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Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?  
User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7025 times:

Here's something that came to mind: Would it be wise for Airbus to give up its long-range aircrafts (i.e. the A380, A340 programs) and focus on its short-range aircrafts which seem to be quite successful (not to say that the long-range ones aren't). It seems like airlines are interested in its short-range family, so why not focus on it? make the best aircraft it can be, with the latest technology, efficiency, etc...? I wonder how it would work out. Just a thought, don't kill me for it  Silly

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineReality From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7009 times:

And Boeing should do the same? Why just Airbus?

.

.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7009 times:
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Quoting B777A340Fan (Thread starter):
Would it be wise for Airbus to give up its long-range aircrafts (i.e. the A380, A340 programs) and focus on its short-range aircrafts (A320).

Absolutely not. Having a complete family of planes available for sale is what helped Airbus achieve the success they did. When they just built the A300 and A310, they were a niche manufacturer like Lockheed (and to a lesser extent, McDonnell-Douglas). Going back to just the A320 would soon make them irrelevant and vulnerable to Embraer, to say nothing of Russia and the Chinese.


User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Quoting Reality (Reply 1):
And Boeing should do the same? Why just Airbus?

Because Boeing is actually getting some success with it.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6586 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 3):
Because Boeing is actually getting some success with it.

I would assume that you're trying to pick a little fight here, however I will pretend that you are not, but just a little  blockhead  :
 Smile

http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries/
Airbus total widebody orders (not included the month of May 2007): 2167


User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6551 times:

Quoting Chiad (Reply 4):
Airbus total widebody orders (not included the month of May 2007): 2167

To be fair, lately they have seen very few, in fact, if you count the 380 cancellations, they are barely in the positive.

They dont need to give up though, they need to get it right. I would seriously question the 380 program if they lose 2 or more customers and do not gain 2 or more a year, which I really do not know how likely that scenario is.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 5):
if you count the 380 cancellations

How many frames and customers does that add up to?



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6447 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 6):
How many frames and customers does that add up to?

Here is what someone else posted on the orders thread based on estinates of actual prices not list:

A330 net 6 @ $112 Million = $0.672 Billion
A340-300 net 6 @ &120 Million = $0.720 Billion
A340-500/600 net 2 @ $148 Million = $0.296 Billion
A350-900 net 2 @ $116 Million = $0.232 Billion
A380 net MINUS 10 @ $190 Million= MINUS $1.900 Billion

Total = $20K

Airbus' widebody business is in need of a big shot in the arm, and it doies not seem like it will come form the 380 program. Strong 330/340 sales and deliveries are all they really have to rely on. A trickle of 380s and deposits on 350s will not allow them to gain ground.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6422 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 6):
How many frames and customers does that add up to?

Are you asking about A380 cancellations?

FX =10
ILFC =5
5X =10

total =25 for with 3 carriers.

As for the topic... Its a mute point and off the wall. A vs B fight posted by the thread starter and needs to be suggested for deletion.

Clearly one is not up to par on competition and not a monopoly.

[Edited 2007-05-21 22:19:47]


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
As for the topic... Its a mute point and off the wall. A vs B fight posted by the thread starter and needs to be suggested for deletion.

I disagree, I really did not take it as A vs B, but a good business management question.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Clearly one is not up to par on competition and not a monopoly.

Actually Airbus was beating par with the 330/340 combo and the 380 program single handed put them at a handicap keeping the golf analogy.

If you look at revenue, Boeing has had a near monopoly for the last year and a half. Airbus just needs to get the 350 right, it does not even have to be as good as the 787 but it has to beat the 777. If they can land somewhere in between in size and technology, they will make a lot of money, and that is all that matters. Not taking the 787 on head to head was a wise decision, the 777s smaller market is prime for competition, and the smaller 350 will compete nicely with the larger 787 on a lot of missions. They have loyal customers, and those relationships will tip the scales towards them enough to make a decent 350 a hot seller.

They now have the plane, they just need to execute. The problem is the Albajet, a name I heard and seems appropriate until the 380 stops bringing airbus down.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5052 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Are you asking about A380 cancellations?

FX =10
ILFC =5
5X =10

ILFC hasn't cancelled any A380s.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
FX =10
ILFC =5
5X =10

+ 9 additional SQ
+ 8 additional QF
+ 4 additional EK

Not much and only additional orders but still........



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineAirways45 From United Kingdom, joined May 2000, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 3):
Quoting Reality (Reply 1):
And Boeing should do the same? Why just Airbus?

Because Boeing is actually getting some success with it.

So, should GM and Ford pack up and close down Detroit and leave it all to Toyota?

Or, should GM and Ford fight back? Airbus needs to sort itself out not throw in the towel.

And, the airlines need two strong suppliers. It's in nobody's interest to have one dominant player.

