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DL To Start LAX-ICT  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33278 posts, RR: 71
Posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9058 times:

Yeah, um...

DL 7963 LAX 1615-2115 ICT ERJ Daily
DL 7687 ICT 0820-0920 LAX ERJ Daily

Makes more sense than McAllen, at least. Starts 1 July 2007. Operated at-risk by ExpressJet.


a.
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9042 times:

Could they catch some Boeing traffic between Long Beach and Wichita?


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33278 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9027 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Could they catch some Boeing traffic between Long Beach and Wichita?

With the 717 line long close, is there even much left? I would figure ICT-SEA has the Boeing traffic. TWA used to fly ICT-SEA.



a.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9027 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
With the 717 line long close, is there even much left?

Military.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9027 times:

Amazing to see this...considering the crap ICT pulled with AirTran and subsidies. I'd just assume cut more service into there and see how their airport authority feels about it.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8676 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
TWA used to fly ICT-SEA.

I do not remember TW ever doing that, unless it was a routing via STL.
However, I do remember CO doing it, very briefly however: 1968.

To the topic, I cannot figure how they expect this route to succeed.......I don't know what y'all have, but my Q3/06 DOT shows 93 pax a day....or about 46.5 a day each direction; being serviced currently by any number of connections over DFW, DEN, and PHX.
Continental Route Map 1968


[Edited 2007-05-20 00:18:29]

[Edited 2007-05-20 00:21:15]


Delete this User
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8650 times:

What an odd route.
First McAllen, now this???

Odd route choices from DL that's for sure.

-Copa


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8542 times:

Anyone know if ICT is an overnight maintenance station for ExpressJet? This would make a bit more sense then..

And maybe this means we're one step closer to LAX-AMA, LAX-LBB, LAX-MAF, and LAX-RAP.. Big grin


User currently offlineCALeeIII From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

How about BHM-LAX? Does anyone think that would be ever possible? UA flew 2 727 a day back in the '70s....

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17822 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

I saw this addition on Thursday and thought it was odd because a) it's probably something XJet would consider, but all things considered it would be better to operate it in any other airilne's colors and b) it's an odd addition considering DL's history vis a vis ICT Smile


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8486 times:

Quoting CALeeIII (Reply 8):
How about BHM-LAX? Does anyone think that would be ever possible? UA flew 2 727 a day back in the '70s....

I always thought this would be a good route for WN. The 145XR can't make that distance though.


User currently offlineCALeeIII From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8380 times:

Quoting XJET (Reply 10):
Quoting CALeeIII (Reply 8):
How about BHM-LAX? Does anyone think that would be ever possible? UA flew 2 727 a day back in the '70s....

I always thought this would be a good route for WN. The 145XR can't make that distance though.

I certainly didn't mean for an ERJ. But, what about the CRJ9 like the new BHM-SLC or the EMB170? WN does offer it as a 1-stop destination once a day.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8329 times:

Quoting CALeeIII (Reply 11):
But, what about the CRJ9 like the new BHM-SLC or the EMB170? WN does offer it as a 1-stop destination once a day.

It's a bit too long of a route for a CRJ-900 even - SLC-YYZ/PIT were pushing it (both are 1660 miles) while LAX-BHM is over 1800 miles. The smallest plane DL could do this on would be the 737-800, and I don't really see Delta putting that big of a plane on this route when passengers can just as easily connect over ATL or SLC.

Plus, the thought of spending over 4 hours flying time (not block time, but takeoff to touchdown) on an RJ is a bit crazy.


User currently offlineTSRA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8277 times:

LAX is ICT's third most popular destination. I've posted in another thread that ICT (and surrounding area) has a very large Asian population (anyone who has worked in ICT and loaded all those 70lbs duck taped boxes to LAX and beyond can attest to that). What the 3rd quarter report does not show is how many people drive to MCI for a non-stop, cheaper flight. I'm sure DL and ICT kissed and made up after DL was given some money to support this. Knowing the central us market, this flight will do very well...... as long as the price is right. The ICT market is such that people actually weigh the cost of driving to MCI/OKC, parking, and cheap non-stop flights to flying out of ICT. Sometimes its cheaper to drive 2 1/2-3 hours then to fly from their hometown airport.

