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Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific  
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12322 times:

Delta Gets Certificate To Fly To South Pacific
By Fili Sagapolutele in Pago Pago
Sunday: May 06, 2007


SUBSCRIBE TO Pacific Magazine
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The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) has granted U.S. based Delta Air Lines Inc., authority to hold a "blanket open-skies certificate" to operate flights between the United States and four countries in the South Pacific including Samoa and Tonga.

This approval was made possible because Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, New Zealand and the United States are signatory countries to the Multilateral Agreement on the Liberalization of International Air Transportation (MALIAT) open skies agreement, according to DOT records reviewed by Pacific Magazine.

-Other countries who are part of MALIAT agreement and now Delta is allowed to operate to and from are Brunei, Chile and Singapore, said DOT.

more here

http://www.pacificmagazine.net/news/...rtificate-to-fly-to-south-pacific-

115 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12301 times:

Excellent news for DL. Might be sometime before we see any of these become DL destinations. I look forward to the day DL goes to Australia!!!


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlinePlaneGuy27 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12250 times:

Pago Pago needs to wake up and smell the coffee! This means absolutely nothing. US has Open Skies with Uganda, Chad and over 70 countries. That doesn't mean they are serving there anytime soon. The Open Skies certificate application just streamlines their efforts for places like the European Union, India, Canada, etc.

Also, Iisn't Pago Pago is a federally subsidized service for Hawaiian Airlines right now so the market can't be that untapped?


User currently offlineVenezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1429 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12229 times:

Would they do this out of LAX? Is SLC-SYD even possible?


ROLL TIDE!!!
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12229 times:

The day Delta starts serving Samoa, Cook Islands, and Tonga will be the day hell freezes over.

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4760 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12210 times:

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 3):
Would they do this out of LAX? Is SLC-SYD even possible?

any south-pacific routes will be out of LAX or ATL if aircraft range warrants.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12131 times:

These routes warrant 737-800 service from HNL, not 767 service from LAX.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12089 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
These routes warrant 737-800 service from HNL, not 767 service from LAX.

Except for this one with a 777-200LR.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
New Zealand


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12075 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 7):
Except for this one with a 777-200LR.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
New Zealand

That route warrants a 787-9, the 777 for any other airline except Air New Zealand is too much capacity on the LAX-Auckland route.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

I don't see Australia mentioned in these rights. IMO, without SYD, it's unlikely DL would begin service to the South Pacific, even AKL. (although I'd dearly love to see it). As for Samoa and Tonga - HIGHLY unlikely to happen. What little service there is now to those islands seems nicely covered by NZ (not sure if HA still flies any SoPac services?). In the past, the only reason for U.S. carriers to serve those destinations was aircraft range limitations. My guess if DL gets the rights, we would see LAX-SYD/AKL nonstops, and thats about it.

User currently offlineRB211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12021 times:

All I can say is SINGAPORE!  goodvibes 


Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11900 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
That route warrants a 787-9, the 777 for any other airline except Air New Zealand is too much capacity on the LAX-Auckland route.

The 789 can only carry 80k that far. That's about 190 pax and 40k of cargo, or a full load and 25k of cargo. Pretty thin.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11885 times:

Interesting........now, the key question is: what does Delta have in mind? While Samoa, Tonga and the Cook islands all sound interesting and sexy, Delta clearly has other plans in connection with obtaining this authority.

New Zealand is part of this grouping........while an ATL-SYD nonstop would be a strech even for a 772LR, how about ATL-AKL-SYD? There have been all kinds of chat suggesting that DL is looking at serving SYD, and although DL may attempt to develop LAX into some type of Pacific gateway in the future, wouldnt DL running a flight to the South Pacific from its mega hub in ATL make much more sense? DL rules at ATL, there is no competiton out of ATL (or any other hub) in the eastern US, and DL has proved that it can make a success out of flights from ATL to far off places (think DKR/JNB, for example).

And, as pointed out above, SIN also seems to be part of the package: if DL does proceed with constructing an Asian route system, SIN would be a key destination.

Lots to think about........


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11864 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
Interesting........now, the key question is: what does Delta have in mind?

Maybe buy up Hawaiian? Would be an interesting twist... If fuel wasn't so damn expensive out there, HNL is a great pacific rim jump point for the 787.

