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Why Do Some Countries Love National Airlines?  
User currently offlineHawker From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

This question may be an alian concept to many Americans, but in Australia there has been great upset about Qantas being taken over, even though they have not been a government owned airline for many years. Similarly in Britian there is an emotional attachment to BA. Not sure of the situation in Europe although of course various national airlines have already gone belly up.

Maybe it only countries where the citizens like to travel a lot that want a corrresponding reliable link with home?

What do people think?

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineShuggie From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6417 times:

The national airline carries the flag of the country and represents them abroad and is seen by the world as a symbol of that nations identity. Most countries **sweeping generalistion coming up** have one major airline that dominates the others abroad and it stands to reason that a nation will want to see that airline succeed, it's like supporting your country's team in The World Cup

This doesn't really apply in the USA where they have 6 massive airlines representing them overseas....



(Just read the reply by Stitch - maybe I need to reconsider Big grin)

[Edited 2007-05-19 23:58:34]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31395 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6408 times:
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Not so alien to us, Hawker. We too went into an uproar at the thought of our favorite US carrier being taken over, even if by another US carrier.

Of course, it's because we worry what would happen to our frequent flier programs, but... Big grin


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6383 times:

Quote:
Why Do Some Countries Love National Airlines?

Why Do Countries Love The Olympic Games?

Same thing.

What if there was no such thing as the Australian Cricket Team? Or Rugby Team?
What if there was no English Football side?

Identity and Influence man, nothing else. Since apes first walked upright, it has been all about spreading the collective influence of the *Tribe* as far as it will go.



Delete this User
User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

It's an emotional attachment to a bygone age, somewhat exploited by ex-state-owned airlines milking the symbolism of their former status. What I mean by that is, for example, BA is privatised in the 80's, but it keeps it's name, it's image, and continues to play the role of flag-carrier, therefore making it difficult for joe public to appreciate that it is now in fact a totally different animal, run solely on behalf of shareholders, and in fear of a bad rap in 'The City', and completely divorced from philosophical notions of national pride. If, however, they had changed their name, and their image, that nationalistic sympolism would be lost, and their true colours would be clear for all to see and understand. And of course they would be crazy to do that!  Smile

Riv'



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6157 times:

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 4):
BA is privatised in the 80's, but it keeps it's name, it's image, and continues to play the role of flag-carrier,

They did away with their image and their name when they introduced the World Tails scheme. What I wouldn't give to see a bunch of triple 7's and 747's flying around in that Landor Livery. TRUELY British.

The new one has a cheap dot.com look to it, a la so many other carriers.

UAL


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

Well, the United States is very big, we never had a 'national airline,' per se. Back in the day it was PanAm, and to some degree TWA, today we have United, American, and Delta, and I think we'd have a real problem with them getting taken over, especially not by a largely foreign entity. British and American would love to merge, do you think the public and congress would ever let that fly? I don't think so. The Germans would never let a big American, Japanese, Asian, or whoever equity fund buy out Lufthansa? Doubt it.

America is bigger, has more airlines, so instead of having one we cling to, we've got 3, and then some. Everyone here has theirs, largely by geography.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
I think we'd have a real problem with them getting taken over, especially not by a largely foreign entity

Agree. Even though the US has no one "true" flag carrier, it's still a major punch in the national pride when big companies - especially airlines - are taken over by foreigners. The same thing goes for other companies of "national heritage and pride", for instance car manufacturers.

For airlines, the national love can be like the love some people have for a football team. Look at the Belgian public, when Sabena went under - a lost World Cup football final couldn't have brought out as many tears as this. Personally, I have much more love for national flag carrier, SAS, than for the Danish football team, that sucks nowadays anyway. The national airline is a country's ambassador and billboard commercial in faraway countries. A national airline flying across the globe no doubt has a large spill-over effect on the marketing of a country - something that might even justify government support to national airlines in many cases.

Even though a national airline does not have its roots in a state-owned airline, I still think the above can be very true - setting aside ownership restrictions, I think many Americans would absolute hate to see an American dream like Southwest be taken ower by some Swiss private equity fund, even though WN has never had any formal national relations.