User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

It's odd, as I would have expected LAX-MCI before LAX-ICT.

-Copa


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8228 times:

Quoting TSRA (Reply 13):
has a very large Asian population

Define very large. New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles have very large Asian populations. Wichita? Not so large.

Quoting TSRA (Reply 13):
(anyone who has worked in ICT and loaded all those 70lbs duck taped boxes to LAX and beyond can attest to that)

Then the ERJ isn't going to be a good aircraft choice for those huge boxes going to LAX.

Not saying the flight won't work, but let's not oversell it. An ERJ is perfect for O&D and the random person connecting to Tijuana.

[Edited 2007-05-20 03:16:02]

User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8180 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 6):

Odd route choices from DL that's for sure.

Actually, this is an at-risk route for Expressjet, which means XE is collecting the fares and basically paying DL for use of the brand.


User currently offlineTSRA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8141 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 15):
Define very large. New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles have very large Asian populations. Wichita? Not so large.

Silly BigGSFO, of course New York, San Francisco, and Los Angeles have larger Asian populations then Wichita. The point you missed was per capita in the REGION.....
Any way

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 14):
It's odd, as I would have expected LAX-MCI before LAX-ICT.

There are 2 very BIG reasons they do not do MCI-LAX
1) WN 4 non-stops a day
2) YX 3 non-stops a day
The low end of the ticket price range is covered obviously but WN and the high end by YX. It would be extremely difficult to use an RJ to compete against YX's product.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2998 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8129 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 5):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
TWA used to fly ICT-SEA.

I do not remember TW ever doing that, unless it was a routing via STL.

I remembered it vaguely running for a short time, but a little digging found it:

5x/week ICT-SEA nonstops on TWA M80's, February through June 1998

Averaged just under 25% full, or about 35 people per flight.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8116 times:

Quoting TSRA (Reply 17):
Silly BigGSFO, of course New York, San Francisco, and Los Angeles have larger Asian populations then Wichita. The point you missed was per capita in the REGION.....
Any way

 Smile

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 18):
5x/week ICT-SEA nonstops on TWA M80's, February through June 1998

Averaged just under 25% full, or about 35 people per flight.

Indeed. They had high hopes for this flight but....


User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8053 times:

Quoting TSRA (Reply 17):
There are 2 very BIG reasons they do not do MCI-LAX
1) WN 4 non-stops a day
2) YX 3 non-stops a day
The low end of the ticket price range is covered obviously but WN and the high end by YX. It would be extremely difficult to use an RJ to compete against YX's product.

Yeah...but. Why are we going to be doing PHX, DEN, SEA, PDX, SFO, OAK....etc, etc, etc..... It doesn't seem like the DL or XE is trying to aviod major competition. DL needs feed for its new flights that are currently there, as well as future international expansion.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7916 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 6):
What an odd route.
First McAllen, now this???

Odd route choices from DL that's for sure.

Odd? Or an untapped niche market?  spin 


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7724 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 5):
I do not remember TW ever doing that, unless it was a routing via STL.



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 18):
I remembered it vaguely running for a short time, but a little digging found it:

5x/week ICT-SEA nonstops on TWA M80's, February through June 1998

Averaged just under 25% full, or about 35 people per flight.



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 19):
Indeed. They had high hopes for this flight but....

Yes, I remember it too, but WHY??? That has to be the oddest non-hub route I've ever seen.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Quoting TSRA (Reply 13):
I've posted in another thread that ICT (and surrounding area) has a very large Asian population

Here is a look at Sedgewick County...And the list of the most popular languages spoken.
Vietnamese is up there. About one and half percent of the total population.