[Edited 2007-05-18 18:04:59]

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11845 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
ATL-SYD nonstop would be a strech even for a 772LR

Would it be a stretch for an LR? I don't know about that.

Somehow I see potential 777-200LR routes written all over this South Pacific cert.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offline777D From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 300 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11778 times:

I might use my miles with Delta.........AKL would be nice..........why not SEA and/or PDX again? Untapped market in PNW..........With Northwest, Air France (starting in June) and Alaska feeding these flights to AKL would work?

User currently offlinePlaneGuy27 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11693 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 1):
Excellent news for DL. Might be sometime before we see any of these become DL destinations. I look forward to the day DL goes to Australia!!!



Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 9):
don't see Australia mentioned in these rights. IMO, without SYD, it's unlikely DL would begin service to the South Pacific, even AKL. (although I'd dearly love to see it).

Australia is NOT an open skies partner with the U.S. for passenger services (cargo only) so this certification has nothing to do with possible Sydney routes at all. I believe over 50 airlines have already applied for these broad certificates including Frontier which means we can all start speculating on F9s new services between Denver, Tonga, Uganda and Cabo Verde.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26016 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11596 times:

This DOT award, has NOTHING to do with any desire or potential of DL serving these markets.

This blanket authority was issued by the DOT simply as a formality.

The DOT back on April 3rd invited all US air carriers to apply for blanket authorizations covering authorities to serve all countries which participate in open-skies with the United States.
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf100/464092_web.pdf
This was simply a clerical exercise by the DOT in granting permission for all US airlines to serve all potential open sky members and do avoid the need to apply for individual permits as had been tradition.

Delta's and just about every other major US airlines application was simply based on this, and no other clear desire to serve an particular market.
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=465019&docketid=27790

To read anything more into this is simply fantasy on peoples part. One could make the same outlandish assumptions for every other US airline whom applied for the same exact blanket authority aswell back in April.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline787EWR From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11499 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 9):
I don't see Australia mentioned in these rights. IMO, without SYD, it's unlikely DL would begin service to the South Pacific, even AKL. (although I'd dearly love to see it). As for Samoa and Tonga - HIGHLY unlikely to happen. What little service there is now to those islands seems nicely covered by NZ (not sure if HA still flies any SoPac services?). In the past, the only reason for U.S. carriers to serve those destinations was aircraft range limitations. My guess if DL gets the rights, we would see LAX-SYD/AKL nonstops, and thats about it.

I don't believe that there is an open sky agreement beteween Australia and the United States. SYD-LAX is dominated by QF and UA. Singapore is trying to get authorization to fly it, but Australia keeps blocking it. Virgin Blue will begin 777 service from Brisbane to the US in 2009(?)

What this may do however, is open up the possibility of Delta providing seats to islands in the South Pacific for SkyTeam members. China Airline and Singapore(to my knowledge) do not fly any routes to the South Pacific. Should Singapore secure the rights to fly to Sydney from LAX, I would imagine those flights would be full of Delta customers now that DL has announce LAX as a focus city. Another option might be Delta creating an Alliance with Air New Zealand or even Virgin Blue to provide service to these areas.

Bottom line is, Delta came out of bankruptcy saying they were going to be different, well here it comes.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11428 times:

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 19):
What this may do however, is open up the possibility of Delta providing seats to islands in the South Pacific for SkyTeam members. China Airline and Singapore(to my knowledge) do not fly any routes to the South Pacific

Its highly unlikely that DL will serve any of the South Pacific islands........there is very little traffic and the distances are far. The populations of Tonga, the Cook Islands, etc are very small, and the number of tourists travelling to these destinations is limited; Air New Zealand has this market covered and there is really very little room for competition. (CO, AA, PA, UA and QF all had South Pacific route systems at one time, and there is a reason that they all ceased flying to Islands.) The only real money to be made is on nonstop routes from the US to Australia and maybe New Zealand.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 19):
Another option might be Delta creating an Alliance with Air New Zealand

Air New Zealand is a sold STAR alliance member and works closely with UA.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 19):
Bottom line is, Delta came out of bankruptcy saying they were going to be different, well here it comes.

Different - yes, Crazy - no! Dont look for Delta airplanes at the Cook Islands or Tonga in the near future.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11417 times:
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The only place on the South Pacific Delta will ever fly to is Australia, may be New Zealand. Islands FORGET ABOUT IT. Sydney is the only market those 777LR's are going to any time soon from LAX or Atlanta. I'm looking for LAX to Orient international flights from Delta.

