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Terror Suspect's First Class Ride  
User currently offlinePeh From Australia, joined Nov 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7439 times:

Australian terror suspect, David Hicks, arrived home today in a chartered Gulfstream Jet. It left Cuba and stopped in Tahiti for refueling.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200705/r144739_505443.jpg

I'm trying to track down the registration number so that I can learn a little more about it (ie: chartered from whom?).

Can anyone out there help me?


Flown: ATR72, DASH 8, 737, 747, 767, 777, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, MD80
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7413 times:

Quoting Peh (Thread starter):
Australian terror suspect, David Hicks,

The person pleaded guilty, and was convicted, why call him a suspect ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinePeh From Australia, joined Nov 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

Good point !

He only pleaded guilty recently. The whole process has been so drawn out that "terror suspect" has become part of his name.

The sentence should have read "confessed terrorist conspirator etc etc". Thanks



Flown: ATR72, DASH 8, 737, 747, 767, 777, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, MD80
User currently offlinePeh From Australia, joined Nov 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

OK. I've managed to track it down with the help of a new friend. The registration is N90AM and it seems to belong to a company called Time Works Leasing. It's seen mainly in Northern America.

[Edited 2007-05-20 12:01:25]


Flown: ATR72, DASH 8, 737, 747, 767, 777, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, MD80
User currently offlinePeh From Australia, joined Nov 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Now, this is strange. I've googled Time Works Leasing and there's nothing there. It's odd that such a company doesn't have a presence on the web.

Has anyone ever heard of them?



Flown: ATR72, DASH 8, 737, 747, 767, 777, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, MD80
User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 7121 times:

Quoting Peh (Reply 4):
Now, this is strange. I've googled Time Works Leasing and there's nothing there. It's odd that such a company doesn't have a presence on the web.

Has anyone ever heard of them?

Wouldn't be surprising if that was just a "front company" for a government agency.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13199 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 7005 times:

I am quite sure that info about this flight and the chartered company was done in a way to limit public disclosure for obvious reasons. The company is probably a private company, perhaps one set up for the the US Government with a front name to protect them from any political or economic retaliation, the security of Mr. Hicks and the people transporting him. One also has to consider that Mr. Hicks is on every commercial flight no-fly list in the world, his transport was from a site that is a political no-mans-land, couldn't be transported via the USA, and just to prevent embarrassing questions, then there was no real other options.

User currently offlinePeh From Australia, joined Nov 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 6922 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
The company is probably a private company, perhaps one set up for the the US Government

You have to be right. There's no way a company leasing private jets can afford not to have website. In fact, there's no mention of them on the web at all. Very suspicious.



Flown: ATR72, DASH 8, 737, 747, 767, 777, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, MD80
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6819 times:

If you try to track that tail number on flightaware, you get this message....

TIME WORKS LEASING LLC (TETERBORO NJ)
This flight is not available for tracking per request from the owner/operator


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6792 times:

Quoting Peh (Reply 7):

You have to be right. There's no way a company leasing private jets can afford not to have website. In fact, there's no mention of them on the web at all. Very suspicious.

I think it is all legit, it would be part of the Atlantic Aviation Flight Services fleet, it is common for corporate jets to have a LLC as a holding company to own the aircraft for legal liability and tax reasons.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6668 times:

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...egsearch=N90AM&distinct_entry=true

[Edited 2007-05-20 16:57:39]

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13199 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6585 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 8):
TIME WORKS LEASING LLC (TETERBORO NJ)
This flight is not available for tracking per request from the owner/operator

I live about 3-4 miles from Teterboro, NJ airport (TEB), one of the biggest biz jet base airports in the USA, so I am not surprised at a corporate base there. As suggested above, Time Works Leasing LLC is probably a specially constructed subsidiary of a larger company for security, ownership or ownership hiding, tax and/or legitimate business reasons.
I am also not surprised at the request to not have a flight tracked as in this case for obvious security reasons, but I assume it could be done at the request of any customer of a charter flight for business or corporate security reasons. A Fortune 500 class company may not want to disclose the travel of the CEO, top executives or their families for security reasons. In the past, investors would attempt to track certain charter flights involving corporate executives or financial services companies to get advanced lead of a big financial deals, like a corporate takeover or possibility of it so that they could make money on.


User currently offlineTomascubero From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2005, 525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6347 times:

It's odd, the last flight conducted with the N number inside FAA airspace was:

TN90AM GLF5 TEB 22:30 MIA 00:56 05-18-2007

I know a fail-safe method to track Blocked aircraft if you know the tail number and on a query with N90AM from the 13th to the 20th of May, that is the only flight returned. From MIA it must have gone to Guantanamo, then Tahiti and finally to Australia.

This is very possibly a US Govt plane since its not the first time I've seen at SJO some nice G-V's and Global Express with a Civil registration but flying with an akward callsign, and then leaving with the registration. There are some very weird movements with some of these jets and I wouldn't be surprised it flew with a military or govt. callsign on the flight to Australia.

Regards,
Tomas.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Quoting Peh (Reply 4):
I've googled Time Works Leasing and there's nothing there. It's odd that such a company doesn't have a presence on the web.

Dozens of business jets are registered to paper companies that have no website or other public presence other than usually a lawyer's office that takes care of the paperwork.


User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6281 times:

N90AM is Time Warner (aka Time Works or whatever it's called)... Gorgeous plane and is usually flying celebs and stuff around so I HIGHLY doubt this aircraft is the one carting a convicted terrorist around... Perhaps your friend got their source wrong as I really can't picture a company like Time Warner letting someone use their aircraft like this?