English 372,640 89.46%
All Languages other than English combined 43,884 10.53%
Spanish 26,105 6.26%
Vietnamese 6,220 1.49%
German 1,840 0.44%
Arabic 1,160 0.27%
Laotian 1,115 0.26%
French 1,104 0.26%
Chinese 1,069 0.25%
Tagalog 550 0.13%
Mon-Khmer, Cambodian 485 0.11%
Korean 435 0.10%
Urdu 383 0.09%
Hindi 375 0.09%
Japanese 330 0.07%
Persian 325 0.07%
Bengali 219 0.05%
Swahili 199 0.04%
Thai 130 0.03%
Greek 125 0.03%
Italian 125 0.03%
Dutch 124 0.02%
Cantonese 120 0.02%
Gujarathi 115 0.02%
Mandarin 90 0.02%
Portuguese 90 0.02%
Amharic 85 0.02%
Russian 84 0.02%
Bantu 80 0.01%
Romanian 74 0.01%
Formosan 70 0.01%

Source: US Census Estimate 2005

Quoting TSRA (Reply 13):
LAX is ICT's third most popular destination.

Source?
Latest figures I have come across are for Q3/06, have things changed that much since then?
LAX shows as 9th, Chicago being 3rd.

Destination | Avg Pax | Avg Fare
1. (LAS) 240.89 $193.76
2. (ATL) 233.56 $150.60
3. (ORD) 159.56 $255.13
4. (MCO) 130.67 $161.47
5. (PHX) 125.78 $238.31
6. (DEN) 104.22 $254.63
7. (DFW) 104.00 $257.91
8. (SEA) 96.22 $348.31
9. (LAX) 93.33 $270.51

Source: DOT

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 18):
5x/week ICT-SEA nonstops on TWA M80's, February through June 1998

I was only thinking 30 years the wrong way.

Wonder if Boeing had some sort of contract with Boeing for the flights? Since the two cities share the same industrial base and an employer (But not the only employer, as Wichita is more than just Boeing).



Delete this User
User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7578 times:

Quoting TSRA (Reply 13):
I've posted in another thread that ICT (and surrounding area) has a very large Asian population (anyone who has worked in ICT

The Asian population of the Wichita CSA is 18,780... No matter how large the metro area is, that is not a very significant Asian population...


25 FlyingJHawk : I travel to Wichita from Kansas City every week and I almost consider it a secondary residence so I am glad to see this non-stop route open up from pu
26 TWAmbassador : The TW flight SEA-ICT was subsidized by Boeing so financially TW had nothing to lose. I think Boeing was hoping that by allowing TW to sell seats on t
27 UA777300ER : May I ask, where do you get this kind of information? I've been looking around on the DOT and FAA websites, but can't find anything... Tom
28 Post contains images BN727flyr : That'll be the day. I'd love to see it, but I'm not holding my breath.
29 Knope2001 : Thanks for the info...I wondered if it was something like that.
30 RJNUT : I wonder if eventually Express Jet's stand alone brand doesnt convert over to the DL "at risk flying",,This might be a test in certain" odd-ball" mark
31 Jfk777 : Is Delta going LAX to Seoul, South Korea with a 777 ? That would be great. I would love to see those new 777LR's from LAX to Asia.
32 PVD757 : routes like these make me hold out the tiniest bit of hope that PVD has a slim chance for a LAX flight once those 73Gs start arriving...
33 Ginger727 : I don't have the exact figures in front of me at the moment, but DL and XJet consider the ICT-LAX market to include not just LAX, but the entire LA Ba
34 HVNandrew : Interesting thought. In that case, DL could use the SAT XJet base to regain some ground in Texas and build up a nice little micro-hub.
35 Jumbojettim : The loads on the midwest cities to ONT, are picking up, it does take some time. Keep in mind that the a/c that XE is going to use for the DL flying wi
36 Ginger727 : As to DeltaGuy's comments about the airport authority and "the crap they pulled with AirTran and subsidies," it may not mean much, but the airport doe
37 WorldTraveler : it is probably more likely that new LRs will be based in ATL and the 777ERs will move to LAX. There are few markets from LAX that NEED a 777LR. yes b
38 Post contains links CitationJet : I believe that is true: http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=1832 See pages 16-20: http://www.wichita.gov/NR/rdonlyre
39 Ginger727 : There have been no organizational changes to the way the airport is staffed or run as a result of the Delta complaint to the FAA over the city subsidy
40 Tornado82 : CO ran the ExpressJet 145XR's on routes approximately that long for years prior to this. IAH-BOI/BFL. EWR-OKC. CLE-ABQ. They were out there.
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