LUV your national airline!!!

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6532 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5801 times:

If Brits would hate the idea of BA being taken over by a foreign company, how was Carnival able to take over Cunard . Were they not a symbol of the UK? KL was taken over by a French company with barely a whimper by the Dutch. London Bridge was bought by an Arizona developer and moved there.

User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5730 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 8):
If Brits would hate the idea of BA being taken over by a foreign company, how was Carnival able to take over Cunard . Were they not a symbol of the UK? KL was taken over by a French company with barely a whimper by the Dutch. London Bridge was bought by an Arizona developer and moved there.

Well, I don't think public opinion would have any sway over who 'owns' BA, as it is fully privitised. Having said that, I believe that their articles of association require the majority shareholdings to be British, so they cannot be taken over by a foreign entity. In the end it is such restrictions, along with national ownership laws, that affect foreign takeovers, not public opinion. Of course one may argue that it is public opinion, or fear of it, that shapes those ownership laws, such as in the US, but unless the government of any particular country retains a majority shareholding in a company then public opinion counts for nothing.

I find it rather quaint for people to get emotional over certain national icons, when those 'national' icons are in fact private commercial organisations whose future prosperity and survival may be hindered by antiquated ownership laws. It's no good having national icons that only exist in the past.



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
America is bigger, has more airlines, so instead of having one we cling to, we've got 3, and then some. Everyone here has theirs, largely by geography.

NW is the largest recognized US airline in Asia. So add them to the list. NW is also the largest US airline to Canada. Finally NW is the oldest US airline now.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5129 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Among other reasons, misplaced national pride, usually prevalent in countries undergoing fundamental identity shifts, questioning their place in the globalized world, or when the airline represents powerful symbol of past glories (however wrong - ex. colonialism).

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5625 times:

Quoting Hawker (Thread starter):
Maybe it only countries where the citizens like to travel a lot that want a corrresponding reliable link with home?

Well I hear that - I only fly BA longhaul (well, going to YYZ next week on Air Transat but BA were nearly £500 and TS were only £238 inc tax from LHR and a longhaul charter from T2 seemed exotic enough to miss out on BA this time, and save a LOT of money). But I love boarding a BA 747 in Los Angeles, Sydney, Toronto, Tokyo, you name it, and (a) I know I'm gonna get home in one piece and on time because I'm in the hands of professionals, and (b) I'm halfway home already, and (c) it's a matter of class and taste. I fly British Airways.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5588 times:

There is also an economic factor involved for many countries. The national airline ensures access to the country for those coming in, and ensures flight availability for those who need to travel out of the country.

It's sort of like airports. Dallas had a huge economic upswing after DFW was opened because of the access it provided. Companies moved to Dallas, with DFW being a significant factor, and there was a lot of economic development.

The national airline ensures that a country is not totally left out of economic growth. While this may not apply to the major economic countries of the world it does apply to many counties. One can probably look back 50 years ago at, say, Singapore and see the impact. SQ, in concert with all of the other programs in the economy, worked to slowly build Singapore to the marvel it is today.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5512 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
One can probably look back 50 years ago at, say, Singapore and see the impact. SQ, in concert with all of the other programs in the economy, worked to slowly build Singapore to the marvel it is today.

This is very true. No other single factor has contributed anywhere near what SQ have, to make Singapore the success story it is today. I mean, come on, it's about the same size as Baltimore. And yet the airline fly daily across the Atlantic and Pacific (arriving in NY from both directions), fly to Africa, all over Europe, you name it.

(Although Singaporeans may love what SQ has done to their island nation, in fact they don't love SQ that much as a customer experience - apparently the cabin crew favour foreigners and the natives get a hard time, I guess because the natives will fly SQ anyway. Something like that. But ask anyone from Singapore what they think of SQ. And take a few paces backwards.)



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineBwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 14):
But ask anyone from Singapore what they think of SQ. And take a few paces backwards.