Edit: As Zeke points out, I believe this aircraft is available for charter from AAFS, so who knows... certainly a nice way to fly

[Edited 2007-05-20 23:41:29]

User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

Quoting Peh (Reply 4):
Has anyone ever heard of them?

I'm sure the CIA have.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineReins485 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

Well on this site it says there are two Gulfstream G-IV and one Piper is registered at that address.

http://www.planedesire.com/aircraft/desire/N90AM/details.html

Click on the street address and it will pull up the other three planes and then I went to another site that says those airplanes are owned by 711 Air Corp.

http://www.aircraftone.com/aircraft/...fstream_aerospace_g_iv_3980115.asp

Just what I was able to find on the airplane in a few minutes. I don't think it would part of that small fleet that the CIA uses to fly people around the world because most likely the Australian government took control of him when he stepped on to the plane so they would have chartered the airplane.
Alex

[Edited 2007-05-21 00:33:44]

User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1619 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
One also has to consider that Mr. Hicks

Putting "Mr." before someone's name indicates respect. He certainly deserves none.

Of course, most men riding in a G-V command it.

It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance.

M


User currently offlineWorkFlyer From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6103 times:

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17):
It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance

If the US government had not placed a bar on him flying via US airspace he could have flown commercial via LAX.

The Gulfstream was the only thing available save using an airforce plane from either Australia or the USA, and the cost of one of these on such a flight would have been far greater than the op costs of the Gulfstream. It has the range to cover the distance with fewer stops than a smaller Biz Jet.


User currently offlineGoodbye From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 913 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 14):
HIGHLY doubt this aircraft is the one carting a convicted terrorist around...

He is not a convicted terrorist. He pleaded guilty to "providing material support for terrorism", which does not make him a terrorist. And after 5 years stuck in that hell hole being subjected to god knows what, wouldn't you plead guilty if it meant you got to go home?


User currently offlineQuetzal From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5733 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 1):
The person pleaded guilty, and was convicted, why call him a suspect ?

If you were illegally held without trial for 5 years and subjected to mental torture, would you plead guilty? You'd say anything to get your ass out of there.... ever heard of duress?
When you say convicted you conveniently leave out the Kangaroo court part of the story.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17):
Putting "Mr." before someone's name indicates respect. He certainly deserves none.

Mr Hicks has been put on record as saying that he will not try and profit from the ordeal that the US and Australian government has put him through..... that surely commands some respect?
If I were him I'd be telling my story so that places like Guantanamo are never allowed to happen again.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17):
It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance.

Yep, a real tough gig for those guys looking after Mr Hicks.....



No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21865 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
am also not surprised at the request to not have a flight tracked as in this case for obvious security reasons, but I assume it could be done at the request of any customer of a charter flight for business or corporate security reasons. A Fortune 500 class company may not want to disclose the travel of the CEO, top executives or their families for security reasons. In the past, investors would attempt to track certain charter flights involving corporate executives or financial services companies to get advanced lead of a big financial deals, like a corporate takeover or possibility of it so that they could make money on.

Many operators do hide their flights. I know Proctor & Gamble and Coca-Cola do.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5869 posts, RR: 39
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

http://www.adagold.com/

that's the company you're looking for....

Quoting Peh (Reply 2):
The sentence should have read "confessed terrorist conspirator etc etc". Thanks

wrong again..time for you to get educated before commenting on the subject and making yourself look like a novice.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3951 times:

I don't think that there should be any place for politics on this forum.

By all means talk about the plane, or the transit at Tahiti or whatever.

And if you have to bring politics into it, make sure you get your facts right. Hicks is a guy who used to have nasty friends: he is a mentally subnormal man whose military fantasies saw him fight on the same side as the West in Bosnia in support of the Moslems but he then got sucked into more and more extreme Islam until he went to join the Taleban.

That's not something to be proud of, but he's not a "terror suspect" and has not been convicted of terrorism. He plea-bargained that he supported the terrorists. A significant part of the population of London and Bradford in the UK, or Marseilles in France or goodness knows where else would be similarly guilty if other countries actually made it an offence to support the bad guys.

And anyway, one side's "bad guys" are the other side's heroes. I would be horrified if Australians or Americans were refused carriage from Europe to Asia because the countries they would overfly considered their countries' support for Israel to be material support for terrorism. That would be an outrage.

Stick to planes and airports. The world is a fragile place at the moment, and this forum should be a refuge from that.


User currently offlineBiman From Bangladesh, joined Sep 2006, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 24):
The world is a fragile place at the moment

Hear hear!!


25 Post contains images N710PS : I echo the sentiments of others to keep the politics out of it because when I get on my rant I will not stop.
26 Jbernie : for better or worse the transport of Hicks was limited to very very few options, given the inability to fly over US airspace it reduces the possibilit
27 Peh : Man! That's a huge statement from someone who knows me by nothing more than a pseudonym. I'll just assume that you're having a bad day and you're not
28 Post contains links Peh : http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...1287&filename=11797424247wzmUJ.jpg The plot thickens. The Australian media is reporting that the aircraft was l
29 Tomascubero : Obviously the govt. can do whatever they want with registration names and they could might have just used this jet for this purpose. As I said before
30 Viscount724 : Excerpt from today's Washington Post: Opposition leaders called secrecy surrounding Hicks's 22-hour charter flight, which cost Australia about $500,0
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