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United And TAM To Launch Codeshare  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24858 posts, RR: 46
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6831 times:

TAM and United Airlines Sign Memorandum of Understanding for Codeshare and Frequent Flyer Programs
Friday May 18,

Agreement will enable TAM and United customers to connect to new South American and United States destinations and will expand frequent flyer opportunities for customers of both carriers

SAO PAULO, Brazil, May 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- TAM Linhas Aereas (Bovespa: TAMM4 and NYSE: TAM) and United Airlines (NASDAQ: UAUA - News), a founding member of the Star Alliance, will sign today a memorandum of understanding to develop an agreement that enables the airlines to offer codeshare flights with each other and expands international destinations and frequent flyer opportunities for customers of both carriers.

The proposed agreement will result in more options for customers traveling between Brazil and the United States. The agreement includes the implementation of codeshare on TAM and United flights, giving customers of United's Mileage Plus® and TAM's Fidelidade programs the opportunity to earn and redeem miles to destinations never-before served.



http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070518/spf001.html?.v=63


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6813 times:

Incredible and surprising, althought LipeGIG told us about this yesterday.

Congrats to both. I know many people on this forum think that TAM is not interested in an Alliance, but this does get them a little closer to Star Alliance.

I assume the partnership with Varig will go away now????

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,1195,00.html


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6799 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
Congrats to both. I know many people on this forum think that TAM is not interested in an Alliance, but this does get them a little closer to Star Alliance.

They also signed a large agreement with LAN last week. It get's them no closer to Star than that got them to oneWorld. It is quite clear TAM has no plans to join an alliance right now.

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):

I assume the partnership with Varig will go away now????

Yes, but I wouldn't be shocked if the new Varig pairs up with AA.



a.
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

TAM is getting in bed with everyone to test the waters and see which alliance fits them best. This is probably the beginning of the end of the AA/TAM relationship, though.

User currently offlineJobalas From France, joined Mar 2001, 146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6760 times:

and what about relationship between AF and JJ ( and skyteam?) ?


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la Terre...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6693 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

It could change a lot UA focus on South America. With a strong partner again, UA is about to return to MIA and IMO, we could expect at least some new UA flights out of MIA (including MIA-MCO) to take care of this agreement. Considering also that TAM could fly to LAX in the near future (as well as additional services to MIA), seems that we can see AA leadership in US-Brazil market in a not so comfortable position !

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
With a strong partner again, UA is about to return to MIA and IMO, we could expect at least some new UA flights out of MIA (including MIA-MCO) to take care of this agreement.

Interesting. I doubt it, but it would be nice to see.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
seems that we can see AA leadership in US-Brazil market in a not so comfortable position !

I truly doubt that. While the loss of TAM is unfortunate and puts AA in a weaker position, they are still very comfortable. Remember, they are about to double the number of cities they serve in Brazil, and still offer the largest variety of service.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6667 times:

UA will not be trying MIA again. They are still bleeding money in Latin America and do not have the resources or presence in the southern US to make Latin America work.

This agreement also does not move TAM any closer to Star. They have built their European network around CDG and Air France. Those 77Ws are a bit to much to be flying to other European hubs – and Germany just doesn’t’ generate the Star is very protective about its carriers having relationships outside of the alliance.

Varig is or will be controlled by Gol. What will be interesting to watch is whether Gol and Varig align with AA or DL.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6662 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 3):
This is probably the beginning of the end of the AA/TAM relationship, though.

If TAM and UA will be working together, exactly where does that leave AA? Doesnt AA and TAM codeshare on (some) flights between the US and Brasil?


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6651 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):
They have built their European network around CDG and Air France.

and soon to FRA with Lufthansa


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

they won't have multiple frequencies to CDG and FRA... because the hub carriers at each of those cities are in 2 different alliances...

but TAM isn't joining any alliance any time soon.... they don't need to.... when you have the only viable int'l service from the largest country in S. America, people beg to be associated w/ you. TAM's best option for now is to "play the field"


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6480 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
they won't have multiple frequencies to CDG and FRA... because the hub carriers at each of those cities are in 2 different alliances...