User currently offline787EWR From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11344 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Its highly unlikely that DL will serve any of the South Pacific islands........there is very little traffic and the distances are far. The populations of Tonga, the Cook Islands, etc are very small, and the number of tourists travelling to these destinations is limited; Air New Zealand has this market covered and there is really very little room for competition. (CO, AA, PA, UA and QF all had South Pacific route systems at one time, and there is a reason that they all ceased flying to Islands.) The only real money to be made is on nonstop routes from the US to Australia and maybe New Zealand.

You may well be correct. However, I believe Delta still has service to HNL from ATL. Perhaps a mini-mini hub or a focus city. I don't know the demographics of the islands, but with recent threads on Air Tahiti and their problems, this may be an oppotunity, albeit, unlikely.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Air New Zealand is a sold STAR alliance member and works closely with UA

I was not aware of that, Thanks.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Different - yes, Crazy - no! Dont look for Delta airplanes at the Cook Islands or Tonga in the near future.

This is the airline business. I agree, I can't see a 777 landing daily on Pago Pago, but I never say never. Why would Delta ask for the rights if they are not planning to usecoadeshare the routes?


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11311 times:

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 22):
Why would Delta ask for the rights if they are not planning to usecoadeshare the routes?

Here is your answer:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
This DOT award, has NOTHING to do with any desire or potential of DL serving these markets.

This blanket authority was issued by the DOT simply as a formality.

The DOT back on April 3rd invited all US air carriers to apply for blanket authorizations covering authorities to serve all countries which participate in open-skies with the United States.
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf100/464092_web.pdf
This was simply a clerical exercise by the DOT in granting permission for all US airlines to serve all potential open sky members and do avoid the need to apply for individual permits as had been tradition.

Delta's and just about every other major US airlines application was simply based on this, and no other clear desire to serve an particular market.
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=465019&docketid=27790



To read anything more into this is simply fantasy on peoples part. One could make the same outlandish assumptions for every other US airline whom applied for the same exact blanket authority aswell back in April.

But as I said above.......maybe DL is thinking about an ATL-AKL-SYD route?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
Interesting........now, the key question is: what does Delta have in mind? While Samoa, Tonga and the Cook islands all sound interesting and sexy, Delta clearly has other plans in connection with obtaining this authority.

New Zealand is part of this grouping........while an ATL-SYD nonstop would be a strech even for a 772LR, how about ATL-AKL-SYD? There have been all kinds of chat suggesting that DL is looking at serving SYD, and although DL may attempt to develop LAX into some type of Pacific gateway in the future, wouldnt DL running a flight to the South Pacific from its mega hub in ATL make much more sense? DL rules at ATL, there is no competiton out of ATL (or any other hub) in the eastern US, and DL has proved that it can make a success out of flights from ATL to far off places (think DKR/JNB, for example).

And, as pointed out above, SIN also seems to be part of the package: if DL does proceed with constructing an Asian route system, SIN would be a key destination.

Lots to think about........


User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11267 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
The only place on the South Pacific Delta will ever fly to is Australia, may be New Zealand. Islands FORGET ABOUT IT. Sydney is the only market those 777LR's are going to any time soon from LAX or Atlanta. I'm looking for LAX to Orient international flights from Delta.

don't be so sure. Market Planning at DL is an all new organization who thinks and acts differently than
pre-BK days.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11234 times:

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 3):
Is SLC-SYD even possible?

Tech-wise with a 772LR SLC-SYD is possible, but O&D $$$ dictates a stop at LAX before continuing to SYD. Somehow when the much rumored 787 comes on line for DL I think ATL-SYD will be a stronger likelihood since LAX-SYD has as much capacity as it currently has. Who knows, perhaps DL could start a huge comprehensive codeshare with AS and do SEA-SYD which would also be more viable than many think.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Different - yes, Crazy - no! Dont look for Delta airplanes at the Cook Islands or Tonga in the near future.