Airways45


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 10):
I disagree, I really did not take it as A vs B, but a good business management question.

No it's not at all... Its a A vs B thread clearly.
You want a good healthy competition across the board for any industry.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 10):
Boeing has had a near monopoly for the last year and a half.

Really?

Boeing gross orders =1050 2006 (of which 729) were 737 orders! Guess Boeing should do the same huh?
Boeing gross orders =1029 2005 (of which 569) were 737 orders!
total in 2yrs 2079 gross orders.

Airbus gross orders =824 2006
Airbus gross orders =1111 2005
total in 2yrs 1935 gross orders.

The difference is about 144 a/c... Hardly a Boeing monopoly.

[Edited 2007-05-21 22:49:16]

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:00:49]


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6235 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 11):
ILFC hasn't cancelled any A380s.

You are correct... They switched A380F's to A380 passenger.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5943 times:

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 12):

So, should GM and Ford pack up and close down Detroit and leave it all to Toyota?

Oh dear, comparatively, GM and Ford are in far worst shape vis a vis the auto industry than is Airbus in the aviation industry. GM and Ford simply cannot compete with the Japanese b/c a) they don't have a good product b) their costs are way more than the japanese c) their reliability is not as good. While this isn't a thread for the auto industry, GM and Ford are in big doo doo and need more revamp than Airbus. If you want a better analogy, take into consideration the recent Daimler Chrysler divorce. Would Daimler sell its Chrysler division if it was successful and making money? No! Daimler lost billions of dollars just so it could reduce its losses. When you see a problematic area, you cut it so it won't bring down the whole ship. Same thing with Airbus that I was suggesting. Again, JUST a suggestion and a mere hypothetical topic up for discussion. I'd be dammed if I live to see the long-haul airbus family die off.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):
No it's not at all... Its a A vs B thread clearly.
You want a good healthy competition across the board for any industry.

Let's not make it into an immature A vs. B thread, which was not the original intent. I was merely asking the feasibility of such endeavor. Not to say that Airbus and/or Boeing is better than one another.


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5742 times:

Hi!

I think that's " a good idea ", Airbus "drops" all their long-range a/c program! But then Boeing must drop their shor/medium range program too to be fare!
Regards


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5695 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 15):
Let's not make it into an immature A vs. B thread, which was not the original intent. I was merely asking the feasibility of such endeavor.

If this was about Boeing it would have been deleted within 5 minutes. 100% sure.Luckely not everyone is as alllergic..

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):
Boeing gross orders =1050 2006 (of which 729) were 737 orders! Guess Boeing should do the same huh?
Boeing gross orders =1029 2005 (of which 569) were 737 orders!
total in 2yrs 2079 gross orders.

Airbus gross orders =824 2006
Airbus gross orders =1111 2005
total in 2yrs 1935 gross orders.

Take 5 yrs..


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):
No it's not at all... Its a A vs B thread clearly.
You want a good healthy competition across the board for any industry.

Then why suggest it?

I would ask people to cast their minds back about 5 years. The 747 revamps failed to gain support. The 767 was over the hill, loosing ground to the A330 bloody rapidly. The 777 and the A340 were more evenly matched. Boeing was having major managerial problmes, and had lost focus.

Then they got it right wth the 787 (off to a slow start, I might add). Fuel prices started rising, tipping the balance over to the 77W/772ER over the A346. (One should bear in mind that the A346 initially outsold the 77L family by a significant margin).

Airbus is going through a difficult time. It is lucky to be able to depend on the A320 and A330 in the interm. BUT these products will need to be replaced. Airbus MUST keep Boeings Y1 in mind when developing the A350, any sip in the A350 will mean the A320NG will be way behind its Boeing counterpart.

So, no, Airbus should not drop its widebody aircraft. But it needs to remember where its bread and butter are, and that is the A320 family.

Brian.



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User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3090 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 5):
they are barely in the positive

Yet, still they are in positive.

Remember, happy customers with Airbus widebodies, are more likely to order Airbus narrowbodies. A lot of the narrowbodies are on order by airlines that have airbus widebodies. Does anybody see the link?

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineDistantHorizon From Portugal, joined Oct 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Hi guys!

This is not a serious discussion, is it?

I assume it is not.

Why doesn't Boeing give up their 777 program? They haven't sold many lately. It is becoming a dead aircraft.
Why doesn't Boeing give up their 747 program? 20 or 30 frames are not enough to justify it!
Why doesn't Boeing concentrate their efforts in a second 787 line? It seems it will turn out to be their salvation!

Those are some non-serious questions that could be included in a non-serious thread! Just for fun!

Don't you agree with me?  Smile

DH


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5166 times:
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There's only one way this thread can go so let's stop it here and now. Thank you


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