Who is "they"? TAM flies three daily flights to Paris, and will be adding a fourth soon.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

let me introduce to the conjunction "AND". I said that Tam won't be flying to CDG AND FRA multiple times per day.

TAM is the only proper noun before "they" in your quote.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
when you have the only viable int'l service from the largest country in S. America

What do you mean by "only"?


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
let me introduce to the conjunction "AND". I said that Tam won't be flying to CDG AND FRA multiple times per day.

TAM is the only proper noun before "they" in your quote.

No need to be so rude.

It is extremely possible TAM will be double-daily to Frankfurt within 12 months of launching service. They like to utilize their planes heavily, which means not having them sit at airports and running daylights and redeyes. That's why when the fourth daily flight to Miami is launched later this year, it means a 5th daily is coming too.



a.
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8212 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):
This agreement also does not move TAM any closer to Star. They have built their European network around CDG and Air France.

Did you forget the recent agreement with TAP, the largest carrier between Brazil and Europe by a long mile? TAM may have the most flights to CDG with their own metal but they've just jumped in bed with TP, now UA, and are looking to join LH in FRA. It's pretty obvious which way they're heading.


User currently offlineORD Boy 2 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

I agree I think Star is close to getting TAM

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6078 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 15):
Did you forget the recent agreement with TAP, the largest carrier between Brazil and Europe by a long mile? TAM may have the most flights to CDG with their own metal but they've just jumped in bed with TP, now UA, and are looking to join LH in FRA. It's pretty obvious which way they're heading.

Also, the partnerships with TP and UA at least are far more interesting for JJ than AA and AF for example. Both Tap and United will allow Tam to use it's entire network and their customers can obtain FF miles in any flight. UA will not limit the number of seats as AA use to, and even considering they will have to find a solution for MIA and CDG, it's not a big problem. So i agree that Tam is closer to Star than any other alliance nowadays, but do they will join ? Good question and only the future will answer.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 15):
and are looking to join LH in FRA.

says who?

TAM has the lion's share of the Brazilian int'l and domestic traffic at this point.... they may well be moving toward Star but I think they are making a mistake if they do. AF can be far more supportive to the in Europe and DL has a stronger presence and brighter future in Brazil than UA does. TAM won't lose w/ Star but I think Skyteam would be better for them.

but there are still no indications they are making a decision to go with Star. they are signing commercial relationships that make sense for them, regardless of the alliances those other carriers are in.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24858 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5981 times:

TAM will be indeed signing up a cooperative deal with Lufthansa . The airline on more then one occasions has indicated this desire to partner with LH and the benefits the FRA hub provides.

Here is an article which mentions a LH-TAM agreement might come as soon as Monday
http://portalexame.abril.com.br/ae/economia/m0129497.html


This other article covering the TAM-UA deal also mentions TAM will discontinue its partnership with AA once the broader UA agreement is approved.
http://www.mercadoeeventos.com.br/sc...?pStrLink=3,26,0,20272&IndSeguro=0



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):

TAM has the lion's share of the Brazilian int'l and domestic traffic at this point.... they may well be moving toward Star but I think they are making a mistake if they do. AF can be far more supportive to the in Europe and DL has a stronger presence and brighter future in Brazil than UA does. TAM won't lose w/ Star but I think Skyteam would be better for them.

TAM's not joining an alliance. They have made that very clear over and over again. They will soon have strong partnerships with United, Lufthansa, all four LAN airlines, TAP, and Air France, among others.



a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5954 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
TAM's not joining an alliance. They have made that very clear over and over again. They will soon have strong partnerships with United, Lufthansa, all four LAN airlines, TAP, and Air France, among others.

It also means airliners will lure GOL to join an alliance. GOL this year launched its FF program, meaning it will be ready to negotiate an agreement soon. If GOL joins an alliance, it will means TAM will also have to make up its mind.

Rgs


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7499 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
let me introduce to the conjunction "AND". I said that Tam won't be flying to CDG AND FRA multiple times per day.

TAM is the only proper noun before "they" in your quote.