Maybe an occasional charter of Americans attempting to behave like Canadians showing that Fiji and the Cook Islands can be discovered like the D.R.!  biggrin 



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
25 CV880 : DL has no codeshare with either AQ or HA and very thin service to Hawaii after August07. It's about time to marry HA and use the 767-300's to roam the
26 DAL767400ER : Perhaps, but as far as being different goes, I'll refer Dutchjet's quote: The chance of DL starting anything to the South Pacific outside of OZ and N
27 SLCUT2777 : DL is in the process of reconfiguring their service to Hawaii. There are strong rumors that all service to Hawaii directly from SLC could be complete
28 SLCUT2777 : SQ seams to make EWR-SIN work. How viable is ATL-SIN vs. LAX-SIN?
29 RB211 : You took the words right out of my mouth. While it sounds crazy to do an "A-B" routing, routing an 777LR say from: LAX-PPG-AKL-LAX 4158nm-1561nm-5655
30 Dutchjet : Fiji is an interesting spot, I was there a few years ago.......has potential but its just too far away for mainstream US tourism. And, bringing plane
31 Post contains links PanAm747 : I think the nation being mentioned should properly be listed as "Western Samoa", not to be confused with the American territory of "American Samoa".
32 Omoo : wheeeeee ......... Nukuʻalofa here i come !
33 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Highly doubtful we'll ever see Fiji or the Cook Islands very high up there. Australia or Japan likely remain their best draws, but their isolation do
34 Post contains images RB211 : Does anyone see the possibility of PPT in there somewhere, or is that just wishful thinking.? (And it probably is)
35 787EWR : I agree with LAX-SIN, but competition is competition. I would imagine American frequent flyers have more Delta miles than Singapore Girl miles. Delta
36 Post contains images OGGFBORefueler : If I'm not mistaken HA does HNL-PPT services weekly. Aloha! Keone
37 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Unless TN goes kaput, and even then AF does LAX-PPT. So SkyTeam has that one covered.
38 WorldTraveler : "western" has not been a part of Samoa's name for 10 years. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ws.html
39 Dutchjet : Very unlikely......PPT is a tough market, just ask CO which flew there many years ago. Demand is not the problem, yields are...... And, as you point
40 SLCUT2777 : Unless it is from JFK where "it isn't there" when a few other west coast markets could be much better for north America west coast to PPT service (di
41 Dutchjet : True, the JFK experiment has been a failure......Air Tahiti also hoped to establish itself in the NYC-Australia market by offering effecient JFK-PPT-
42 Post contains images Airbazar : I have yet to set foot in ATL and I doubt I'll ever do it unless one day I have to travel to S.America on DL but even then, MIA of IAH will probably
43 Post contains images Rwy04LGA : As for ATL, there is that old saying, "on your way to heaven, you have to transfer at Atlanta". I think the saying goes 'Whether you're going to Heave
44 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Could we see U.S. to other Australia airports other than SYD (Kingsford-Smith)? From a U. S. destination? I'm not the Australia expert on trans-ocean
45 MDL21483 : i can see DL using 777 service ATL to New Zealand as a stopover for continuation into Sydney and Melbourne, the other smaller routes just wouldnt have
46 787EWR : ""The company has its roots in Huff Daland Dusters, which was founded in 1924 in Macon, Georgia by several partners including Collett E. Woolman beco
47 SunriseValley : Not that far off; NZ are probably only hauling 90K max on AKL-SFO on their 772's. Some one who knows his "stuff" told me it is all about balance. He
48 Dutchjet : SYD and MEL are the cities where there is money to be made due to high demand, premium and business traffic, etc. The populations at ADL, BSB and PER
49 DAL767400ER : If DL doesn't like ATL, then explain to me ATL-ICN, ATL-VIE, ATL-DXB, ATL-LOS or ATL-PRG, all of which DL are adding this year alone.
50 Therock401 : Would it be feasible to think NW would use one of their 787s and try SEA-SYD 3x or 4x, given the codeshare with AS and NW's substantial operation in S
51 787EWR : Very feasible, if Australia allows them to fly there. Would it be a financial success is a major question, but I think it is very possible. I believe
52 Dutchjet : As you may know, NW tried service to Australia about 15 years ago, it did not work out very well, and its unlikely that NW has any interest in return
53 WorldTraveler : You are obviously severely out of touch w/ reality. ATL was one of four hubs "blessed" by the CAB when they established the US air transportation sys