I just checked with my Singaporean friend. He replied exactly in the way you described he would  Smile  Smile


As for the topic, I guess the posters above got it right, we love our flag carriers because they represent a bit of our homecountry, far away from home. It's national pride. The idea that your country is being represented worldwide and that the moment you step on that plane, you left the strange country you're in and feel a bit at home again. After all, your home carrier will probably have food on board that fits your cuisine, have entertainment that you're familiar with, and the F/A's will speak your language...



I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

Not wishing to overcrowd the thread, having sung the praises of BA and pointed out how ambivalent Singaporeans are about SQ, but one more thing - while BA make me proud to live in Britain and do a great job, I also like to go somewhere on the flag carrier of the destination sometimes, not so much by flying American to LA (zzz) but Iranair to Tehran for instance is really cool - OK, when I board a BA jet in Tokyo I'm halfway home, but when I board one of those big old Iranair 747s at Heathrow, I'm halfway to Tehran while still at the gate at T3. And it's interesting to see how the people you're going to visit "play airline" (in case you wondered, Iran does it with old-school style and very tidy flying; on the other hand, once was enough on Alitalia - next time I visit Italy I'll revert to post #12 and fly the flag, that is, the Union flag).


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Quoting Hawker (Thread starter):
Maybe it only countries where the citizens like to travel a lot that want a corrresponding reliable link with home?

That's very true. Its really nice when you've been away from home for a long time cause its makes you feel that bit closer. With the US though while you have a lot of airlines you do have 'hometown airlines' if that makes any sense, like Delta if you live in Atlanta or Northwest if your in the Twin Cities I suppose.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

Quoting Hawker (Thread starter):
Similarly in Britian there is an emotional attachment to BA.

Also in Germany , German love their Airline !

Quoting Hawker (Thread starter):
Maybe it only countries where the citizens like to travel a lot that want a corrresponding reliable link with home?

Speaking for LH I think it´s this link with the World ... and most people like to fly ...


Konstantin


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5354 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 18):

Though I´ve seen many Germans specially on A.de who to seem great or interesting almost hate LH ...

Pretty strange guys ....

I was there and get bashed because of having LH in my U-Name ...
 Yeah sure  Yeah sure


Konstantin


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27307 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting Shuggie (Reply 1):
The national airline carries the flag of the country and represents them abroad and is seen by the world as a symbol of that nations identity. Most countries **sweeping generalistion coming up** have one major airline that dominates the others abroad and it stands to reason that a nation will want to see that airline succeed, it's like supporting your country's team in The World Cup

Yeah I agree with that also. Although as time goes on it is changing but historically it was part of your countries pride and joy. I have to say though when I step on a OA plane in LHR it feels like im in Greece already and its familiar. I also agree with another post that some airlines play on this and fleece you with high fares!!! As I said its all changing now.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5308 times:

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 17):
With the US though while you have a lot of airlines you do have 'hometown airlines' if that makes any sense, like Delta if you live in Atlanta or Northwest if your in the Twin Cities I suppose.

That's incredibly true. Take American and Continental down in Dallas and Houston. Not only for people who live in the hub cities either. Take some of the smaller cities as well. Down in central Florida, people seem quite loyal to DL, and down in South Florida, people are quite loyal to American. Up here in Montana, Billings people are pretty much split between UA and NW, who seem to be the most consistent links, while people in Butte are very loyal to DL.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineMaddog888 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5277 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 12):
but I love boarding a BA 747 ....because.....[(b) I'm halfway home already,

For me, I find that the reverse is true for the similar reason to your reply 16. Whenever I go on holiday I like to go on one of that countries airlines as it feels like I am on holiday as soon as I board the plane.Whereas if I am on a UK airline the holiday doesn't seem to start until I am out of the airport at the destination.


[quote=Cedarjet,reply=12] (c) it's a matter of class and taste. I fly British Airways.

for class and taste you obviously don't fly BA Y-class - sardines aren't allowed to be treated like that. I will only fly BA in WT+ (or C - on the rare occasions I can afford it.... or when I can find someone else to foot the bill  Wink ).


J


User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5255 times:

national airlines are quite nice, they usually dont cut on budget, and make you feel like you're king....TK is a national airline and we basically are told that we represent the turkish flag overseas, which is why we can't joke about on the PA and make funny announcements etc, and in a way it's cool to be professional, and a rep for your country....


