LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6900 times:
I am quite sure that info about this flight and the chartered company was done in a way to limit public disclosure for obvious reasons. The company is probably a private company, perhaps one set up for the the US Government with a front name to protect them from any political or economic retaliation, the security of Mr. Hicks and the people transporting him. One also has to consider that Mr. Hicks is on every commercial flight no-fly list in the world, his transport was from a site that is a political no-mans-land, couldn't be transported via the USA, and just to prevent embarrassing questions, then there was no real other options.
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8998 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6687 times:
Quoting Peh (Reply 7):
You have to be right. There's no way a company leasing private jets can afford not to have website. In fact, there's no mention of them on the web at all. Very suspicious.
I think it is all legit, it would be part of the Atlantic Aviation Flight Services fleet, it is common for corporate jets to have a LLC as a holding company to own the aircraft for legal liability and tax reasons.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6480 times:
Quoting SW733 (Reply 8): TIME WORKS LEASING LLC (TETERBORO NJ)
This flight is not available for tracking per request from the owner/operator
I live about 3-4 miles from Teterboro, NJ airport (TEB), one of the biggest biz jet base airports in the USA, so I am not surprised at a corporate base there. As suggested above, Time Works Leasing LLC is probably a specially constructed subsidiary of a larger company for security, ownership or ownership hiding, tax and/or legitimate business reasons.
I am also not surprised at the request to not have a flight tracked as in this case for obvious security reasons, but I assume it could be done at the request of any customer of a charter flight for business or corporate security reasons. A Fortune 500 class company may not want to disclose the travel of the CEO, top executives or their families for security reasons. In the past, investors would attempt to track certain charter flights involving corporate executives or financial services companies to get advanced lead of a big financial deals, like a corporate takeover or possibility of it so that they could make money on.
Tomascubero From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2005, 525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 6242 times:
It's odd, the last flight conducted with the N number inside FAA airspace was:
TN90AM GLF5 TEB 22:30 MIA 00:56 05-18-2007
I know a fail-safe method to track Blocked aircraft if you know the tail number and on a query with N90AM from the 13th to the 20th of May, that is the only flight returned. From MIA it must have gone to Guantanamo, then Tahiti and finally to Australia.
This is very possibly a US Govt plane since its not the first time I've seen at SJO some nice G-V's and Global Express with a Civil registration but flying with an akward callsign, and then leaving with the registration. There are some very weird movements with some of these jets and I wouldn't be surprised it flew with a military or govt. callsign on the flight to Australia.
Corey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6176 times:
N90AM is Time Warner (aka Time Works or whatever it's called)... Gorgeous plane and is usually flying celebs and stuff around so I HIGHLY doubt this aircraft is the one carting a convicted terrorist around... Perhaps your friend got their source wrong as I really can't picture a company like Time Warner letting someone use their aircraft like this?
Edit: As Zeke points out, I believe this aircraft is available for charter from AAFS, so who knows... certainly a nice way to fly
Just what I was able to find on the airplane in a few minutes. I don't think it would part of that small fleet that the CIA uses to fly people around the world because most likely the Australian government took control of him when he stepped on to the plane so they would have chartered the airplane.
WorkFlyer From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5998 times:
Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17): It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance
If the US government had not placed a bar on him flying via US airspace he could have flown commercial via LAX.
The Gulfstream was the only thing available save using an airforce plane from either Australia or the USA, and the cost of one of these on such a flight would have been far greater than the op costs of the Gulfstream. It has the range to cover the distance with fewer stops than a smaller Biz Jet.
Goodbye From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 913 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5775 times:
Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 14): HIGHLY doubt this aircraft is the one carting a convicted terrorist around...
He is not a convicted terrorist. He pleaded guilty to "providing material support for terrorism", which does not make him a terrorist. And after 5 years stuck in that hell hole being subjected to god knows what, wouldn't you plead guilty if it meant you got to go home?
Quetzal From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5628 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 1): The person pleaded guilty, and was convicted, why call him a suspect ?
If you were illegally held without trial for 5 years and subjected to mental torture, would you plead guilty? You'd say anything to get your ass out of there.... ever heard of duress?
When you say convicted you conveniently leave out the Kangaroo court part of the story.
Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17): Putting "Mr." before someone's name indicates respect. He certainly deserves none.
Mr Hicks has been put on record as saying that he will not try and profit from the ordeal that the US and Australian government has put him through..... that surely commands some respect?
If I were him I'd be telling my story so that places like Guantanamo are never allowed to happen again.
Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17): It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance.
Yep, a real tough gig for those guys looking after Mr Hicks.....
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21556 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4544 times:
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11): am also not surprised at the request to not have a flight tracked as in this case for obvious security reasons, but I assume it could be done at the request of any customer of a charter flight for business or corporate security reasons. A Fortune 500 class company may not want to disclose the travel of the CEO, top executives or their families for security reasons. In the past, investors would attempt to track certain charter flights involving corporate executives or financial services companies to get advanced lead of a big financial deals, like a corporate takeover or possibility of it so that they could make money on.
Many operators do hide their flights. I know Proctor & Gamble and Coca-Cola do.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Koruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3846 times:
I don't think that there should be any place for politics on this forum.
By all means talk about the plane, or the transit at Tahiti or whatever.
And if you have to bring politics into it, make sure you get your facts right. Hicks is a guy who used to have nasty friends: he is a mentally subnormal man whose military fantasies saw him fight on the same side as the West in Bosnia in support of the Moslems but he then got sucked into more and more extreme Islam until he went to join the Taleban.
That's not something to be proud of, but he's not a "terror suspect" and has not been convicted of terrorism. He plea-bargained that he supported the terrorists. A significant part of the population of London and Bradford in the UK, or Marseilles in France or goodness knows where else would be similarly guilty if other countries actually made it an offence to support the bad guys.
And anyway, one side's "bad guys" are the other side's heroes. I would be horrified if Australians or Americans were refused carriage from Europe to Asia because the countries they would overfly considered their countries' support for Israel to be material support for terrorism. That would be an outrage.
Stick to planes and airports. The world is a fragile place at the moment, and this forum should be a refuge from that.