54 Post contains images HighFlyer9790 : That got a good chuckle out of me to I think DL is really starting to focus more on the Asia/Oceania side of the globe, considering they have europe
55 Post contains images Sydscott : Not forgetting the daily QF 744 on the route.
56 AADC10 : You have to understand that American Samoa is desperate for more air service. The only real way on or off of American Samoa is by air and they are cur
57 AADC10 : Sorry, I meant PPG, not PGP. I accidentally clicked on post instead of edit.
58 WorldTraveler : except that the certificate is for Samoa, not America Samoa. Nonetheless, I am certain that DL is talking to American Samoa - who would love to ditch
59 Zkpilot : or the daily NZ 772 + 744 + 763 flights
60 NZAA : Wouldn't getting into American Samoa be fine? Delta is after all an American Airline right?
61 Goldorak : yes and I think DL is already code-sharing with AF on this flight (do they ?) surely not. It will be ATL-LAX connecting to AF LAX-PPT.
62 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : BSB is certainly the likely third gateway to Australia. It is more of a leisure market since it has more of the south Florida climate rather than the
63 Dutchjet : Been to all of the major Australian cities.........BSB is far more leisure oriented, think of Australia's answer to Florida without the power of a ma
64 LAXdude1023 : Not really. Just because ATL has a huge bank of connecting flights, there are three things to consider: 1) no local market 2) it will be very expensi
65 AirCanada014 : its sad to see them trying to get South Pacific now instead of trying way back in early 90s...
66 Dutchjet : The same was said about ATL-Africa services, ATL-DXB and ATL-TLV routes........
67 LAXdude1023 : But ATL is not really that far out of the way for most people going to those destinations. Not to mention that People from those places can connect i
68 Dutchjet : 1. ATL is a megahub well suited to handle all US East Coast traffic. 2. For years, AA/QF have proposed DFW-SYD nonstop service which would allow ones
69 Ken777 : Brisbane does have direct flights to LAX, but Perth is too far from anywhere in the US to consider a direct flight. Best options on oneworld is via S
70 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Nothing, I dont really think it would work well either. It does well with Cargo. Passenger loads arent really that good on it. On a very long flight
71 Dutchjet : Well, we will just have to ""agree to disagree"" on this one. I am not. Cheers.
72 WorldTraveler : the point is that American Samoa and Samoa are not the same places. DL applied at the same time as AA for HNL-SYD service. DL's proposal was an L1011
73 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : I can live with that.
74 SLCUT2777 : While Southern California-Australia might be hands down the biggest market of O&D traffic to the "Land Down Under" from the "Land of the Free and the
75 LAXdude1023 : But given all of the competition on the West Coast is that going to fill a plane on a daily basis? Just because ATL is a superhub doesnt mean it can
76 WorldTraveler : yet, DL is on the verge of serving more cities in Asia from ATL than AA has at either ORD or DFW... and DL's current Asian presence is profitable.
77 LAXdude1023 : Thats very true. I think ATL-Asia is good from DL because it can help feed DL's Latin American flights and there is actually a market for it. The con
78 SLCUT2777 : There are many in the east that might just prefer a shorter trip to the international portal for such a connection. Metro-ATL to Australia; virtually
79 LAXdude1023 : And I respect yours as well. I dont really know about DL at LAX much myself. They have an uphill battle. LAX is tough to conquer and I dont know if D
80 MotorHussy : QF also operates a daily 744 between the two ports. You need to brush up on your history and geography; there is no reference to Pago Pago and Americ
81 MotorHussy : Think you mean BNE.
82 Gemuser : Who with? There is nobody else in Oz, only the QF group & DJ All of whom will be operating Oz-USA, why would they help their competators. Tiger is sc
83 UAL777UK : Would people really fly from as North as BOS down to ATL tp fly to SYD?? I appreciate some might argue, "yes, If the price is right", but then that o
84 DAL767400ER : What other option would they have? In the end, everything would be going via LAX, or to a considerable lesser degree SFO, and a BOS-ATL-SYD routing i
85 Dutchjet : This has actually evolved into a rather interesting thread: while no one really expects DL to launch services to the South Pacific Islands, Delta flyi
86 777STL : Maybe. But LAX is more or less on the way to Australia from anywhere in the continental US. How many people who live west of the Mississippi are goin