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3334 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 5204 times:

Other than the obvious emotional reasons, brand loyalty to your nation's flag-carrier, literally flying-the-flag, supporting the home side etc, there are very good rational reasons for doing so. Your national carrier will provide crew that speak your language in your idiom/accent, cuisine and wines etc that are comforting and familiar, provide knowledge of home (how the All Blacks pre World Cup training is going) so there is a plethora of reasons for their continued support.

Many national airlines (most in the economically affluent parts of the world) are now privatised, but still carry the heritage, legacy and support of their previous national status and this is mostly because they continue to specialise in the service of one particular market. In our case, NZ specialises in getting people to and from New Zealand, they are responsible for bringing a helluva lot of foreign exchange into our economy and they give foreigners a good taste of New Zealand hospitality before they land on our shores (and allows Kiwis to feel at home before they actually get there).

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
25 EFHK : After spending two weeks in Australia, it just made me so proud to see Finnair signs at Singapore airport. There I was on the other side of the world
26 Aerokiwi : I'd put it down to an ingrained sense of insecurity within a country's/regions's collective psyche. I' ve also been guilty of it in the past (with Air
27 Abrelosojos : = Very good analysis. Read my post above. Cheers, A.
28 Caymanair : National carriers are also a very big security device and an insurance policy in many cases. Take Cayman for example (i know that one best). Cayman Ai
29 Ktachiya : Well I can't really say in the instance of the US because there are so many large carriers but I think in Japan, a majorty of the people do have the i
30 TruemanQLD : QANTAS has been the Australian identity for many years and to see it sold off to you Americans would be a worst nightmare for most Australians. It has
31 Post contains images Kevin777 : And you should be proud, too.. I feel the same way about, for instance, SAS - but also other airlines in some cases. I remember in the good old days,
32 Post contains images Standby87 : My Economics Lecturer taught us this and I still remember it: "When a new country breaks free of Colonial rule, the first thing it does is build an ar
33 MotorHussy : And these days it's breaking free of post colonial tyrannical rule and the options have become Boeing or Airbus which in turn represent the contempor
34 Post contains images Andaman : I have experienced the same. Personally always not the biggest fan of Finnair, but it was so nice to see their cool "Panda" tv commercial on TV in Ho
35 Post contains links WSOY : Sorry, but the trade mark owner is presently the U.S. giant Brown-Forman. http://www.brown-forman.com/brands/
36 Post contains images Eham : We as Dutch already sold our national airline to Air France ...
37 Post contains images Rivet42 : How odd to argue that 'national' airlines somehow provide better economic growth, more jobs and more inward tourism that independent airlines! I think
38 Ken777 : Sometimes pure, isolated economic efficiencies are not the goal, as noted by Caymanair's post on KX. Each country determines what is in their best in
39 Post contains images Andaman : " target=_blank>http://www.brown-forman.com/brands/ Yes I know, but it's still made in Finland And NOKIA shareholders are mainly outside Finland.
40 Post contains images RICARIZA : I completely share that feeling. I want Avianca to succeed and as many of you have said, it represents the country, it is like a big an beautiful amba
41 Viscount724 : You mean that QF has never had a fatal accident involving a JET aircraft. QF had several fatal accidents in their earlier years involving piston engi
42 Caymanair : However what I was saying is that in some cases (like Cayman) there would be no private interests to take the position of public ones. Also, private
43 LGAtoIND : Here are some thoughts from an American point of view: 1. Foreigners tend to be more loyal than Americans to their "flag carriers," or so it seems. My
44 FlyDreamliner : NW may be the oldest, and I believe UA has again gotten out ahead of it in terms of Asian service. To most Americans, I think UA is recognized more t
45 Bobnwa : I think if the foreign ownership laws were relaxed, BA would buy AA in a heartbeat.
46 Post contains images Avianca : not only on a.de even moderators on airliners.net
47 Post contains images SwissA330 : Same over here in Switzerland. Funny thing how perception of the national airline changed!! Everybody loved Swissair, and there was great uproar when
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