking domestic could have other negative consequences.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2195 times:
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 18): Hmm, me thinks DL might disagree. Airtran are a big player at ATL
FL has not grown significantly in ATL. They are out of gates and DL is using that to its advantage. Why do you think FL is so anxious to buy YX but to find a way to deploy all of those new 737s on order.
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 19): Your right. AA never had to fight LCC growth at SJC. CAL never had to worry about SWA over at HOU.
Let we acquaint you w/ the tense of verbs in the English language. AA FOUGHT and LOST LFCs in SJC.... AA HAS not had any significant LFC growth at DFW or MIA despite predictions that would happen.
WN doesn't fly from IAH any longer IIRC. .. so CO obviously did something right. B6 hasn't grown in EWR and in fact has pulled back service.
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 19): How about DL and SLC with the B6 buildup.
WN at SLC is about the same size as it was 10 years ago. .... there has been no buildup.
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 19): And how about DL and JFK with B6
You might want to look at the stats but DL is growing much faster than B6 at JFK....and DL isn't leaving thousands of passengers stranded on flights either.
Face it... UA and US have allowed one LFC after another to get a toe hold in their markets... and they just keep growing.. BTW.... Virgin America was approved to fly today... guess where they will be based? UA's #1 west coast market.
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2174 times:
This is all about mainline. No destinations will be dropped and possibly more will actually be added but smaller cities will lose mainline service and go to UAX.
25 Mcdu: LET WE? did you mean "let me"???????????? Nice one. You need to reread that sentence then try again. If the facts are not disputable then you claim y
26 FlyPNS1: Statements like this is why your posts are discounted as nothing more than Delta cheerleading. Over the past 3 years Airtran's traffic in ATL has inc
27 WorldTraveler: so obviously DL has redeployed its assets....and added a great deal more capacity to international markets. And you also fail to respond to the quest
28 Cch362: What UA is doing is not so different than what Delta is doing. Delta's 1Q report stated a cut of 5 to 7% in domestic mainline capacity for the rest o
29 FlyPNS1: It's very easy to defend UA's domestic capacity cut. Domestic traffic is beginning to weaken, UA is reacting to that by reducing domestic capacity. I
30 WorldTraveler: actually it is.. UA is simply pulling domestic capacity and shuffling their int'l network... they aren't really adding much new and are sending their
31 FlyPNS1: But the only reason DL is redeploying capacity, is because they were sub-optimally utilizing widebody aircraft on domestic routes. The other legacies
32 FreequentFlier: Its kind of silly to suggest that UA is "allowing" LCCs to grow in their hubs. UA doesn't grant permission. LCCs are free to fly wherever they want (
33 WorldTraveler: every carrier has its reason it ended up in C11 or very close. And despite dumping alot of mainline aircraft, system capacity has not dipped below 5%
34 FreequentFlier: That was sort of my point. Its not like UA sits back and takes it. UA competes just as any carrier does would. However, when an airline like WN is ov
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22719 posts, 
From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1314 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
None of us know the exact truth but DL did recently announce (I can search for a link if you want me to) that they are seeing strong advance bookings, while others have stated they are seeing weakness. Could just be "luck" with the primary markets served, or perhaps DL is actually gaining a competitive edge.
From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, 
From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