87 Dutchjet : But quite a few people live east of the Mississippi. And, you would be shocked as to how many passengers (including premium pax) will ""back-track""
88 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Which is my point entirely on any DL-SYD service in the future. I likewise apologize for not applying the correct code to Brisbaane. But that said, B
89 Zkpilot : NZ currently has a daily flight from AKL-SFO (mix of 772ER and 744), they are also about to start another North American route to YVR 3x weekly for t
90 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Absolutely. No one is wrong, and people who have argued for both LAX and ATL have made excellent points. I wont lie, Im a bit biased (as anyone who c
91 WorldTraveler : it is highly possible that DL could serve LAX-SYD w/ a 777ER on a daily basis and add ATL-SYD on a 3-4 days/week basis down the road. I don't think AT
92 LAXdude1023 : I think ATL-JNB would be a great option for the LR and I agree with you on SYD. The LR will open new doors for ATL.
93 777STL : That wasn't my point. If the east coast was as a big of a market as you suggest, wouldn't QF be routing more than 1x 744, 4x/week, to JFK? Lemme clar
94 Dutchjet : They are, the QF JFK flight is now a daily service. And if the flight was not making money, why would QF do it? Merely to haul cargo, unlikely. I am
95 LAXdude1023 : Its 5x weekly and going daily, but your point is still valid. Not yet, but its getting there. Any particular problem with MEM-LAX-SYD? This is very t
96 Gemuser : They make money hauling the cargo! They do it, currently 5 days a week, not daily, on a breake even, make a little basis for stratigic, marketing rea
97 Sparklehorse12 : HA serve Pago Pago but the last time I was in Independant Samoa the American Samoa government were going to revoke their licence.....has there been an
98 MotorHussy : They'll also be competing against the feed that AA gives to QF with their multiplicity of U.S. code-shares (and UA's to NZ). MH
99 SLCUT2777 : Just a crazy thought on this gang! Anyone ever consider how well DL might do on perhaps an SEA-SYD run? I know DL lacks the connectivity up at Seatac
100 LAXdude1023 : It would be tough, but if DL had connectivity it might work. Seattle doesnt have a huge local market to Australia, but its certainly bigger than Atla
101 GlobalATL : Per last Fridays weekly Flt Ops update by Steve Dixon...LAX is gonna get the feed to support virtually any Asia/OZ service just the same way that DL h
102 DeltaDAWG : I'd beg to differ on that point. At the University of Georgia in Athens there is an Australian Professors League that is comprised of around 600 pers
103 CV880 : The sooner that DL realizes that California is an economic engine with over 30M people, and should be able to support a hub of some sort, with nonstop
104 Post contains images WorldTraveler : I’m quite sure DL realizes the potential LAX has…. AA probably would expand if it had gates but it doesn’t. UA doesn’t have airplanes and woul
105 LAXdude1023 : Yes they could have. However if DL can pull it off and add the domestic feed to LAX along with the international service at LAX that UA has (or bette
106 WorldTraveler : all the indications are that DL is doing what it takes to surpass UA and AA in quality....both of product and service.... also, while cargo may be a b
107 Gemuser : Not true! QF can only carry pax LAX-JFK that orginate or arrive outside the USA. In practicle schedule terms that is usually Oz & NZ, but in theory i
108 WorldTraveler : theoretically, yes but in practicality, I'm not so sure.
109 777STL : I'd venture to guess there are far more Aussies in the So Cal area than there are in the southeast. 12,000 people is nothing. If that cargo is making
110 Dutchjet : Well, as I said above, we will just have to ""agree to disagree"" on this topic........I do think that we will see nonstop flights to Australia launc
111 Viscount724 : Are you certain about the conditions of the QF traffic rights LAX-JFK? I thought they could only carry their own online connecting or stopover traffi
112 SFORunner : If I recall, the terms of the US - Australia bi-lateral does not permit new service frequency (regardless of carrier) to start off on a daily basis.
113 WorldTraveler : agree it is an anticompetitive restriction but if DL is willing to put up w/ that restriction to get started, they can ultimately succeed. as long as
114 Post contains links Gemuser : Its in here: http://www.austlii.edu.au//cgi-bin/d...46/8.html?query=america%20aviation The problem is it's not consilodated. That is, the orginal tre
115 Viscount724 : Thanks very much. After a quick scan of some of the later amendments which I found using the Search facility, the only reference I could see that mig
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