Ow come on man, no call to be so rude.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
AF can be far more supportive to the in Europe and DL has a stronger presence and brighter future in Brazil than UA does.

No one will argue that since ATL is indeed the far superior hub, but as fun as it is to talk about how Wonderful DL is, this thread has nothing to do with ATL or DL. You do have an uncanny ability to turn any thread into a DL lovefest.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 19):
TAM will be indeed signing up a cooperative deal with Lufthansa . The airline on more then one occasions has indicated this desire to partner with LH and the benefits the FRA hub provides.

This is great news for UA, LH, and TAM. With rumors of TAM flying LAX-GRU and LA's very large UA FF membership, this will be a win-win for Los Angeles travelers.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 731 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 3):
This is probably the beginning of the end of the AA/TAM relationship, though.

Yup it is. JJ has advised AA they intend to dump the codeshare and frequent flyer agreement.

Too bad! I have really enjoyed working with JJ MIA on a partner level.

Ultimately I think this will have a negative effect for both AA and JJ as together they were strongest US/BR partners, however I think this split will be worse for JJ than AA for several reasons...

1) Seeing that JJ's US gateways are MIA and JFK, UA cannot offer JJ the connectivity that AA can. With no nonstop flights from JJ's main gateway MIA to LAX, SFO, BOS, JFK, LGA, TPA, and especially MCO (80 or more MCO passengers from JJ is not unusual). Most JJ passengers will still connect to AA at MIA. I doubt UA will jump back into these markets just to accommodate some codeshare passengers.

2) AA passengers will now not have the option of an AA* flight operated by JJ on the international sector and thus will stay on AA metal for their entire journey.

3) And finally with AA introducing more nonstop flights to new cities in Brazil there will be fewer AA passengers connecting to JJ domestic flights.


I had an idea that JJ was looking around, but I thought they were talking to DL. Especially a couple month's ago when the JJ manager of international airports introduced me to a couple of JJ top managers from Brazil who were flying AA from MIA-ATL. When I shook their hand I told them that I sure hoped they were not going to leave us for DL and then told me "Never" and smiled  Smile

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8212 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

Well, that depends on how you look at it. It may be good for AA from the US side, but the reverse may not be so good. Miami and New York, along with LA are by far the largest destinations for Brazilian travelers. TAM will not have to share the traffic with a partner because UA's presence in S.America is minimal so their yields will improve. American travelers may pick AA over TAM, but Brazilian travelers will likely pick TAM over AA. TAM probably feels that currently there isn't enough demand for cities other than MIA and JFK to maintain the current agreement with AA. They can carry the O&D traffic and send the connecting traffic on a UA flight. In due time, they can always add a flight to IAD if needed but right now I suspect their US priority is LAX.

25 LipeGIG : Lets say that the big problem is MCO, TPA and Texas main stations, as for LGA and JFK, TAM fly non-stop to JFK. For BOS they can use UA flights to IA
26 MAH4546 : AA will certainly continue to interline with TAM.
27 AJMIA : Yes but even when the codeshare goes away, AA passengers would still be able to interline their bags with JJ. The only problem is they will not be ab
28 Hardiwv : Yes, but UA pax will have full codeshare with JJ for ALL routes. UA will now have a major advantage to expand in Brazil considering it has the suppor
29 Rafabozzolla : Depending on time of the year AA has 3 to 4 planes resting on the tarmac all day at GRU, only the JFK flight goes onward to GIG. Maybe they could retu
30 LipeGIG : Was a surprise for many people on TAM HQ's also... seems that the *A focus is something new ! It should be the biggest nightmare TAM has today, and t
31 WorldTraveler : The only winner in all this is UA…. UA is still very weak in South America and it is hardly clear if having JJ for a partner can help UA there…..
32 C010T3 : I think UA is the winner, because they can offer more options in Brazil to their passengers, but that's about it. I agree that UA might not be intere
33 Airbazar : As has been said, JJ can send some of their connecting passegers on UA via ORD. Also, I wonder if JJ would strike a temporary bilateral deal with a LC
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